Kolasis - William Barclay

[Ronald Nolette]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

When Christ “appeared” to the Apostles, they could only see Him “in the flesh” (literally and spiritually). It was at that time when the Apostles received the Early Rain of the Spirit and made a confession of faith (John 6:67-69).

We can know this is when the Apostles received the Early Rain because of what this verse states:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

We can also know that the Apostles remained spiritually blind at that time because of what Christ said to them in Mark 8:15-21:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

Then, in the very next four verses, Christ answers His own question:

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town (called out from the world); and when he had spit on his eyes (represents the Early Rain), and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes (represents the Latter Rain), and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

And just as the Apostles could only see Christ in the flesh after receiving the Early Rain, so do all new believers. This happens because the Early Rain does not heal a new believer’s spiritual blindness or destroy their carnality. As a result, Christ only appears to them in a carnal way (“in the flesh”).

Because a new believer doesn’t understand or believe what I stated above, they will deny that Christ ever came to them in the flesh. They will deny that they have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit which has left them carnal in their understanding of God’s Word (Christ). They simply don’t believe the concept of “first comes the natural, then comes the spiritual” (1Cor 15:46) as it applies to their salvation. They have been told by the apostate church and believe that it is only necessary for Christ to come to them one-time to be converted and saved. They are blind to the truth taught by God’s Word that Christ must come two times before a person is converted and saved.

Summary: The first time Christ comes a person, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. But because they remain spiritually blind, Christ will only appear to them “in the flesh” (the natural). The second time Christ comes to a person, Christ will give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the second coming of Christ, Christ will heal the person’s spiritual blindness. As a result, Christ will then spiritually appear to them (the spiritual).

The time a believer spends in between the Early and Latter Rains is typed by Elijah’s 3 ½ years of drought. During that time, the believer will come under the deceptions of Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ and become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). At this time, they will fall from grace. While under Satan’s deceptions, the believer will mistakenly think that they are saved by Christ’s first and only appearance to them. They will not realize that Christ did not give them the baptism of the Spirit (Latter Rain) when He came but only give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Because this truth is concealed from them, they will deny that Christ ever came to them “in the flesh” (Early Rain).

This is what the “type” in 1John is actually teaching.

Joe

No John was not using some mystical type, but dealing with real life hersies afflicting the church. sorry you feel compelled to rewrite teh Scripture.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I have trouble because you are writing your own opinions which you call the bible but are not!

Sorry but the Apsotle Johyn was writing about a growing heresy called gnosticism which denied that the Messiah/Christ came in human flesh, because they said flesh was evil. You have rewritten what teh apostle wrote for some non biblical doctrine.

Dear Ronald Nolette,
The words John wrote were the words of Christ and not his own. The event that John related in 1John is a "type" which teaches a spiritual truth concerning the apostasy of the church. Both Paul and Peter also wrote about the coming apostasy of the church. Christ talked about it in the gospels, too. You should not take what they said lightly.

Since the end of the 1st century, the churches fell prey to the wolves. Since that time, the church has waxed worse and worse over the centuries. Nothing has changed even to this day. The churches in this world (all 2,000 different denominations/sects) barely teach any truth. They have become places where the blind lead the blind. None of their main doctrines are true. Some have a little truth mixed into them, but most are completely false. When you compare their doctrines with what scripture actually teaches, the contradictions are astounding.

Christ taught about the coming apostasy in this one verse parable:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven (deceptions of Satan), which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The leaven is hidden in the bread so that when a new believer consumes this bread, they become deceived without realizing it - that is the nature of deception. A person cannot know that they are deceived while they are being deceived. That knowledge will only come to them after they come out from the deception.

Christ taught about the apostasy in this parable, too:

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds (unclean spirits) of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

These two parables I quoted above match up with what Christ said in Mat 12:43-45 about the seven unclean spirits.

Every new believer since the coming of the spirit of anti-Christ near the end of the 1st century has consumed Satan's leavened bread and has had birds come and nest in their tree. No one is so special that they can void this happening to them. Even the very Elect (the Apostles) would have fallen prey to Satan if they had not been converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the world.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Because all Elect believers since the end of the 1st century will fall prey to Satan, they will all eventually "see" the Abomination of Desolation when they come out from Satan's deceptions. This happens after Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain. It is only at that time that they are given "eyes that can see".

That is why Christ said this when teaching about His second coming to His Elect:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

Since the 1st century, every Elect believer has seen the Abomination of Desolation just before they were converted. If a believer does not see it before they die, they are not one of the Elect and will not be saved in this age. They will be resurrected to judgment with those same fallen away believers who John said "went out from us".

Since Christ is the Savior and does all the work of our salvation, we are at His mercy to open our eyes so that we can come out from Satan's deceptions. No individual believer has any "free will" ability to avoid Satan's deceptions and having the Abomination of Desolation occur within themselves. If you believe that you are an exception to what the scriptures above teach, then you are deceiving yourself. No one can avoid falling for Satan's deceptions. His deceptions are just too strong.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Joe

 

[The Learner]

I am tired, what was the subject?

 

[St. SteVen]

I am tired, what was the subject?

AIONIOS

Strong's Greek Search: AIONIOS

/

 

[The Learner]

AIONIOS

Strong's Greek Search: AIONIOS

/

Thank You St. SteVen

What are the basic tenats of Universalism?

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank You St. SteVen

What are the basic tenats of Universalism?

My pleasure. You are very welcome.
Glad you asked. Here it is in a nutshell. (from a nut case) - LOL

Universalism, or more specifically Christian Universalism, (not to be confused with Unitarian Universalism)
believes that all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf.
But this does not mean that anyone goes immediately to heaven at death of the physical body.

Those whom the Lord has already called (the Elect) to a restored relationship with himself
will technically have a head start in the afterlife. Though some may need quite a bit of work yet.
Everyone else will catch up before we enter the kingdom.

Christian Universalism is also known as Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, and Universal Redemption. (UR)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

@The Learner

Here are some main Universalism scriptures. (Ultimate Redemption)

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

/

 

[FaithWillDo]

My pleasure. You are very welcome.
Glad you asked. Here it is in a nutshell. (from a nut case) - LOL

Universalism, or more specifically Christian Universalism, (not to be confused with Unitarian Universalism)
believes that all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf.
But this does not mean that anyone goes immediately to heaven at death of the physical body.

Those whom the Lord has already called (the Elect) to a restored relationship with himself
will technically have a head start in the afterlife. Though some may need quite a bit of work yet.
Everyone else will catch up before we enter the kingdom.

Christian Universalism is also known as Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, and Universal Redemption. (UR)

/

Dear St. SteVen,
What you stated is in direct conflict with the teachings of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. That is why when people ask me if I am a "universalist", I tell them no. Universalism still mixes "works" with faith as the other denominations do. This is what Christ meant when He said that a person cannot serve two masters and be saved. Satan teaches the crooked way of "works" and Christ teaches the straight way of faith where He does 100% of the work of our salvation. The two cannot be mixed together.

Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (the Old Wine), when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

This happens to every called out believers shortly after they enter the church. Once in the church, they find that they still prefer the Old Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The Old Wine is the Old Covenant of Law is based on the man's work. This is the crooked way. The New Wine is the New Covenant of Grace through Faith which is based solely on the works of Christ. This is the straight way.

Also, the "many" who are called (but not chosen) will receive their portion with the unbelievers in the final age. Only the "few" who come out from the "many" will be saved in this age. They are the Elect. Before each of the Elect physically die, they will be fully converted into a child of God and will become like Christ. They will have nothing for Christ to complete in the final age.

Finally, no one has a "head start" in the final age when they are cast into the Lake of Fire for judgment. Both the many called but not chosen believers and the unbelievers will be judged by the Law for sins that they have committed. Death is the penalty of sin. Everyone cast into the Lake of Fire will be destroyed. There are no exceptions. That is why it is necessary for Christ to come to each person in the Lake of Fire and give them the gift of faith.

He will not omit to give them the gift of faith when He judges them:

Mat 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

With the faith Christ gives them, the pathway for God's Grace (manifested in Christ) to come to them will be made straight. When Christ comes, He will convert them into children of God by the same spiritual process that He converted the Elect. After the person is converted into a new child of God, they will be removed from the Lake of Fire and be gathered to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire and will suffer the penalty of the Law. By the end of the final age, all mankind will be destroyed but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Joe

 

[St. SteVen]

Dear St. SteVen,
What you stated is in direct conflict with the teachings of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. That is why when people ask me if I am a "universalist", I tell them no. Universalism still mixes "works" with faith as the other denominations do.

Not sure how you got that out of what I wrote, which included this:

Universalism, or more specifically Christian Universalism, (not to be confused with Unitarian Universalism)
believes that all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf.

See that? "... all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf."
Christ's work, not our work.

/

 

[FaithWillDo]

Not sure how you got that out of what I wrote, which included this:

See that? "... all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf."
Christ's work, not our work.

/

Dear St. SteVen,
You said:
All of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf.

No, mankind is not saved by the "finished work of the atonement". That is only a half truth. When Christ said "it is finished", He was only referring to His physical work under the Old Covenant.

This verse applies:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: (PART 1) I am come that they might have life, (PART 2) and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ's work of saving mankind has TWO PARTS to it.

The first part was accomplished under the Old Covenant of Law by His sacrifice on the cross (His atoning work). And just as the Old Covenant of Law is physical, so was Christ's work at the cross. From the physical work of Christ at the cross, Christ now has the legal authority to give all mankind "life". In other words, Christ earned the keys to death and hell.

This verse applies:

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

But life as we presently know it is not salvation. When Christ resurrects the "lost" in the final age, they will still be just as sinful and carnal as they were before.

Because "life" by itself is not salvation, Christ established the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. This is a spiritual covenant and the work which Christ does under it is spiritual work. When He completes His spiritual work within a person, they will be converted from being a child of the devil into being a child of God. In this way, Christ is completing the second part of our salvation (life more abundantly).

The concept stated in the verse below applies to the two parts of Christ's work:

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Think of it this way: The natural (physical) is outward and can be seen in the world by human eyes. This applies to the first part of Christ's work which He accomplished at the cross. The spiritual is within and happens between the ears so to speak. It cannot be seen with human eyes. This applies to the second part of Christ's work which He accomplishes within an individual.

When Christ said that His words are "spirit" (John 6:63), part of what Christ was saying is that His words apply spiritually (within) to an individual. However, because mankind is carnal, they will usually apply His words outwardly into the world rather than spiritually within a person. For example, all the end-time prophecies in scripture are actually describing spiritual events that happen within the Elect under the New Covenant. Those prophecies do not describe outward world events which supposedly happen at the end of this physical age. That is a carnal understanding of them and not a spiritual understanding. All the prophecies that are outward and physical have already been fulfilled under the Old Covenant. All the prophecies that remain are being fulfilled spiritually within an individual under the New Covenant.

For example, consider what Paul said here:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul teaches in the same way that Christ teaches and that is by words that are spirit. The "ends of the ages" is a spiritual phrase and must be applied within an individual. For that reason, Paul says that the "ends of the ages" have come upon the Elect now (meaning they come when an Elect person is converted). Paul is not teaching about the end of the physical age and neither did Christ when His apostles asked Him about the time of the end.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Not sure how you got that out of what I wrote, which included this:

See that? "... all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf."
Christ's work, not our work.

/

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

As for my comment about "works", from what I remember about your beliefs from previous threads, I believe you are still mixing in man's work with the spiritual work of Christ that He is now doing under the New Covenant.

I'll try to explain below:

In this age, Christ is only saving the people who have been chosen for salvation from the foundation of the world. If a person was not chosen by God before this creation began, they will not be saved in this age. The person has no say in the matter.

The beginning point for an Elect person's salvation in this age occurs when Christ first comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Elect person does not ask for Him to come nor does Christ ask for their permission. He comes solely because He chose to come at that time. With this small amount of the Spirit now indwelling the Elect person, they will now have a measure (small amount) of faith and certain spiritual gifts. However, this small amount of the Holy Spirit will leave them carnal and spiritually blind. Because of these spiritual flaws which remain in the person after they are "called out from the world" and into the church, Satan has no problem deceiving them.

After Christ has planted His seed of the Early Rain within the person, Satan will come at night (meaning while they are spiritually blind) and plant His seed, too. Satan's seed is the spirit of anti-Christ. This teaching comes from the farming analogy which is taught in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. With Satan's spirit and the Holy Spirit indwelling the same person, they will try to serve two masters. One master (Satan) teaches the person to approach God by their own works (the crooked way). The other master (Christ) teaches the person to approach God solely by faith, trusting in Christ to do all that is necessary to save them. Because the person is mixing the Old Wine with the New Wine, their divided house will fall (fall from grace). This is how Satan spiritually kills the saints:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The affliction that Christ is referring to in this verse comes from Satan and the spirit of anti-Christ. After the spirit of anti-Christ indwells the Elect believer, they will spiritually die.

This spiritual death is taught here, too:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

This death is what the Abomination of Desolation describes. It is a spiritual death in God's spiritual temple (the believer). It is not a physical death.

The Elect believer will remain in this lost and "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) spiritual condition (called a man of sin/seven headed beast) until Christ decides to "come again" to the Elect believer. When this time comes, Christ will send a person to them in the spirit of Elijah with a call to repent of their works. At this same time, Christ will increase the Elect believer's faith and cause them to repent. This happens solely because of the spiritual work of Christ within the Elect believer.

After they repent, the pathway will be made straight by the faith that Christ gave them. Christ will then come to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With this full amount of the Spirit, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will see the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves. When this happens, Christ tells them to flee to the mountains:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

The spiritual phrase "flee to the mountains" is related to the OT story of Lot which is a physical "type" that is spiritually fulfilled within the Elect. When a believer "sees" the Abomination of Desolation, it is the evidence that Christ has come to them and given them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer's spiritual blindness is healed and they are "born again". It is at this time that they are gathered to Heaven (spiritually speaking, not physically speaking).

Next, Christ will begin His judgment. To begin, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the carnal spiritual nature from within the believer.

These verses apply:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In verse 40, the phrase "two in the field" is actually ONE Elect believer (one flesh). The one taken from the believer is the spirit of anti-Christ (man of sin). The one who remains is the child of God.

In verse 41, the "two women" represent the two spiritual natures within the Elect believer. The one taken is the Great Harlot and the one who remains is the spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.

So where are they taken? Rev 19:20 answers that question:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

After this judgment is complete, the believer will be a converted child of God.

Note: The reason the Elect believer does not experience wrath during their time of judgment is because they were "born again" PRIOR to judgment falling on them. Because they are born again first, the child of God will reign with Christ over the believer's own judgment (Rev 19:11-19). For the "lost" in the final age though, they will not be born again prior to their judgment commencing. They will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire where the Elect believer's beast and false prophet were cast. During that judgment, they will experience wrath. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them. At that time, Christ will give them the gift of faith which will make the pathway straight for Christ to come to them with the Early and Latter Rain and salvation.

All of what I have described above happens solely by the spiritual work of Christ. Since Christ is the Savior of the world, Christ will do His work within all mankind - but God is the one who decides when that work will be done. Mankind has no say in the matter as to when their salvation will happen. We are Christ's "workmanship" and we contribute nothing.

If you agree that Christ's spiritual work requires no work from us to be saved as I have described above, then I do agree that you are not mixing works with faith. It seems that before, you said that it is up to the individual as to when they accept Christ - that the Elect are not really chosen by God beforehand.

Joe

 

[St. SteVen]

As for my comment about "works", from what I remember about your beliefs from previous threads, I believe you are still mixing in man's work with the spiritual work of Christ that He is now doing under the New Covenant. ... If you agree that Christ's spiritual work requires no work from us to be saved as I have described above, then I do agree that you are not mixing works with faith. It seems that before, you said that it is up to the individual as to when they accept Christ - that the Elect are not really chosen by God beforehand.

No sir, everyone is saved by grace through faith, not by works.

/

 

[FaithWillDo]

No sir, everyone is saved by grace through faith, not by works.

/

Dear St. Steven,
That is certainly true but when we discussed this subject before, you said that it is up to the individual if they are going be saved now or later and that it is based upon how the person responds to the things that God uses to "draw" them to Christ. Am I remembering wrong?

As I said in my post, God is the one who decides when a person is saved and Christ will do all the spiritual work to cause it to happen right on time.

Do you agree with that statement or do you still contend that man plays a role in when they are saved?

Joe

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank You St. SteVen

What are the basic tenats of Universalism?

Did my explanation make sense?

/

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Dear Ronald Nolette,
The words John wrote were the words of Christ and not his own. The event that John related in 1John is a "type" which teaches a spiritual truth concerning the apostasy of the church. Both Paul and Peter also wrote about the coming apostasy of the church. Christ talked about it in the gospels, too. You should not take what they said lightly.

I don't. they were history to deal with the problems the church was having.

Since the end of the 1st century, the churches fell prey to the wolves. Since that time, the church has waxed worse and worse over the centuries. Nothing has changed even to this day. The churches in this world (all 2,000 different denominations/sects) barely teach any truth. They have become places where the blind lead the blind. None of their main doctrines are true. Some have a little truth mixed into them, but most are completely false. When you compare their doctrines with what scripture actually teaches, the contradictions are astounding.

Well you are part of the church so it would seem you have waxed worse and worse. Have you personally polled the doctrinal statements of 2,000+ churches? Or are you merely vomiting what others have said.

The leaven is hidden in the bread so that when a new believer consumes this bread, they become deceived without realizing it - that is the nature of deception. A person cannot know that they are deceived while they are being deceived. That knowledge will only come to them after they come out from the deception.

How do you know you haven't eaten this leavened bread? All you have is mystical opinions of the words written. And they differ with legions of others who have privately interpreted Scripture.

Every new believer since the coming of the spirit of anti-Christ near the end of the 1st century has consumed Satan's leavened bread and has had birds come and nest in their tree. No one is so special that they can void this happening to them. Even the very Elect (the Apostles) would have fallen prey to Satan if they had not been converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the world.

So you have eatenthis leavened bread! Okay we know now you have been deceived.

Because all Elect believers since the end of the 1st century will fall prey to Satan, they will all eventually "see" the Abomination of Desolation when they come out from Satan's deceptions. This happens after Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain. It is only at that time that they are given "eyes that can see".

Jesus only need come once. Your second visitation seems more like an angel of light than the real light.

Since Christ is the Savior and does all the work of our salvation, we are at His mercy to open our eyes so that we can come out from Satan's deceptions. No individual believer has any "free will" ability to avoid Satan's deceptions and having the Abomination of Desolation occur within themselves. If you believe that you are an exception to what the scriptures above teach, then you are deceiving yourself. No one can avoid falling for Satan's deceptions. His deceptions are just too strong.

Yes we do it is called study to show ourselves approved. Taking in the Word of god and ot peoples private interpretation of what is written protects us from errors like yours.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I don't. they were history to deal with the problems the church was having.

Dear Ronald Nolette,
You said:
Well you are part of the church so it would seem you have waxed worse and worse. Have you personally polled the doctrinal statements of 2,000+ churches? Or are you merely vomiting what others have said.

No, I used to be a part of the apostate church but after I was converted in 2005, I came out of it. The true church is made up of the "few" who have been converted. They will no longer fellowship with the "many" in the apostate church. For that reason, converted Elect believers are relatively unknown in this world.

As for the 2,000 apostate denominations/sects of Christianity in the world, I have studied the teaching of the most dominant ones. However, further study of these churches is not necessary because God's Word teaches that they are all apostate.

The common denominator of the apostate churches is that they all (100% of them) teach Satan's "another gospel" which mixes man's work with faith. Some proudly proclaim that they do this but most deny it. The reason they deny it is because they are spiritually blind and have no understanding of what constitutes "works". The most common "works" belief is the false doctrine of Free Will. A few deny this false doctrine, but yet, they still unknowingly teach a version of "works" - it is just more hidden in their teachings.

You said:
How do you know you haven't eaten this leavened bread? All you have is mystical opinions of the words written. And they differ with legions of others who have privately interpreted Scripture.

I have eaten this leavened bread before, but since my conversion, I no longer eat it.

All believers will eat this leavened bread, too. They will consume it shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit and enter the church. God's Word testifies to it. For that reason, it is necessary for Christ to come a second time to the Elect and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed so that they can "see" that they have been under Satan's deceptions. After they have this knowledge, judgment will fall on the believer to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature) from within them. After they are both removed and cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction, the believer will be converted and will never fall away again. This is the point when a person's salvation is secured.

You said:
Jesus only need come once. Your second visitation seems more like an angel of light than the real light.

Like all fallen away believers who are under the influence of Satan, you are denying that Christ ever came to you in the flesh (the Early Rain). You believe that when Christ came to you, He skipped the Early Rain and only gave you the Latter Rain. But the Latter Rain comes second and not first. The Early Rain must fall before the Latter Rain will fall.

The fifth chapter of James teaches this truth.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James then ties the Early and Latter Rain analogy to Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

James 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The Early Rain is what falls on an unbeliever to call them out from the world. After it falls, a 3 1/2 year drought will occur in which the new believer will "fall away". For this reason, a person must come to that fallen away believer in the spirit of Elijah (like John the Baptist did for the Jewish Elect) with the call to repent from "dead works". If they are one of the Elect, the fallen away believer will respond to the call. After they do, the pathway is made straight for Christ to come to them with the Latter Rain. When the Latter Rain falls on the believer, the drought that they have been experiencing will end.

Paul's conversion experience likewise teaches this same truth.

Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. After Paul did, he accepted Jesus as Lord and asked Christ "what will you have me do"? Also, at that time, Paul became blind and had to be led by the hand. Paul's falling away occurred in Damascus (a symbol for earthly Jerusalem where the Elect are killed) over the next three days (symbolizes a spiritual process was taking place). At that time, Paul remained blind and could not eat or drink the nourishment of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Now read what happened to Paul when it was time for Christ to "come again" with the Latter Rain:

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Ananias is a "type" for Christ. To reach Paul, Ananias had to travel on the street named "Straight". This is to symbolize Paul's repentance from works. Also, Paul was staying at the house of a man named "Judas" which is a symbol for Paul having become a "man of sin".

Paul's prayer represented this prayer:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

After Ananias came to Paul, Paul received the Latter Rain. At that time, Paul "arose" (born again) and was given eyes that can see. After Paul received meat (truth), Paul was strengthened.

The teaching of the Early and Latter Rains is taught in many places of scripture but those teachings usually don't use the terms Early and Latter Rain, but nonetheless, the teaching of the Early and Latter Rains can be seen in those teachings if one has "eyes that can see".

You said:
Yes we do it is called study to show ourselves approved. Taking in the Word of god and ot peoples private interpretation of what is written protects us from errors like yours.

If a believer is spiritually blind, no amount of study will help them. Look at all the 2,000 different churches in the world. They have no unity of understanding, yet, they all believe they are right. Those churches are made up of the "many" who have received the Early Rain but have no spiritual understanding of God's Word. They remain carnal. Until a believer receives the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed, the Word of God will remain concealed from their understanding. For that reason, all the churches of the world are places where the blind lead the blind.

Being in the group of "many" is not the place to be. To be saved, you must be a part of the "few". When an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain, they will flee from these apostate churches up to the mountains as Lot did. Only then will they finally be able to worship God in "Spirit and in Truth".

Joe

 

[The Learner]

Did my explanation make sense?

/

I forgot the post. IS this the one?
See that? "... all of humankind are saved by the finished work of the atonement on our behalf."
Christ's work, not our work.
If so, yes.

 

[The Learner]

Dear Ronald Nolette,
You said:
Well you are part of the church so it would seem you have waxed worse and worse. Have you personally polled the doctrinal statements of 2,000+ churches? Or are you merely vomiting what others have said.

No, I used to be a part of the apostate church but after I was converted in 2005, I came out of it. The true church is made up of the "few" who have been converted. They will no longer fellowship with the "many" in the apostate church. For that reason, converted Elect believers are relatively unknown in this world.

As for the 2,000 apostate denominations/sects of Christianity in the world, I have studied the teaching of the most dominant ones. However, further study of these churches is not necessary because God's Word teaches that they are all apostate.

The common denominator of the apostate churches is that they all (100% of them) teach Satan's "another gospel" which mixes man's work with faith. Some proudly proclaim that they do this but most deny it. The reason they deny it is because they are spiritually blind and have no understanding of what constitutes "works". The most common "works" belief is the false doctrine of Free Will. A few deny this false doctrine, but yet, they still unknowingly teach a version of "works" - it is just more hidden in their teachings.

You said:
How do you know you haven't eaten this leavened bread? All you have is mystical opinions of the words written. And they differ with legions of others who have privately interpreted Scripture.

I have eaten this leavened bread before, but since my conversion, I no longer eat it.

All believers will eat this leavened bread, too. They will consume it shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit and enter the church. God's Word testifies to it. For that reason, it is necessary for Christ to come a second time to the Elect and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed so that they can "see" that they have been under Satan's deceptions. After they have this knowledge, judgment will fall on the believer to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature) from within them. After they are both removed and cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction, the believer will be converted and will never fall away again. This is the point when a person's salvation is secured.

You said:
Jesus only need come once. Your second visitation seems more like an angel of light than the real light.

Like all fallen away believers who are under the influence of Satan, you are denying that Christ ever came to you in the flesh (the Early Rain). You believe that when Christ came to you, He skipped the Early Rain and only gave you the Latter Rain. But the Latter Rain comes second and not first. The Early Rain must fall before the Latter Rain will fall.

The fifth chapter of James teaches this truth.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James then ties the Early and Latter Rain analogy to Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

James 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The Early Rain is what falls on an unbeliever to call them out from the world. After it falls, a 3 1/2 year drought will occur in which the new believer will "fall away". For this reason, a person must come to that fallen away believer in the spirit of Elijah (like John the Baptist did for the Jewish Elect) with the call to repent from "dead works". If they are one of the Elect, the fallen away believer will respond to the call. After they do, the pathway is made straight for Christ to come to them with the Latter Rain. When the Latter Rain falls on the believer, the drought that they have been experiencing will end.

Paul's conversion experience likewise teaches this same truth.

Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. After Paul did, he accepted Jesus as Lord and asked Christ "what will you have me do"? Also, at that time, Paul became blind and had to be led by the hand. Paul's falling away occurred in Damascus (a symbol for earthly Jerusalem where the Elect are killed) over the next three days (symbolizes a spiritual process was taking place). At that time, Paul remained blind and could not eat or drink the nourishment of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Now read what happened to Paul when it was time for Christ to "come again" with the Latter Rain:

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Ananias is a "type" for Christ. To reach Paul, Ananias had to travel on the street named "Straight". This is to symbolize Paul's repentance from works. Also, Paul was staying at the house of a man named "Judas" which is a symbol for Paul having become a "man of sin".

Paul's prayer represented this prayer:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

After Ananias came to Paul, Paul received the Latter Rain. At that time, Paul "arose" (born again) and was given eyes that can see. After Paul received meat (truth), Paul was strengthened.

The teaching of the Early and Latter Rains is taught in many places of scripture but those teachings usually don't use the terms Early and Latter Rain, but nonetheless, the teaching of the Early and Latter Rains can be seen in those teachings if one has "eyes that can see".

You said:
Yes we do it is called study to show ourselves approved. Taking in the Word of god and ot peoples private interpretation of what is written protects us from errors like yours.

If a believer is spiritually blind, no amount of study will help them. Look at all the 2,000 different churches in the world. They have no unity of understanding, yet, they all believe they are right. Those churches are made up of the "many" who have received the Early Rain but have no spiritual understanding of God's Word. They remain carnal. Until a believer receives the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed, the Word of God will remain concealed from their understanding. For that reason, all the churches of the world are places where the blind lead the blind.

Being in the group of "many" is not the place to be. To be saved, you must be a part of the "few". When an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain, they will flee from these apostate churches up to the mountains as Lot did. Only then will they finally be able to worship God in "Spirit and in Truth".

Joe

As for the 2,000 apostate denominations/sects of Christianity in the world

is laughable

 

[FaithWillDo]

As for the 2,000 apostate denominations/sects of Christianity in the world

is laughable

Dear Learner,
Explain why there is no unity in all those churches?

John 17:22 “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

And explain why being in the "many" is the good place to be?

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And explain all the suffering and death over the past 1,800 years that has been caused by those same churches?

These churches are Satan's churches and Christ does not know them.

Joe

 

[The Learner]

Text	Original 1830 Edition, Book of Mormon	Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978
Title page	Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work​	Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work​
Title page	now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men...​	now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men...​
1 Ne 13:40	the lamb of God is the Eternal Father​	the lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father​
1Nephi 11:21	the Eternal Father​	son of the Eternal Father​
1 Nephi 11:32	the Everlasting God​	son of the Everlasting God​
1 Nephi 20:1	words added​	or out of the waters of Baptism​
2 Nephi 12:9	the mean man boweth down​	the mean man boweth not down​
Alma 29:4	Yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable​	words deleted​
Alma 37:21,24	directors​	Interpreters​
Alma 30:16	it is the effects of a phrensied mind​	it is the effect of a frenzied mind​
Throughout B of M	now there was seven churches​	now there were seven churches​
Throughout B of M	there were no blood to shed​	there was no blood to shed​
Throughout B of M	there is two churches​	there are two churches​
Throughout B of M	and also much horses​	and also many horses​
Throughout B of M	these things had not ought to be​	these things ought not to be​
Throughout B of M	as I was a journeying​	as I was journeying ("a" removed)​
Throughout B of M	They did prepare for to meet them​	They did prepare to meet them ("for" removed)​
Throughout B of M	some have arrested the scriptures​	some have wrested the scriptures​
Throughout B of M	when they had arriven​	when they had arrived​
Throughout B of M	having no respects to persons​	having no respect to persons ("s" removed)​
Throughout B of M	they had fell into great errors​	they had fallen into great errors​
Throughout B of M	which was wrote upon the plates​	which was written upon the plates​
Throughout B of M	they were exceeding fraid​	they were exceedingly afraid​
Throughout B of M	they had began to possess the land​	they had begun to possess the land​
Throughout B of M	this they done that they might provide food​	this they did that they might provide food​
Alma 23:1	nor neither of their brethren​	nor either of their brethren​
Mosiah 21:28; Ether 4:1	king Benjamin​	Mosiah (Benjamin was dead at this time)​
1 Nephi 12:18	Jesus Christ​	Messiah (Jesus had not yet been revealed to the Nephites)​
1 Nephi 20:1	come forth out of the waters of Judah​	or out of the waters of baptism (these words added after "Judah"​
2 Nephi 16:2	seraphims​	seraphim (verse copied from older copy of KJV which made a gramatical error) ​