gay christians?

[Ziggy]

Well, I grew up in Boston and I remember going to Salem Mass. where the puritans used to drown witches.
People been persecuting people since Cain and Abel.
I believe it's the very first psalm that says don't go along with them?
Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Lot of people thinking they doing God's service by removing what they consider wicked.
But we also know God says that vengeance is his.
Rom 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

So if you don't agree with something then simply avoid it.
But people gonna be offended for everything all the time.
I get offended when I get called by our government a domestic terrorist because I don't agree with the governments policies.
Don't think a church or religion is going to escape criticism.
It's par for the course.
It's what you do with that offence that matters. You can react to it, or ignore it.
Rom 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

If I reacted everytime I got called a nazi, or white supremist, or domestic terrorist, or deplorable, a radical right winger...
I'd probably be in jail. And what good would that do?
And people are set in their minds, and you can't change that. Only God can.

People gonna do what they gonna do, but you don't have to go along with them.

Hugs

 

[Mink57]

The protestant realm made these same identical claims as it too DECIEVED its own .
THEY DO THIS so they wont lose their base and yet all the while they know exactly what they are doing .
Getting folks onto the emotional bandwagon and as time goes on , THEY SOON accept it as GOOD .
THEY Know what they are doing . Christendom has BEEN HIJACKED and its been HIGHJACKED by men from within
with a universal mindset that knows how to gather all tribes to be as one and do its bidding as one .
YA GETTING DUPED just like the protestant realm got duped . We dont bless sin , we correct sin .
THEY Know how to word play and use emotions to get the job done .

What Marymog is stating has to do with the 'spin' some journalists often put on news items and then report their opinion/interpretation as fact. Maybe a particular journalist is anti-Catholic, and will spin the Pope's words just enough to get the attention of other anti-Catholics.

Best thing to do is to ignore the media and go straight to the source.

 

[Mink57]

Well, I grew up in Boston and I remember going to Salem Mass. where the puritans used to drown witches.
People been persecuting people since Cain and Abel.
I believe it's the very first psalm that says don't go along with them?
Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Lot of people thinking they doing God's service by removing what they consider wicked.
But we also know God says that vengeance is his.
Rom 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

What I bolded I think is important for all of us. We are taught to forgive for a reason, and the reason may be because we honestly don't know the kind of 'penalty' that God would impose upon a 'transgressor.' Our 'vengeance' may either be, not enough or too much. Best for us to forgive and let God decide if vengeance is even necessary...and how much, and what kind.

So if you don't agree with something then simply avoid it.
But people gonna be offended for everything all the time.
I get offended when I get called by our government a domestic terrorist because I don't agree with the governments policies.

Hard to believe that stuff still happens in almost 2024!

Don't think a church or religion is going to escape criticism.
It's par for the course.
It's what you do with that offence that matters. You can react to it, or ignore it.
Rom 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

If I reacted everytime I got called a nazi, or white supremist, or domestic terrorist, or deplorable, a radical right winger...
I'd probably be in jail. And what good would that do?
And people are set in their minds, and you can't change that. Only God can.

People gonna do what they gonna do, but you don't have to go along with them.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

What Marymog is stating has to do with the 'spin' some journalists often put on news items and then report their opinion/interpretation as fact. Maybe a particular journalist is anti-Catholic, and will spin the Pope's words just enough to get the attention of other anti-Catholics.

Best thing to do is to ignore the media and go straight to the source.

You can't trust the media. I don't care what side your on, they're goal is to cause to division. period.

I read the article and I read what the Pope said. He said he don't have problem blessing same sex relationships, as long as they don't mirror or resemble marriage.. which is a slippery slope. just sayin.

Because the people in the same sex relationship believe that they are being blessed the same as a marriage.
So it's not what the Pope believes, it's what the people are led to believe.
And that opens a lot of doors to the loosing rather than the binding.
Not all things are acceptable with God right?
Somewhere a line has to be drawn.

Frankly, I don't care. I'm not gay, I'm not married. I'm single and I live alone. I have no relationships.
I live with my dad and my focus is on him and his health.
And Jesus is the head of our household.

But the world will do what it does. I'm not the judge, but the judge is coming.
And he'll flush it out.

But the media has only one purpose. To keep everyone seperated and hating everyone. Don't matter if it's race, gender, rich, poor,
political, religious, fat, skinny... they don't care about the topic, they only care in causing division on any topic.

The devil uses the media for it's own purpose. Don't fall for it.

Hugs

 

[Marymog]

You can't trust the media. I don't care what side your on, they're goal is to cause to division. period.

I read the article and I read what the Pope said. He said he don't have problem blessing same sex relationships, as long as they don't mirror or resemble marriage.. which is a slippery slope. just sayin.

Because the people in the same sex relationship believe that they are being blessed the same as a marriage.
So it's not what the Pope believes, it's what the people are led to believe.
And that opens a lot of doors to the loosing rather than the binding.
Not all things are acceptable with God right?
Somewhere a line has to be drawn.

Frankly, I don't care. I'm not gay, I'm not married. I'm single and I live alone. I have no relationships.
I live with my dad and my focus is on him and his health.
And Jesus is the head of our household.

But the world will do what it does. I'm not the judge, but the judge is coming.
And he'll flush it out.

But the media has only one purpose. To keep everyone seperated and hating everyone. Don't matter if it's race, gender, rich, poor,
political, religious, fat, skinny... they don't care about the topic, they only care in causing division on any topic.

The devil uses the media for it's own purpose. Don't fall for it.

Hugs

Hey Ziggy,

I like/respect everything you said EXCEPT 'he (the pope) don't have problem blessing same sex relationships, as long as they don't mirror or resemble marriage..

He didn't say that. He said the person in a same sex relationship can be blessed, not the relationship. The document makes it clear that same sex marriages are NOT to be blessed, condoned, performed by clergy. Only marriages between a man and a woman are worthy of a blessing.

The opposite of a blessing is a curse. The person in a same sex relationship shouldn't be cursed just because they are in a state of sin....just like you, just like me.....we both live in a state of sin. If blessings can't be given to those living in a state of sin....no one is worthy of a blessing.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Marymog]

The FACT of the matter is - more and more "christians" are accepting gay people and are becoming gay friendly.

Love the sinner, not the sin. Jesus accepted all sinners at his table and into his Church.

 

[Marymog]

I know enough to know that catholics aren't Christians.

Really? So you have judged us.

What standards OR what MUST one believe to be a Christian according to your judgmental standards?

Curious Mary

 

[Mink57]

You can't trust the media. I don't care what side your on, they're goal is to cause to division. period.

I read the article and I read what the Pope said. He said he don't have problem blessing same sex relationships, as long as they don't mirror or resemble marriage.. which is a slippery slope. just sayin.

I don't think it's so much of a 'slippery slope' as it is in line with the Catholic belief that only GOD can condemn; the Catholic Church cannot (although it has tried before, and realized its error...). It's an exercise in forgiveness...not to be confused with condoning.

Because the people in the same sex relationship believe that they are being blessed the same as a marriage.

Not necessarily. The church would probably inform the couple of what a 'blessing' means...BEFORE they receive a blessing.

So it's not what the Pope believes, it's what the people are led to believe.

The people aren't being 'led' to believe anything. When a heterosexual couple decides to marry in the Catholic faith, they are required to go through Pre-Cana. While nothing's in place yet for a same sex couple to receive a blessing, I'm confident that the RCC would also instruct its clergy to render a similar policy. Time will tell. I can tell you this in the meantime. A same sex couple can't simply walk into a Catholic church and say, "Yo, Padre! Bless our union!" and the priest will say, "O.k."...

And that opens a lot of doors to the loosing rather than the binding.
Not all things are acceptable with God right?
Somewhere a line has to be drawn.

Frankly, I don't care. I'm not gay, I'm not married. I'm single and I live alone. I have no relationships.
I live with my dad and my focus is on him and his health.
And Jesus is the head of our household.

Bless you and your dad...

But the world will do what it does. I'm not the judge, but the judge is coming.
And he'll flush it out.

You're right. The Judge IS coming, and therefore we (including the RCC) are NOT to judge!

But the media has only one purpose. To keep everyone seperated and hating everyone. Don't matter if it's race, gender, rich, poor,
political, religious, fat, skinny... they don't care about the topic, they only care in causing division on any topic.

The devil uses the media for it's own purpose. Don't fall for it.

Hugs

Again, I agree.

 

[Ziggy]

.just like you, just like me.....we both live in a state of sin.

ok I hear what your saying. But those who have died with Christ and are born again, no longer live in a state of sin.
Otherwise the promise of being washed from all unrighteousness becomes null and void.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we are cleansed from all unrighteousness then we no longer live in a state of sin.

But the only way truly that that statement is true, is if one not only confesses but repents from that which is unrighteous in God's eyes, not man's.

You can't be a christian who has died to the flesh and has Jesus dwelling in him and still have a relationship in the flesh which goes against God's commandments. Be fruitful and multiply isn't possible in a same sex marriage, no matter what science says.

So yes the Pope can bless the person, but what good is that blessing if the person is still living a sinful lifestyle and seeks not to live according to the Holy Spirit within him?

There is a reason God created 2 genders. Not 99. And it was for the purpose of recreating himself in us throughout all genearations.
Being homosexual is a stop sign to that end.

So here's what I believe.
There is a purpose for everything under the sun. We don't know why some people have certain tendencies, or why some people get diseases and others don't. God knows.
And I believe that they are put here for our benefit. And what I mean by that is:
How can you be truly charitable to only those who deserve charity and not to those who don't?
How can we love our enemies if there are no enemies to love?

God tests us daily to see what we do with what he brings before us.
So then the question becomes: What would Jesus do?
I believe he would go to the sinner and say you are forgiven "blessed" , go and sin no more.
And if they listen they do, and if they don't they don't.
That choice is theirs to make.

Hugs

 

[Mink57]

ok I hear what your saying. But those who have died with Christ and are born again, no longer live in a state of sin.

For how long? Do you think that if one commits theft AFTER they've supposedly been saved, that Jesus doesn't see theft as sin?

Otherwise the promise of being washed from all unrighteousness becomes null and void.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we are cleansed from all unrighteousness then we no longer live in a state of sin

Does it ONLY take confession? How about repentance?

But the only way truly that that statement is true, is if one not only confesses but repents from that which is unrighteous in God's eyes, not man's.

You can't be a christian who has died to the flesh and has Jesus dwelling in him and still have a relationship in the flesh which goes against God's commandments. Be fruitful and multiply isn't possible in a same sex marriage, no matter what science says.

Yup. Agreed.

So yes the Pope can bless the person, but what good is that blessing if the person is still living a sinful lifestyle and seeks not to live according to the Holy Spirit within him?

There is a reason God created 2 genders. Not 99. And it was for the purpose of recreating himself in us throughout all genearations.
Being homosexual is a stop sign to that end.

Right. But the 'blessing' may not mean what you think. It's not about 'approval'. I personally know a homeless man who's into drugs. I can 'bless' him, or ask God to 'bless' him. It doesn't mean I approve of his situation. It means I'm leaving his situation in God's hands.

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." That's a 'blessing' of sorts.

So here's what I believe.
There is a purpose for everything under the sun. We don't know why some people have certain tendencies, or why some people get diseases and others don't. God knows.
And I believe that they are put here for our benefit. And what I mean by that is:
How can you be truly charitable to only those who deserve charity and not to those who don't?
How can we love our enemies if there are no enemies to love?

Wow. That really speaks to me about YOU, Ziggy. Thank you for that.

God tests us daily to see what we do with what he brings before us.
So then the question becomes: What would Jesus do?
I believe he would go to the sinner and say you are forgiven "blessed" , go and sin no more.
And if they listen they do, and if they don't they don't.
That choice is theirs to make.

Hugs

AMEN to that. May God bless you in that regard.

 

[Mink57]

I don't know any gay Christians
because the very first thing I would do
if they told me they were gay

IS TO REBUKE THEM.

THEN I WOULD DEPART FROM THEM.

WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO HATES SIN
RUN AROUND WITH A BUNCH OF SODOMITES?

And if I were a pastor in a church and they were there
I would call them out in front of everyone and rebuke them
for it and demand that they repent of it.

Isn't that what we are commanded to do?

1 Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

So, the bible gives you a reason to be prejudiced against certain people. Good to know! Thanks for sharing.

Sorry, but judgment is up to GOD; not YOU, or anyone else.

 

[Mr E]

Done.....I know you won't own up to it but I am learning that is the type of person you are.

Where is the list?

I can easily quote all the personal attacks you have committed kiddo.

Still waiting.

 

[Mink57]

Your welcome. I am also a racist.

Again, good to know! That means that your words have no bearing here on this forum....

...unless of course you're being sarcastic.

By the way..."Your welcome" should be "You're welcome." And since you left out the apostrophe in the "your", it tells me that you're not that educated.

Am I really going to listen to someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"?

 

[Mr E]

Let's start here>>> it sets the tone for what is to come. This Declaration states the official position of the Pope with respect to the questions repeatedly asked of him by Cardinals who were concerned about previous statements he had made about "irregular marriages" and the possibility of blessing those marriages. In short, this declaration was needed because his positions were confusing the clergy and more clarity was required. He was making folks nervous. Catholics call it -the Dubia of some Cardinals. Translated-- Doubts.

These doubts are presented as formal questions to be asked of him, again-- for clarity on his position as leader of the Catholic Church. The are asking for direction. Here are the questions that prompted the Declaration. Look closely at #2 and the Pope's response. This response was simply not clear enough and so doubts remain. The declaration was intended to resolve lingering questions that came as a result of his response-- which the Pope presented as an official church directive, exercised by him with the supreme and full authority of the church.

Pope Francis responds to dubia submitted by five cardinals - Vatican News

The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith has published Pope Francis' response to "dubia" (questions; literally "doubts") presented by five ...

www.vaticannews.va

So with that in mind, let's look specifically at a few bullet points that the Pope makes in his new directive as presented in the declaration:

27. In the catechesis cited at the beginning of this Declaration, Pope Francis proposed a description of this kind of blessing that is offered to all without requiring anything.

Here, on this point, the reference is Francis, Catechesis on Prayer: The Blessing (2 December 2020). In it, the Pope at Audience spoke about blessings, specifically.

Reflecting on blessing as an essential dimension of prayer, Pope Francis in his General Audience says that our response to the God who blesses is also by blessing. We do it through the prayer of praise, adoration and thanksgiving.

He says: “God is like a good father and a good mother: they never stop loving their child, no matter what he or she may have done wrong.”

And that blessings contain a special power-- "blessing possesses a special power that accompanies the person who receives it throughout his or her entire life."

It's this special power that the Pope wants priests to confer.

I'll continue in parts....

 

[Ziggy]

Am I really going to listen to someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"?

Don't judge the gay but judge the grammar..
LOL
You know, I only made it to the 6th grade. Well, they graduated me to the 8th to keep up with the Jones's. But I skipped most of the 7th, and became a mom in the 8th.
I didn't get my GED until I was in my 20's.
And then there is my keyboard that I believe intentionally leaves out letters to make me look stupid sometimes.
LOL

Just messin with ya.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

I kind of like this response myself:

Mat 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So my question is:

When we choose to hate our enemies, or curse our enemies, and persecute our enemies, spit on our enemies or call our enemies names..
Doesn't that make us the enemy?

Jesus didn't come to condemn, why then do we feel it's our responsibility to do it for him?

Idk...
This is a tough topic. Because we don't want to see people be condemned and yet we are the ones doing the condemning.

thinking out loud...
Hugs

 

[Marymog]

Where is the list?



View attachment 38848

Still waiting.

Not playing your game kiddo......I know you got the list because I posted you in it.

Like I said....and you are making come true.......I know you won't own up to it but I am learning that is the type of person you are.

 

[BarneyFife]

Hey troll

Dichiarazione “Fiducia supplicans” sul senso pastorale delle benedizioni del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede

press.vatican.va

that is a link to the declaration. Quote from it to prove me wrong. If you can’t prove me wrong publicly apologize


Deal?

The document does more to obscure the church's stand on homosexual relationships than it does to clarify. Not all of us have time to go to law school to enable us to figure out what the Vatican is up to. As critical and harsh as this surely sounds it is nevertheless true. Ambiguity is bound to breed misunderstanding and prejudice. And the Catholic church hierarchy's history is not exactly one of forthrightness.

.

 

[Marymog]

ok I hear what your saying. But those who have died with Christ and are born again, no longer live in a state of sin.
Otherwise the promise of being washed from all unrighteousness becomes null and void.

Thanks for that opinion OR interpretation of Scripture.

The passage in John 3 that refers to being "born again" and all of John 3 at no point and no time says once you are born again (of water and Spirit) you no longer live in a state of sin. It doesn't say that.....PERIOD!! You added that to Scripture.

Show me in Scripture where it says once a person is washed from all unrighteousness they no longer live in a state of sin. I can show you Scripture that destroys what your men have taught you:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

[Marymog]

The document does more to obscure the church's stand on homosexual relationships than it does to clarify. Not all of us have time to go to law school to enable us to figure out what the Vatican is up to. As critical and harsh as this surely sounds it is nevertheless true. Ambiguity is bound to breed misunderstanding and prejudice. And the Catholic church hierarchy's history is not exactly one of forthrightness.

.

Really? The document does more to obscure the church's stand? What is obscure about this statement in the document:

'one should neither provide for nor promote a ritual for the blessings of couples in an irregular situation.' In any case, precisely to avoid any form of confusion or scandal, when the prayer of blessing is requested by a (same sex couple or) couple in an irregular situation, ......this blessing should never be imparted in concurrence with the ceremonies of a civil union, and not even in connection with them. Nor can it be performed with any clothing, gestures, or words that are proper to a wedding.

marriage is an "exclusive, stable and indissoluble union between a man and a woman, naturally open to conceiving children,"

You didn't read it, did you Barny?

But your commenting about it like you did read it....Hmmmmm!!!