Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,820
13,119
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just wondering if this could be because you are not listening to what God has said through his Apostles but only listening to what Calvin has distorted the teaching to say?

Don’t know Calvin. First heard people talking about him on this forum. Never researched him so don’t know what he says.

So am I listening to someone named Calvin…
No, nor have I ever said I was.

What exactly is your complaint that you say is distorted?
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,794
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just wondering if this could be because you are not listening to what God has said through his Apostles but only listening to what Calvin has distorted the teaching to say?
Many ppl do not realize some of their ingrained denominal "teachings" come by the reformists of days gone by.

They believe their preachers & teachers who espouse the things these reformers have corrupted of the word of God to be true doctrine !

It's called deniable plausibility!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hillsage

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,586
4,902
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
SAV-ED men are called; ARE SANCTIFIED, because it IS Accomplished.
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:10 - By this will WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.
Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering He has perfected FOR ALL TIME THOSE who are sanctified.

Unlike those with spurious faith who draw back to perdition, those with genuine faith believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)

Some people know what FOR EVER means, Some people do not know, and coupled with their lack of understanding and ignorance…
Attempt to make God a Liar, by preaching God Gives His Gift of Salvation to men and then His Word and His Power within them FAILS, and that man loses his salvation…
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

I would hardly call that Glorifying God!
SELF promotion, SELF preservation and SELF righteousness does not glorify God.
 

Mikey-for-sure

Active Member
Jul 6, 2023
162
62
28
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

We show our faith by our works. Show, not establish. Big difference.


In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.


"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead.

If someone merely says-claims he has faith, but lacks resulting evidential works, then he demonstrates that he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

The opposite of dead is alive. In Ephesians 2:5, we read - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).... 8-9 by grace through faith, not works, 10 created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works. Christ is the source of life in our faith. Faith must be alive first before it can produce works. Just as a tree must be alive first before it can produce fruit. Life flows through faith (root of salvation) and produces works (fruit of salvation) just as life flows through the root of a tree and produces fruit.


Notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.


Faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.


The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.


James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. *Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
I think one speaks with a forked tongue when to one side I am a judaizer while the other side to the new ager OSASer needs to be tempered with the wisdoms of the bible, nudge nudge wink wink. Meaningless.
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,586
4,902
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think one speaks with a forked tongue when to one side I am a judaizer while the other side to the new ager OSASer needs to be tempered with the wisdoms of the bible, nudge nudge wink wink. Meaningless.
It's simply about harmonizing scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ritajanice

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,586
4,902
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The problem with this is that some like to make the harmony fit their view and rewrite what has to so it will
You just described those who teach works salvation. They will isolate a handful of pet verses, build doctrine on them and try to force the rest of Scripture to "conform" to their biased interpretation of those pet verses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ritajanice

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Mar 9, 2023
7,309
4,539
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
You just described those who teach works salvation. They will isolate a handful of pet verses, build doctrine on them and try to force the rest of Scripture to "conform" to their biased interpretation of those pet verses.
What about those who say, one must follow scripture to be baptised in the Spirit?

1698331907171.gif


If that ain’t works, I dread to think what is.
 
Last edited:

Godslittleservant

Active Member
Aug 28, 2023
517
131
43
64
Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You just described those who teach works salvation. They will isolate a handful of pet verses, build doctrine on them and try to force the rest of Scripture to "conform" to their biased interpretation of those pet verses.
It could be that they let the scripture speak while others try to tear those passage out of their bibles you think
 

Godslittleservant

Active Member
Aug 28, 2023
517
131
43
64
Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“Blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, who does not look to the proud, to those who turn aside to false gods.”
— Psalms 40:4 (NIV)
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,794
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who among us has perfect understanding & NEVER leans upon his own understanding?

Luke 1: 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Is there perfect understanding of the word since we look through the glass darkly ? 1 Corinthians 13:12

I do not believe any of us do not hold to some form of our indoctrinated teachings by either our affiliations, parents ect.
It takes the act of the Spirit to remove the dross of bad teaching & our learning. None have arrived as yet.

We may remain separated in our thinking and understanding but must be united in his love.
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,586
4,902
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who among us has perfect understanding & NEVER leans upon his own understanding?

Luke 1: 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Is there perfect understanding of the word since we look through the glass darkly ? 1 Corinthians 13:12

I do not believe any of us do not hold to some form of our indoctrinated teachings by either our affiliations, parents ect.
It takes the act of the Spirit to remove the dross of bad teaching & our learning. None have arrived as yet.

We may remain separated in our thinking and understanding but must be united in his love.
In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all thing's charity.
 
  • Love
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Mar 9, 2023
7,309
4,539
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
What about those who say that if you don't speak the 'gibberish' tongue, then you don't have The Holy Spirit?
I don’t think Gods word says, those who don’t talk in tongues, aren’t Born Again, I thought tongues was a gift I don’t believe it’s a requirement do you?
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,116
2,577
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I know some people like to pass judgments on others that confess to be sinners. This thread is not about that. And I often wonder why people fight the OSAS idea. I also don't believe in OSAS, but I believe in a version that allows for God to save people if he desires.

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

I think no one, the devil or man, can snatch God's people out of his hand. But they can reject God by free choice. Let's pray for the sinners that they are given power to overcome sin as well. As God only promotes righteousness in his word.
....
The matter really is simple...

Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness
for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV


Our 1st belief on Jesus Christ and our baptism is about "the remission of sins that are past"! That means sins we committed PRIOR to believing on Jesus Christ.

What about future sins we as believers may commit?



That... is the subject which Apostle John covers in 1 John 1. We are to repent... of FUTURE SINS we may discover that we do, and ask Jesus forgiveness. That is about keeping our WALK with Jesus by doing that. And John even says there, if we say we have no sin, we make Jesus a liar.

What then does OSAS teach instead?


In the extreme view of OSAS, it falsely teaches that the believer cannot sin anymore, ever. In other words, just go ahead and live your life, because all... future sin we may commit has already been forgiven by Lord Jesus's Blood shed upon His cross. WHAT?!? Wait a minute... didn't Apostle Paul reveal in that Romans 3 Scripture above that our first belief on Jesus only covers our sins that happened in the past up to the point of our first belief? YEAH! Paul did say that!

WHY... in the world then, would some preacher instead push the LIE that we as believers on Jesus Christ can never commit a sin again? Apostle Paul even said one that is dead is freed from sin (Romans 6:7). Why would Paul say that? It's simply because while we are in this flesh, we will always... fall short of the glory of God! We will still slip up at times, mainly because our fleshy desires and wants causes it. And if you don't think Apostle Paul knew this, then you should study Romans 7.

Satan wants us to think we don't need to watch and check ourselves for future sin. "Don't worry about it", is his motto. Thus the OSAS doctrine really is a doctrine of the devil, even though there's many illiterate country preachers out there that teach it, not understanding the lie they are pushing from the devil.

Phil 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
KJV

Was Apostle Paul giving that warning working out our salvation "with fear and trembling" because we as believers on Jesus Christ cannot sin anymore?

If you care about your soul brethren, you'll listen to God's Word instead of those deceived preachers.
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,452
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Satan wants us to think we don't need to watch and check ourselves for future sin. "Don't worry about it", is his motto. Thus the OSAS doctrine really is a doctrine of the devil, even though there's many illiterate country preachers out there that teach it, not understanding the lie they are pushing from the devil.

There's no doubt... OSAS doctrine is a trick of the devil, a snare of the wicked one.