Be Warned: Revelation 20 Is Not... A Current Reality

[ScottA]

He received the Lord's correction and believed.

Nicodemus was willing.

 

[Freedm]

I well understand the difference between preaching as a "hireling" (John 10), treating it like a business, compared to those who refuse to be tethered down by men's doctrines, like the leaven which Jesus warned His disciples that the Pharisees were doing.

I don't care if the preacher looks like an ogre at the pulpit with worn out clothes, if that person is staying in The Word of God, then that is a true disciple of Jesus Christ, and will have rewards coming in the world to come. So it ain't about looks, or money, nor Ph.D,.s, etc., which are things of this world.

Look at you, completely ignoring everything I said, refusing to own what you did, and trying to sound pious at the same time. I have just lost all respect for you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Nicodemus was willing.

Yep, that's what we should all do is when we learn of truth from the Lord... change and be in agreement with the Lord.

 

[Davy]

Look at you, completely ignoring everything I said, refusing to own what you did, and trying to sound pious at the same time. I have just lost all respect for you.

All you are trying to do is IGNORE my previous posts.

So as a reminder, I said...

"You asked me if I thought Preterists were lying, and I said YES. I didn't say anything about you personally, because you didn't claim what you following in that post, so get off your high horse!"

You obviously need to learn the following lesson that Jesus taught His disciples, because of what you have been pushing that it's OK for the churches to push "leaven" doctrines like the Pharisees did...

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"

12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
KJV

 

[PinSeeker]

...Rev 20 is a future reality that will probably become relevant within the next 20 or so years after the Heavenly host are judged and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

Revelation 20, beginning in verse 7, is a future reality (the "will be" is future tense and indicative of that). The passage from Revelation 20:7-10 is analogous and concurrent, time-wise, with Revelation 19:11-21. It is the final conflict in which Jesus defeats, once and for all, all His enemies.

Revelation 20:1-3a is a past reality ~ "seized," "bound," "threw," "shut," and "sealed" are all past tense and thus iindicative of that).

Job's story gives us some important insight into this massive reduction of Satan's power over the heathen nations. Job 1:6-12 portrays Satan as possessing the ability to come into God's immediate presence along with other angels, or "sons of God" (v.6). He used this place of power to cause great harm to Job. But according to what Christ says in the Gospels, Satan lost that privileged access to the heavenly courts as a result of the incarnation and work of Christ... he is bound from doing so. In Luke 10:18-19, the seventy disciples return with great joy from their successful mission in preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. Christ then explains how they were able to accomplish these wonders: "He said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (v. 18). Jesus explains Satan's fall in terms of Christian ministry: "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you" (v. 19). Also, it is significant that the first beings to recognize the incarnate Christ, according to the gospel of Mark, were demons. Mark 1:24 and Luke 4:34 are among the passages that show the demons crying out in terror that the Holy One of God has come to torment them. Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matthew 12:28-29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.​

Revelation 20:4-6 is a present reality ~ "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" and "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended (vv. 4b and 5a together are indicative of that). People of every tongue, tribe, and people-group have been coming to Christ and ruling with Him for the last two thousand years ~ which is God's millennium, which is not yet complete, as not all the elect have been called; God's Israel is still under construction.

...if we believe satan is locked away, why the need to be sober and vigilant anymore, right?

Well, for several reasons I can think of but the two that immediately come to mind are as follows:

• Satan's being unable to come into God's immediate presence (see above) does not hinder his ability to roam the earth, even as Peter testifies in 1 Peter 5:8. Although the evil one still has limited power in a fallen world, it is far less than what he had when he was able to bind and blind all nations outside Israel, and believers can still overcome even Satan's limited power; James 4:7 commands us, "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
• as Paul says, we are to "stand against the schemes of the devil... for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil... and, of course, Jesus could return at any time..

Nicodemus was willing.

Sure, but his being born again of the Spirit was not the thing on which his being made a member of God's elect depended.

Grace and peace to you both.

 

[Freedm]

All you are trying to do is IGNORE my previous posts.

So as a reminder, I said...

"You asked me if I thought Preterists were lying, and I said YES. I didn't say anything about you personally, because you didn't claim what you following in that post, so get off your high horse!"

You obviously need to learn the following lesson that Jesus taught His disciples, because of what you have been pushing that it's OK for the churches to push "leaven" doctrines like the Pharisees did...

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"

12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
KJV

Step 1: Learn the difference between "wrong" and "lying".
Step 2: Apologize to me for calling me a liar.
Step 3: Then we can talk.

 

[Davy]

Step 1: Learn the difference between "wrong" and "lying".
Step 2: Apologize to me for calling me a liar.
Step 3: Then we can talk.

You are a deceiver, and I shall in no way ever bow down to you. May God rebuke you.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ... don't be fooled by these 'holier than thou' types that come here trying to insinuate that a preacher at the pulpit has SUPREME AUTHORITY in what he preaches.

If a church is not staying in The Word of God as written, then that is NOT a real Christian Church, but instead is what God called a 'beth-aven' in Old Testament times, which means a 'house (beth) of vanity (aven)'. And there's a lot of them out there that teach their 'own thing', and do not stay in God's Word. Lord Jesus even warned us about this regarding men's 'leaven' doctrines ADDED to The Word of God with the miracles of the fish and loaves (Matthew 16:6-12).

And especially... beware of some of the doctrines that come out of the seminaries. The reason why there are so many 'different types' of Christian seminary colleges today is because the same reason why there are so many different types of 'denominations' (i.e., divisions, because that's what the word denomination actually means). Common sense ought to reveal that if they all... were teaching the same things, then they would all be of just one denomination, and not many.

Some seminaries push the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory which begin in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby. Then some seminaries don't, but instead push doctrines of Preterism which tries to treat most of The Bible as already having been fulfilled. Then others like 'Full Preterism', teaches that there is NO future physical coming of Jesus Christ, and that the 2nd coming already happened back in His Apostle's days. Then in these latter days especially, there are denominations that teach homosexuality is OK for the Church, and have Jezebel's serving in the pastor positions in those beth-avens. You can even find a seminary to attend that does not believe Jesus Christ is God having come in the flesh! that Jesus is God is Bible 101! (see Matthew 1:23).

So if God's Word is against it, then if you want to stay in Christ's Grace, you had better bow to His Authority per His written Word, and leave those beth-avens.

 

[PinSeeker]

...don't be fooled by these 'holier than thou' types...

...like Davy. Yeah, there's a pot calling the kettle black if ever there was such a thing.

...that come here trying to insinuate that a preacher at the pulpit has SUPREME AUTHORITY in what he preaches.

Which, of course, nobody here really does. But there are some here who seem to think they themselves have supreme authority... or even any kind of authority at all...

Goodness gracious.

So if God's Word is against it, then if you want to stay in Christ's Grace, you had better bow to...

...Davy. LOL!

Grace and peace to you all.

 

[PinSeeker]

Just to the OP:

Beware of those pushing the false theory that the events of Revelation 20 have already started. That theory is so far away from Bible Truth that it is clearly a LIE being used to TARGET new babes in Christ that don't yet understand the signs and events leading up to Jesus' future return.

Here is one simple way in Bible Scripture that you can KNOW none of those Revelation 20 verses have happened yet today.

Rev 20:1-2
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
KJV

One of the first things that will happen on the 'day' when Jesus returns in the future, is that binding of Satan and locking him in his pit prison for that 1,000 years.

So, Christ was "pushing a false theory" ~ lying, as it were ~ in Matthew 12, when He said:

"...if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house" (Matthew 12:28-29).​

I mean, I say no, but that's just me.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

By the above, Apostle Peter revealed that in his day, the devil, Satan, was still walking about, as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. That means the devil is still on the loose today, not yet locked in his pit prison...

No, he was saying that Satan, even in this binding and resulting inability to deceive the nations (as John puts it in Revelation 20), is still able, along with his "minions," to exert deceptive influence and enticement to sin. It's an exhortation to us as believers, very much like Paul's exhortation in Ephesians 6 to:

"be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might... (p)ut on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil... (f)or we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places... (t)herefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm." (Ephesians 6:10-13)​

...Jesus has NOT returned yet!

Yes, I hope no one is thinking Jesus has returned yet, for sure. Because He hasn't.

And to that point, He will not return and then return again at some future time subsequent to His still future return, as some seem to think... without realizing that's what they think, apparently...

So beware brethren.

Hmmm, well, theoretically, at least, no matter which eschatological view one holds to, he or she presumably believes in Jesus. So... "beware"...? Yes, we should all be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might, and put on the whole armor of God so that we may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil, for sure. But one's salvation, one's eternal well-being, is not dependent on one's eschatological view.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davy]

...like Davy. Yeah, there's a pot calling the kettle black if ever there was such a thing.


Which, of course, nobody here really does. But there are some here who seem to think they themselves have supreme authority... or even any kind of authority at all...

Goodness gracious.


...Davy. LOL!

Grace and peace to you all.

Stupidity.

 

[Davy]

Just to the OP:


So, Christ was "pushing a false theory" ~ lying, as it were ~ in Matthew 12, when He said....

Matt.12 isn't about the subject of Christ's future Millennium reign. So go back to your false Jewish Babylonian Talmud with your fabrications.

No, he was saying that Satan, even in this binding and resulting inability to deceive the nations (as John puts it in Revelation 20), is still able, along with his "minions," to exert deceptive influence and enticement to sin. It's an exhortation to us as believers, very much like Paul's exhortation in Ephesians 6 to:

Since you are here to try and destroy what The New Testament teaches, you're going to have to try harder and learn more of The New Testament Scriptures; you're starting to sound like a broken record with your FALSE theories from the deceived Jews.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ, if you don't yet realize there is a Satanic faction that exists as false churches which CLAIM to be Christian, then it's important to realize how Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about such a thing as that.

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 Lord Jesus warned us about the "synagogue of Satan" which are FALSE JEWS that claim... to be Jews, but ARE NOT, and DO LIE. Jesus was pointing to the "tares" like in His parable of the tares of the field in Matthew 13, those "tares" representing Satan's children, not of the 'seed' of Israel at all.

That 'faction' exists within some churches today also. They hide, and the only way to recognize them is by their fruit. And HOW does we recognize the fruit? By staying with what The Word of God as written teaches.

Those false-Jews began early in the 1st century A.D. in Apostle Paul's days to try and twist the principles of Christ crucified and Salvation by His cross through Faith. Apostle Paul had to contend with them, and even warned the brethren towards the end of his ministry of how they would creep in after his leaving (Acts 20). Paul even warned of how those of the circumcision (Jews) that reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ still have the 'spirit of slumber' upon their minds, and thus they CANNOT understand The Gospel and The New Testament Scriptures.

This is why on Christian forums there exists certain ones who try to turn and twist The New Testament Bible Scriptures around to any old which way they can, in order to deceive, because they actually work against Jesus Christ, just as the Jude 4 prophecy said there were certain ones 'ordained' to that condemnation of being against Christ.

The false doctrine of Amillennialism is one of their early doctrines of the 2nd century A.D. It's a doctrine that exposed easily its false 'fruit', simply because one who accepts it has to omit many, many written Bible Scriptures. And this is one of the important lessons every true Christian must learn, that those who push false doctrine will always... show the 'fruit' of DENYING or OMITTING what Scripture teaches 'as written', or will omit a Scripture proof altogether.

Those on men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory is one such real easy case... those deceived on that false doctrine will flat DENY... that Jesus showed that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER the tribulation, per Jesus' Olivet discourse. They also will deny the order that Apostle Paul gave for Jesus' return and gathering of the Church in 2 Thess.2. They even make up lies against a Bible Scripture that reveals their false fruit by claiming it was not written FOR Christ's Church, when Christ's Church is specifically who the Scripture had in mind.

So likewise it is with the false fruit that Christ's future "thousand years" Millennium reign is already happening today, when that will ONLY begin on the day of Christ's future return, as written in Revelation 20, and in other Bible Scriptures.

 

[PinSeeker]

Stupidity.

Right? Right???

Matt.12 isn't about the subject of Christ's future Millennium reign.

Well, not future, no. But it's about the strong man's (Satan's) binding ~ which is during the God's millennium in the context of John's vision in Revelation 20 ~ and Christ's ability to rob his house, to "plunder his goods," as it were. Jesus tells the Pharisees:

"...if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house" (Matthew 12:28-29)

Christ was then, and still is, plundering Satan's "house."

So go back to your false Jewish Babylonian Talmud with your fabrications.

<eye roll>

Since you are here to try and destroy what The New Testament teaches, you're going to have to try harder and learn more of The New Testament Scriptures; you're starting to sound like a broken record with your FALSE theories from the deceived Jews.

<eye roll>

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[Davy]

Right? Right???


Well, not future, no. But it's about the strong man's (Satan's) binding ~ which is during the God's millennium in the context of John's vision in Revelation 20 ~ and Christ's ability to rob his house, to "plunder his goods," as it were. Jesus tells the Pharisees:

"...if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house" (Matthew 12:28-29)

Christ was then, and still is, plundering Satan's "house."

You are taking that Matthew 12 Scripture OUT OF CONTEXT. Jesus was NOT using that to point to His future Millennial reign. So where did you come up with that idea? is that the Pop doctrine of the week at your Church, or something?


Matt 12:24-29
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."

The unbelieving Pharisees tried... to claim Jesus had a devil, and that that was how Jesus was able to cast out the devil in the verses above.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Simple idea Jesus asks them, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Then Jesus gets personal with them, as to how do their children then cast out devils, by what power and authority?

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

At Christ's 1st coming, "the kingdom of God" did come then, but in Spirit only. Christ's physical Kingdom will only come when He returns in the future.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

That above CONTEXT is still... about that matter there with the Pharisees accusing Jesus of casting out a devil by Beelzebub, and Jesus asking them how a house divided against itself can stand.

There is NOTHING THERE ABOUT SATAN BEING BOUND AT THAT TIME.

Thus it is WRONG to try and use that to point to the time of Jesus' 1st coming being when the "thousand years" of Rev.20 began.

 

[Davy]

The following Revelation 20 Scripture ENDS... all arguments of when Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect will begin...

Rev 20:1-5
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Archangel Michael is who boots Satan and his angels out of the heavenly for end per Rev.12:7-9, so this angel here is most likely also Michael that binds Satan in chains at the start of Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Jesus returns.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

At that time is when Satan will be literally... 'bound'...

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

... and he is then cast into that pit prison for the "thousand years" time of Christ's future reign.

Now notice what events are linked with the time... of that future event of Satan being bound in the pit...

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

That links the WHEN... of Satan being 'bound' in chains in the pit. The saints that were beheaded LIVE and REIGN WITH CHRIST at that point of time!

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
KJV

Oh... no! That's the TIME of the FUTURE RESURRECTION that will happen ONLY on the future day of Christ's return!!


This is SO... EASY! if one simply stay with what is written there.

 

[PinSeeker]

You are taking that Matthew 12 Scripture OUT OF CONTEXT.

No, but you think I am; I understand that.

Jesus was NOT using that to point to His future Millennial reign.

I didn't say He was, Davy. You're taking me out of my own context, apparently. His direct implication there in Matthew 12 is that Satan has been bound, as evidenced by the fact that He was casting out demons, which, the Pharisees acknowledged. Here it is again:

"...a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to Him (Jesus), and He (Jesus) healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, 'Can this be the Son of David?' But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 'It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons. Knowing their thoughts, He (Jesus) said to them, 'Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons..." ~ it was, of course ~ "...then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.'"

Jesus was that someone ~ and still is, of course ~ and Satan is the "strong man" whose "house" was then ~ and is now ~ being plundered... and again, this would not be the case if Satan, the strong man, was not bound. And this has direct implications to the binding of Satan in Revelation 20, which, Davy, is the case during the millennium of Revelation 20.

But you disagree. Well, that's okay.

So where did you come up with that idea? is that the Pop doctrine of the week at your Church, or something?

LOL!

Matt 12:24-29
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."

The unbelieving Pharisees tried... to claim Jesus had a devil, and that that was how Jesus was able to cast out the devil in the verses above.

You know, I've said it before, but the King James, while not incorrect, can be misleading today just because of the antiquated language; in some places, it is just not readily accessible to our modern ears. and here is one of those places... I like the English Standard Version (ESV) or the New American Standard Bible (NASB):

• "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 'It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.'" (ESV)
• "But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, 'This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.'" (NASB)

Rather than "trying to claim Jesus had a devil," they ~ obviously ~ claimed Jesus was doing what He was doing (casting out demons) by Beelzebul (Satan) ~ by Satan's authority, in his name ~ for which, of course, Jesus refuted, rebuked, and corrected them.

At Christ's 1st coming, "the kingdom of God" did come then, but in Spirit only. Christ's physical Kingdom will only come when He returns in the future.

Well, it will be consummated, and it will fill the earth completely, when He returns, after the final Judgment. But at least you acknowledge that the Kingdom did come at Christ's first coming; that's a step in the right direction. As I'm sure you know, Davy, Jesus did acknowledge His very present Kingship several times, maybe most notably to Pontius Pilate just before His crucifixion. But He said His Kingdom and His Kingship was not and is not of this world... which does not mean that His Kingdom and His Kingship was not and is not in this world. The latter (in this world) He acknowledged explicitly several times.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first binds the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

That above CONTEXT is still... about that matter there with the Pharisees accusing Jesus of casting out a devil by Beelzebub, and Jesus asking them how a house divided against itself can stand.

There is NOTHING THERE ABOUT SATAN BEING BOUND AT THAT TIME.

Ohhhhh... yes there is... You even quote it here. To what the Pharisees acknowledged and said, Jesus said, "...if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man?" So He's saying, in effect, "I am casting out demons by the Spirit of God because I have entered the strong man's (Satan's) house and bound him and am carrying off his property." But you disagree. I understand. It's okay, Davy. It's okay.

Thus it is WRONG to try and use that to point to the time of Jesus' 1st coming being when the "thousand years" of Rev.20 began.

You think so, I get it. I think it's wrong to read Revelation 20 and think the "thousand years" hasn't begun and is still at some point in the future. But, that's okay. Really. It's okay. Neither one of us is a "bad Christian" (or a "bad"... something else) or will be "kicked out of heaven"... ...for holding the eschatological views we hold. What I don't get is this... well, militancy; there is no need for that.

Grace and peace to you.