Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[BarneyFife]

What the OSAS peoples won't tell you because they don't accept the validity of this is... God is NOT mocked... whatsoever a man sows, that shall He also reap he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8)

They'll agree that when one is born again they did sow to the spirit and reaped life... but then they deny and ignore the rest of Galatians 6:7-8 claiming if one sows to the flesh (sins) they do not rep corruption.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

And did you know we are supposed to fear God? Fear Him enough to NOT do sinful behavior because if we do, we reap corruption.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I was raised in an "eternal security" church and although I was taught that my salvation was irrevocable, every other sermon was about the punishment for sin and creating doubt as to whether one's salvation was sincere and legitimately received if they had any sin in their lives.

Your posts exhibit that all of the -isms you like to mock fit into the neat, tiny little boxes you store in your mind with their respective "peoples," as you call them, all parting their hair they same way.

You remind of a meme I once saw:

"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who actually do."

That's sarcasm.

Quoting Ecclesiastes 12:13 is the height of ironic absurdity coming from you, by the way.

.

 

[Behold]

OSAS heretics, can you explain?

Yes..

OSAS, is a cult concept, that originated with religious Jews, in Paul's Day.

They accused Paul of what these same Heretics today have rebranded as "Osas" or "license to sin".

JUDE, said... that these religious jews, created this idea that God's Grace, as a Free Gift, never earned, and never lost, is "licentiousness", being preached.

So, they subvert a believer's faith by causing them to believe this idea, this LIE.

In other words, when the Grace of God is taught correctly, its taught as a completed salvation, finished by Christ on the Cross.. that is Received by faith.

And this Salvation, removes the law, and establishes the believer as "made free from sin" and "As Christ IS, so are the born again in this World".

The CULT of OSAS, says....>"NO... that is license to sin".

And what is that really? Its just a very advanced form of Legalism that hates God's Grace, and rejects "the GIFT of Salvation"... and wants to replace it (subvert it)... with self effort that is self righteousness.

Paul teaches that these people who obsess with OSAS, as we understand it, are "subverted within themselves" to the point that he said to get them out of your church and keep them out., or they will become a STRIFE and ruin your congreatation.

Titus 3:10

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Read the Scriptures. I don't need to speculate about what is God's justice because the Bible says how it operates.

God doesn't need teologians points of view to adapt His justice to theirs; the only idea is laughable.

Is. 55:6 Search for Jehovah while he may be found.
Call to him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked man leave his way
And the evil man his thoughts;
Let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy on him,
To our God, for he will forgive in a large way.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So my ways are higher than your ways
And my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For just as the rain and the snow pour down from heaven
And do not return there until they saturate the earth, making it produce and sprout,
Giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.

Theologians and their theologies ... what a waste of time!
Isn't it what God thinks that we should worry about?

All we need to do is look to the law

cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word.

Who living or dead has met this condition? Who is not cursed?

Justice says there is a penalty for sin.. Justice carries out that equally and without partiality.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What the OSAS peoples won't tell you because they don't accept the validity of this is... God is NOT mocked... whatsoever a man sows, that shall He also reap he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8)

They'll agree that when one is born again they did sow to the spirit and reaped life... but then they deny and ignore the rest of Galatians 6:7-8 claiming if one sows to the flesh (sins) they do not rep corruption.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

And did you know we are supposed to fear God? Fear Him enough to NOT do sinful behavior because if we do, we reap corruption.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Your right God will not be mocked.

When he said whoever places their faith in him, will never perish, and live forever. It is his promise. not based on what we did. have done, or will do. But based on his assurance that he keeps his word and keeps his promises. based solely on his son.

Those who say God may not keep his promised based on what we may or may not do. They mock God..

 

[RedFan]

Justice says there is a penalty for sin.. Justice carries out that equally and without partiality.

I'm not so sure God carries out justice quite that way when it comes to imposing a penalty for sin. It is central to our human notions of justice that one person should not be punished for another’s transgressions. But in God’s scheme of justice there seems to be an exception for the children of a transgressor. Even though God enjoins the opposite on us (Deut. 24:16), it seems that God Himself is not skittish about punishing children and grandchildren for the sins of a father (Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, Deut. 5:9; but see Ezek. 18:20).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I do believe that is the truth. When christians sin they turn their back to God and choose to sin. If they repent of their sin and ask forgiveness continually when they sin, then they learn and grow spiritually. King David committed Adultery and Murder but did not run from the Lord. He (Psalm 51) returned to God and repented of his sins. God's response to that was, David is a man after God's own heart.

But if he did not repent for his sins and died without reconciling with the Lord, is he then condemned? He turned his back on the Lord. So I believe that's it's a good bet that he very well could be condemned if he dies without reconciliation. Dies in his sins. Plenty of warnings in scripture about being blotted out from the book of Life, spit out of Jesus's mouth, and on and on. Better to not take that chance and ask forgiveness, in some applied Wisdom of the Lord.

The Lord's blood and love for us covers a multitude of sins, right? So it's better to play it safe and ask for forgiveness and cling to the Lord. And Ye Have Not Because Ye Ask not...?

Makes sense to me. (I sure wouldnt want to be one of the ones that Jesus says, begone with you for I never knew you!) (Yikes!)

so then God goes back on his word?

Think about your last sentence.

"I never knew you"

This is not talking to people who were saved, and failed to repent of a in. These are people who God never knew,

Bug difference..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It sure does. It's a life and death struggle and is a huge risk for people to take. If God does really exist. So we must endeavor to choose to believe wisely because we can flee to a different country and the Lord is there. If we make or bed in Sheol, Behold, the Lord is there...!!

This should give us hope. because were can we go that God is not there. Making intercession for us

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The CULT of OSAS, says....>"NO... that is license to sin".

This is not true. It is the cult of arminian, or catholicism, or judaism, or any legalistic person who believes salvation can be lost that says OSAS is a licence to sin.

Not people who believe in OSAS, I have never heard of this.

OSAS says once you are saved, you are always saved.

This it in a nutshell..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm not so sure God carries out justice quite that way when it comes to imposing a penalty for sin. It is central to our human notions of justice that one person should not be punished for another’s transgressions. But in God’s scheme of justice there seems to be an exception for the children of a transgressor. Even though God enjoins the opposite on us (Deut. 24:16), it seems that God Himself is not skittish about punishing children and grandchildren for the sins of a father (Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, Deut. 5:9; but see Ezek. 18:20).

We need to look at the eternal judgment. And separate that from a result of sin here on earth. Adam sinned, and when he sin, the whole world fell, Us included, with him.

But when it comes to eternal justice. God is the pure judge.

If you fail to receive his gift. You will die in unbelief, and suffer your condemnation.

If you receive his gift in faith. You will not suffer the final judgment, you are no longer condemned.

that is the picture in its simplest forms

 

[Behold]

This is not true.

You need need to back up... @Eternally Grateful

You asked me to explain OSAS Heretics...

So, we understand that eternal security, is to be saved eternally, so, in that regard, OSAS, applied correctly, is True.
WE understand this....

But the HERETICS, use OSAS in a Subversive way..., (which was your question to me)... they use it incorrectly, deceptively, and it started when they came to Paul, and accused Paul of teaching "let us sin so Grace may abound".
JUDE wrote about them....also.
These JEWS twisted Paul's words, exactly as these deceived people (today) who obsess on THEIR = idea of OSAS, twist my words, or anyone's who is teaching "The GIFT of Salvation" and "the GIFT of Righteousness",

They dont believe that Salvation is a GIFT that is not earned and not kept.. by the person.
Their Salvation Theology rejects this Grace of God, and that is THEIR idea of OSAS.. That's how they teach it.

This was happening to Paul, long before the Catholics or the Arminians , were even here.

 

[Ritajanice]

Predestination means our salvation is as secure and settled as the God who selected us. If our inheritance is rooted in God—who chose us before the beginning of time—then we cannot fall away. We did nothing to gain it. We can do nothing to lose it (Rom. 8:31–39).

 

[RedFan]

We need to look at the eternal judgment. And separate that from a result of sin here on earth. Adam sinned, and when he sin, the whole world fell, Us included, with him.

But when it comes to eternal justice. God is the pure judge.

If you fail to receive his gift. You will die in unbelief, and suffer your condemnation.

If you receive his gift in faith. You will not suffer the final judgment, you are no longer condemned.

that is the picture in its simplest forms

Fair enough, but it still doesn't gainsay that God is unjust in punishing A for the sins of B -- at least as we humans reckon justice.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need need to back up... @Eternally Grateful

You asked me to explain OSAS Heretics...

So, we understand that eternal security, is to be saved eternally, so, in that regard, OSAS, applied correctly, is True.
WE understand this....

But the HERETICS, use OSAS in a Subversive way..., (which was your question to me)... they use it incorrectly, deceptively, and it started when they came to Paul, and accused Paul of teaching "let us sin so Grace may abound".
These JEWS twisted Paul's words, exactly as these deceived people who obsess on their idea of OSAS, twist my words, or anyone's who is teaching "The GIFT of Salvation">

This was happening to Paul, long before the Catholics or the Arminians , were even here.

I just asked you what you meant when you said OSAS where heretics.

I never asked what about people who take grace and make it a license to sin.. Even licentious people. I have never heard them say OSAS is a license to sin. so that is why I was confused about your statment. and wanted you to clarify.

Yes, I agree with you. Some people use OSAS as a license to sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Fair enough, but it still doesn't gainsay that God is unjust in punishing A for the sins of B -- at least as we humans reckon justice.

except for one instance.

God took out his wrath on person A (Christ) for person B (me)

 

[Behold]

I just asked you what you meant when you said OSAS where heretics.

And i explained it.. as the Heretics who Teach OSAS in the same way as those Jews who came against the early Church.

This is the same that you find on Forums who write "OSAS is a LIE"... Threads..

THOSE people, are the heretics..

Whereas, the people who understand Eternal Security, as The New Covenant, and the Blood Atonement, as Eternal Life "in Christ"....comprehend OSAS, correctly.

Here is the main thing.
OSAS, this bumper sticker...was not created by people who believe in Eternal Security.
It, this phrase... this OSAS... was created by people who REJECT Eternal Security.
Its this same group who created this phrase...>"License to Sin".. and this phrase.,. "Greasy Grace".

See that?
Those are your OSAS Heretics.

 

[RedFan]

except for one instance.

God took out his wrath on person A (Christ) for person B (me)

And that was justice? Believe me, as the beneficiary I'm not complaining! But objectively, punishing Christ for our sins is not what we normally think of as just. Even if Christ volunteered for the gig.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And i explained it.. as the Heretics who Teach OSAS in the same way as those Jews who came against the early Church.

This is the same that you find on Forums who write "OSAS is a LIE"... Threads..

THOSE people, are the heretics..

Whereas, the people who understand Eternal Security, as The New Covenant, and the Blood Atonement, as Eternal Life "in Christ"....comprehend OSAS, correctly.

Here is the main thing.
OSAS, this bumper sticker...was not created by people who believe in Eternal Security.
It, this phrase... this OSAS... was created by people who REJECT Eternal Security.
Its this same group who created this phrase...>"License to Sin".. and this phrase.,. "Greasy Grace".

See that?
Those are your OSAS Heretics.

They are not OSAS though..

OSAS is not a cult

When you call people OSAS heritics. It appears you are saying those who believe in OSAS (eternal security) are heretics. (need to watch our language)

Like I said, I agree with you, Although I always understood OSAS to be a Calvin saying.. which is where the term came from, and why it is hated and attacked so strongly by legalists.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And that was justice? Believe me, as the beneficiary I'm not complaining! But objectively, punishing Christ for our sins is not what we normally think of as just. Even if Christ volunteered for the gig.

correct.

But we have the picture through out the word.

The animal killed to cover our nakedness
The many sin offerings
and the day of atonement,

Its called redemption. Our freedom was purchased.. It is a hard concept. which is why I think so many reject it. it hurts our pride..

 

[Behold]

OSAS is not a cult

"OSAS" , was not created by believers who understand Grace.

This phrase, "OSAS" was created by people who reject Eternal Security.
So, its a doctrine that rejects Eternal Life in Christ.
And if you are one of those who are mentally caught by this OSAS ( means = License to sin), deception, then you will be on Forums trying to prove that Eternal Security is a LIE.
These cultist's preach it from their pulpits. .. THEY teach "OSAS, means LICENSE TO SIN">..

Understand?

So, that is a CULT Mindset, that teaches that OSAS, that they created .. is to try to prove that Eternal Security is not true.
They are a CULT.

Who is in this Cult?
Everyone who teaches that OSAS = MEANS.... "license to sin" as that is how THEY TEACH "OSAS"...
Its not how we would teach it, because we are not in that cult mindset.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"OSAS" , was not created by believers who understand Grace.

This phrase, "OSAS" was created by people who reject Eternal Security.
So, its a doctrine that rejects Eternal Life in Christ.
And if you are one of those who are mentally caught by this OSAS ( means = License to sin), deception, then you will be on Forums trying to prove that Eternal Security is a LIE.
These cultist's preach it from their pulpits. .. THEY teach "OSAS, means LICENSE TO SIN">..

Understand?

So, that is a CULT Mindset, that teaches that OSAS, that they created .. is to try to prove that Eternal Security is not true.
They are a CULT.

Who is in this Cult?
Everyone who teaches that OSAS = MEANS.... "license to sin" as that is how THEY TEACH "OSAS"...
Its not how we would teach it, because we are not in that cult mindset.

The letter of Hebrews serves a purpose. Do not draw back to perdition but believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39) If OSAS was not true, then Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14 serves no purpose.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever?

Is Dan against eternal security? He sure preaches OSAS, and claims it is the word of God.

how about this guy?

Please quote an OSAS believer who at any time said this garbage. OSAS comes from the plain words of Scripture that Jesus paid for all of a persons sins not just some %

He believes OSAS comes from the plain word.

I think we need to be careful when we judge things..

Even if those against eternal security coined the phrase. There are many people who old dear that what OSAS represents is true.