Jesus lied?
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Let’s look at it from a different perspective.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Anyone can say “your sins are forgiven” but where’s the proof? But if one says get up and walk and the person does, we know the sins are forgiven because the instructions of getting up to walk is a stronger evidence then simply saying “your sins are forgiven…
And only God can forgive sins, which makes this a declaration of Jesus claiming to be God.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Anyone can say “your sins are forgiven” but where’s the proof? But if one says get up and walk and the person does, we know the sins are forgiven because the instructions of getting up to walk is a stronger evidence then simply saying “your sins are forgiven…
And only God can forgive sins, which makes this a declaration of Jesus claiming to be God.
Did Jesus really lie when He said this?
I know many will join Satan in the lake of fire prepared for them.
But, there is another twist which isn't added to the limited canon, the closed canon in which no new revelation can be added, that is, given by God and defiantly cannot be received by us.
For this is forbidden, forbidden knowledge, secret knowledge which could be dangerous. Dangerous because it could be from the devil. The devil is the father of lies. You will believe those lies and be deceived. Being deceived you will deceive others. And for that we will have to cut you off, considering you a heretic or an enemy of God and treat you accordingly. We will have no choice but to hand you over to Satan.
Is this what anyone wants?
Weigh up the risk. Weigh up the cost. Is it worth being open to hearing from God outside the bible at the expense of being cut off, rejected, despised, your name being evil spoken of.
My response to that is a resounding YES!!!
Jesus disciples experience this, and from the very beginning, the very first one took the risk of hearing from this heretic, prince of demons, false prophet and decided to follow Him.
One twist in this amazing script of God which was imagined and is now being carried out before our very eyes, is that one time in eternity every being will turn to their Creators and find forgiveness, mercy, grace and experience the love of God in Jesus the Lamb Who's blood will cleanse us ALL.
Now that is the greatest news I have ever come to see.
Is that within the covers of the bible? No. Is it the truth? Absolutely. This is beyond the limited account of God's story in the bible book. His story is without end as He is without end or beginning.
I am baffled as to why people want to contain God and His ways within a book.
This offends me. Me who has found Him outside, way outside the confines of that book or any other book. How much more is the infinite, all knowing Spirit of God, sent to us to impart all Truth, offended. He is being pushed away, rejected, labelled an evil spirit When He has come to give the free gift of divine truth.
Why is the Spirit of Truth blasphemed, shown contempt, rejected by the very ones He came to bless.
God have mercy on them who treat Your Spirit like this. Open their eyes to see Him Who they have despised and rejected that they will repent and embrace Him, Your divine gift to us.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
If you are refering to recalling what Jesus said when Jesus was on earth, nor do I as I wasn't there.
If you are referring to the limited recorded account of His life on earth, the bible, then,
Matthew 25:41 which I was responding to from a previous post,
Rev 20:15
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, respectfully disagree; we need to be Very Careful how we treat The
Precious Preserved/Pure Word Of God's Truth, because God Himself Commands:
"man Shall Not live by bread alone, But By EVERY WORD That
Proceedeth Out Of The Mouth Of God!" (Matt 4:4; Luk 4:4)
Thus, God Offers Many Pure, Preserved Written (1Co 4:6) Scriptures About:Handling The Word Of Life
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In The Lord
Jesus Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
Amen.
Thanks. And this is what is so amazing. God's thoughts expressed in word give life to those He has chosen to enlighten. And to know that God's words are constantly being spoken to us by His Spirit of Truth ever since He arrived on earth and started entering into humans. And to be recipients of divine truths that come straight from God in heaven to us, again is so amazing.
Would you agree that God's thoughts expressed through 50 different people (Orthodox Tewahedo Bible) or Catholic Bible (45) or even fewer again who contributed to the 66 book bible (40) were NOT the only ones that God chose to give His truths to exclusively over a 6000 year period?
Didn't God preserve many writings as well as what was compiled in the bibles in existence today? Because there were many more writings that have lasted (been preserved) for a thousand years or more by the sovereign will of God including the Pyramid Texts (2400–2300 BCE)
through to the Quran (610- 632 CE).
What do mean by the phrase, Handling The Word Of Life?
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I'm not sure what you are encouraging and edifying others in. Is it the eternal Person of Jesus Christ and the eternal Person of the Spirit of Truth or is it in a book? If its the book, then no thanks. If you are referring to the Persons of God, the Creators, then absolutely!
1 Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Do not go beyond what is written in your heart.
It cannot mean what is written on stone or paper. Even the limited info in the bible shows it cannot mean this.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, No, I would not agree:
Isa_34:16 "Seek ye out of The Book of The LORD, and read..." =
Only ONE 'Book' = The Authorized (KJB) Version:Handling The Word Of Life
Is a study 'link' for ↑ how to love, treat, and handle With The Utmost Care, The ONE Book!
Because "What Saith The Scriptures?":
"God is Not the author of confusion!..." (1 Corinthians 14:33 AV)
.................................................... ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑this belongs to the "Over 100 so-called New modern-day
'easier-to-read and understand' versions that are Ever-Changing [ to "make filthy lucre"? ]
Thus, I will stay With God (Jesus) Who Is "...The SAME, yesterday, Today, And
Forever," (Hebrews 13:8 AV) And:
His ONE Book, That Is Eternally "Settled In Heaven Forever," Which He Graciously PRESERVED
For me, to hear, have faith In Him, and learn how to "live For HIM," by "HIS Every Precious WORD!!"
Amen!
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to your take on 'the bible' concerning 'your opinion'?
JOH 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Agreed with all you said, but have a question on this one point. WHO does the book/bible say the 'Lake of fire" was made for?
MAT 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
So, it appears that the "Lake o f fire" was 'prepared' for 'the devil and his angels here, but no one else is mentioned. Then in this next verse we read.
REV 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So what do you make of the addition of people in this Rev. verse but people were left out of the Matt. verse?
It obviously wasn't an 'after thought' from the ominscient God, but what are your thoughts?
Jesus said BILLIONS of humans will spend eternity with Satan in Hell fire.
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
What if this was 'written' in the bible?
JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.
We have a lot of Holdeman Mennonites in our area. They too are very much KJV only...brethren that I love and respect. I was trying to gently talk to one of their older women in my office one day concerning their 'opinion' versus my 'opinion'. And I asked in a moment of silence; 'seeking a WORD from the MOUTH of God'. Do you know what I believe I heard? "Ask her why the NAME on the book wasn't GOD'S VERSION instead of KING JAMES?" I thought that was a pretty good WORD from His mouth personally.
She must have too, because she looked like a cow staring at a new gate. I don't mean that disrespectfully at all either.
I'll add some more thoughts here now, since I do love KJV and several other translations, and some I don't like, and some I kind of hate. Father forgive me for that....or reward me on the day of judgment for my discernment...however that all works out.
THOUGHTS
JER 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
-One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called CORRECTOORES were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."
One of the oldest copies of the Bible which dates back to the fifth century is the Codex Bezae, of which the Britannica writes: "Codex Bezae… has a text that is very different from other witnesses. Codex Bezae has many distinctive longer and shorter readings and seems almost to be a separate edition. Its 'Acts, for example, is one-tenth longer than usual’". How can we have a Bible that is said to be "almost… a separate edition"?
347-420 St. Jerome when he wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).
But we're off topic and I really don't have anything else I want to say about this.
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Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Did He really?
Young's LITERAL Translation.disagrees along with a hundred other bibles This was the same Young who wrote YOUNG"S Hebrew/Greek Concordance for the Bible. But Strong's became more popullar because his definition agreed with the TIMES he LIVED IN theologically more than the TIMES it was WRITTEN.
MAT 25:41* Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
As as the word HELL coming out of the MOUTH of Jesus????? Pretty doubtful. Especially since the WORD HELL wasn't even invented until?????? 725 AD
ONE source;
"Hell, Hades, Tartarus, Gehinnom. The word 'Hell' is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word hellia (derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD) that is used in the King James version of the Bible to capture the Jewish concept of 'Gehanna' as the final destination of the wicked. Oct 16, 2019
Yes He did!
Mt 7 Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be who find it.
Once there were a few guys who came up with the idea of building a rail road from the city to the wild west/outback. One was an entrepreneur from the city, another a farmer from out west and another an engineer.
The purpose for building this rail road was twofold.
For the entrepreneur, it was to create an opportunity for people to start a new life and with endless possibilities.
For the farmer, it was to create the opportunity for buisnesses to transport their goods, including livestock.
Was this railroad built and created to transport dirty, stinky animals? According to the farmer, he will say yes, it was prepared for the farmers and their animals.
Was this railroad built and created to transport humans? According to the entrepreneur, he will say yes, it was prepared for humans.
It depends who is speaking and what point they are trying to make.
Of course, the rail road is made and prepared for the farmer and his animals.
But it doesn't mean it's not prepared for humans as well.
Because the fact is the visionaries foresaw, designed and created it in preparation to accommodate both.
Not sure if this makes sense to you.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Philosophically it does "make sense" to me. As to the scriptural based question I asked, not so much.
I was hoping for more of a 'spiritual truth' analogy backed with even more scripture than I just shared, asking the question. IOW, something plumbing the depths of what you shared that 'WE' apparently hold in common. Hope that makes sense to you. ;)
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
You obviously did nothing to back why MY scriptural quote disagrees with your scriptural quote. And you obviously didn't deal with how Jesus could have SPOKEN the word HELL out of his mouth when that word didn't even exist until 775 AD. There are THREE, 3 Greek words that get translated as HELL in the NT. None of them have the same definition in either Strong's or Young's GREEK DICTIONARY.
KJV MAT 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of HELL fire.
YLT
MAT 5:22 but I - I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the GEHENNA of the fire.
KJV LUK 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to HELL.
YLT LUK 10:15* 'And thou, Capernaum, which unto the heaven wast exalted, unto HADES thou shalt be brought down.
KJV 2PE 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to HELL, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
YLT 2PE 2:4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast {them} down to TARTARUS, did deliver {them} to judgment, having been reserved,
So, your bible has one word for 3 different HELLS in my YLT. WHY?
The KJV has the word HELL in it 54 times. YOUR newer bible translation has it in there either 12, 13 or 14 times....WHY?
Answer all my questions or don't bother answering at all. Because it appears to me, that it just won't be fruitful.
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