Everyone Goes to Heaven

[Harold]

Imagine a world where people are discriminated against because of the color of their skin. That’s racism.



Now, imagine a world where people online are discriminated against because of the color of their username. That’s how Christian Infernalists have been treated on the Christian Universalist Discord Server.



I’ve been a Christian Universalist for years. I’ve posted on many different online forums talking about it. Christianityboard.com Christianforums.com Christianforums.net City-data.com Tentmaker.org Worthychristianforums.com r/ChristianUniversalists. I’m tired of the debate, the fighting. Would it not be more useful to just talk things out?



Have you noticed that when Christian Universalists refer to the debate, they call themselves “Christian Universalists” and the opposition simply “Infernalists”. The drop of the “Christian” title is subtle, but speaks volume to how they feel.



My view is that Christian Universalists, Christian Annihlationists and Christian Infernalists are all Christians. Whether a Christian believes in Universalism, Annihlationism or Infernalism, it has nothing to do with their own salvation, it’s not a salvation issue, and to say otherwise is literally Gnosticism. We must believe in Christ to be permanently saved. All 3 of those camps can have that same view. The question is just how many will be able to believe in Christ.



How many set their role as “Hopeful Universalist” out of fear of being discriminated against for believing in Christian Infernalism? How many Christian Infernalists are afraid of getting dogpiled and ganged up on by Christian Universalists for freely voicing out their opinions.



Do people freely choose to believe in Christian Universalism or Christian Annihlationism or Christian Infernalism? I don’t think so. All of us are led to believe in what we feel is true based on the evidence presented to us. But no matter what camp we believe in, the fact of the matter is, what’s been true has always been true. What has been the nature of God will always be the nature of God.



Malachi 3:6 NRSVue For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, have not perished.



Since Christian Universalists believe that everyone will become believers in Christ, they also believe that everyone will go to Heaven. But what is their view of Heaven? For an individual Christian Universalist, they could imagine Heaven as a place where all of their opinions are correct. The danger with this Christian Universalist mindset is when they hold horrible beliefs, like that of the multiple Homophobic Christian Universalists that I have met online.



If you think homosexuality is a sin, you are homophobic. If you think being transgender is a sin, you are transphobic. If you think being queer is a sin, you are queerphobic.



Though the intention of these quotes is to talk about Christian Universalism, I still believe it important to promote LGBTQIA+ Affirmation. Because for the Homophobic Christian Universalists, who see being gay as a “sin” (even though it’s not), they will perceive their Universal Heaven as Universally Homophobic. Imagine that Universalist Homophobes Heaven where those who are gay are discriminated against for what they were born as forever. If Homosexuality is a sin (though it’s not), then Christian Universalism makes it worse, because everyone is essentially forced under that framework. Christian Universalism, just like Christian Infernalism and Christian Annilhationism, exists as a tool, and any one of them can be used for great evil.



And for those who happen to set their role on the server as “Universalist”, would you as a Universalist be more likely to trust their opinion, just because they are a Universalist?



Halo effect - Wikipedia



“The halo effect (sometimes called the halo error) is the tendency for positive impressions of a person, company, country, brand, or product in one area to positively or negatively influence one's opinion or feelings in other areas.” End quote

Will you avoid listening to a different opinion of an Infernalist, just because they are an Infernalist and you are a Universalist? Imagine, you who are Homophobic Universalists, found that there was a LGBTQIA+ Affirming Infernalist? Will you ignore this Infernalist’s opinion on those who are LGBTQIA+, though it is correct?



The danger with Christian Universalism is what I call an “Internal Intellectual Contagion” (named after the psychological concept of Emotional Contagion). Because Christian Universalism is a rarer belief compared to Mainstream Infernalism, those who are Christian Universalists may fall into the trap of thinking that, just because they think they have the correct viewpoint in one opinion, that all of their opinions are correct, no matter how horrible. And then their version of Heaven becomes subconsciously constructed as a reality where everyone is forced to be under these horrible opinions.



Given the choice between a Homophobic Universalist’s Heaven and an LGBTQIA+ Affirming Infernalist’s Hell, which would you choose? For myself, I gladly reject any form of Heaven that is homophobic or transphobic or queerphobic, yes even if that Heaven is a Christian Universalism Heaven. For that “Heaven” is not truly Heaven at all and I will not be satisfied with any form of Heaven that is anything less than absolute goodness, love and perfection.



Even if God is a God of Christian Universalism, I will gladly reject that God if they are homophobic or transphobic or queerphobic. For a perfect Christian Universalism Heaven to exist, it must be LGBTQIA+ Affirming. This is non-negotiable. Otherwise, any form of a Christian Universal Heaven that is not LGBTQIA+ Affirming will essentially be another form of a Christian Infernalist’s Hell.

 

[Jack]

If you think homosexuality is a sin, you are homophobic. If you think being transgender is a sin, you are transphobic. If you think being queer is a sin, you are queerphobic.

How long have you hated the Christian Bible?

1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Even if God is a God of Christian Universalism, I will gladly reject that God if they are homophobic or transphobic or queerphobic. For a perfect Christian Universalism Heaven to exist, it must be LGBTQIA+ Affirming. This is non-negotiable. Otherwise, any form of a Christian Universal Heaven that is not LGBTQIA+ Affirming will essentially be another form of a Christian Infernalist’s Hell.

You desperately need help! God called gays SHAMEFUL and VILE!

Romans 1
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful,

 

[Harold]

This’ll be a quick one, since I’ve been busy doing stats work with Jamovi. Today Nov 17 2023 around 3:39 PM after my shower my mother tells me "You're gonna get sick, you're gonna die". My sister from her room tells my mother to be quiet.



```Romans 8:18 NRSVue I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us. ```



I'd just doing ordinary things and my mother would make comments like that. I've lost track of how many. Still, even though all people will die eventually, eventually all people will have faith alone in Christ and be permanently saved. And Heaven will be a place with no more sickness.

 

[Jack]

I'd just doing ordinary things and my mother would make comments like that. I've lost track of how many. Still, even though all people will die eventually, eventually all people will have faith alone in Christ and be permanently saved. And Heaven will be a place with no more sickness.

If the Bible is true you're telling a WHOPPER!

 

[Philip James]

Even if God is a God of Christian Universalism, I will gladly reject that God if they are homophobic or transphobic or queerphobic. For a perfect Christian Universalism Heaven to exist, it must be LGBTQIA+ Affirming. This is non-negotiable. Otherwise, any form of a Christian Universal Heaven that is not LGBTQIA+ Affirming will essentially be another form of a Christian Infernalist’s Hell.

 

[Harold]

Theories in Cognitive Consistency are defined as “… the assumption that people are motivated to seek coherent attitudes, thoughts, beliefs, values, behaviors, and feelings. If these are inconsistent, they will produce a "tension state" in the individual, and motivate the individual to reduce this tension.

Cognitive Consistency Theories | Encyclopedia.com



When I was a Christian Infernalist, what motivated me to research about the nature of an eternal hell and become a Christian Annihlationist, then later a Christian Universalist, all those years ago? It was not out of a desire to find what was good, nor was it to pursue what was just and merciful, but rather to resolve an internal “tension state” in my mind.



I saw how a person’s sin was finite and how it would be incoherent to view the punishment of that sin as infinite, so I seeked to resolve my internal “tension state” with the idea that the punishment for sin must also be finite, leading me to Christian Annihlationism. Though, some Christian Infernalists may also resolve this “tension state” with the idea that the sin is directed at an infinite God, so the punishment would need to be infinite. However, that would imply that literally everyone would have to burn in hell forever, because all would have infinite sin towards God, and begs the question of why God would even sacrifice Himself on the cross to pay for sin, to essentially put an end to punishment, if it would have to be infinite anyways? Because Christ died for all, either everyone is saved, or no one is.



But I also realized that, under Christian Annihlationism, the punishment for sin still remains “infinite”, essentially an “infinite death”. God created us all in the image of Himself, and since God is love, our natural state is to be loved and to love others. Both Christian Infernalism and Christian Annihlationism stop this love because there is no fear in love because fear has to do with punishment 1 John 4:18. So I was lead into another “tension state” that made me to seek coherence through Christian Universalism. These “tension states” can also be referred to as internal afflictions.



```Romans 5:3-5 NRSVue And not only that, but we also boast in our afflictions, knowing that affliction produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. ```



sufferings, θλίψεσιν (thlipsesin) Strong's 2347: Persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation. From thlibo; pressure. Notice that word… pressure.



Stress

“Stress is our body's response to pressure.”



That feeling when you’re looking for an answer to something online, but you can’t find it, no matter how many browser tabs you have open. Did you choose to experience that emotion? You did not. It was God, who gave you that psychological desire for knowledge, who decided to have you experience that “tension state”. There is my own curiosity that pushes me to type out yet another article for my website, no matter how I try to fight it. This curiosity is suffering. I cannot resist the urge to continue searching. I am controlled.



If we assume that Christian Universalism is true, then under this psychological concept, it makes sense why there are people who believe in Christian Infernalism and Christian Annihlationism. Because for them, they have fuflilled their Psychological Need for Order and Structure, a need we all have to a certain extent, but to varrying degrees. For some Christian Infernalists, they may see the word “forever” in the Bible (really OT olam and NT aionion, both pertaining to an age) and be cognitively satisfied. Because we do not choose our beliefs, our psychology controls us and it decides not only what we believe, but whether we’re even interested to learn about beliefs in the first place.



All of you who are Christian Universalists, you did not “choose” to learn about Christian Universalism, but rather, each of you were put into a psychological state of internal suffering which pushed you into believing it. Those who are Christian Infernalists are either



1) passive in their beliefs, they adopted it because it’s main stream and have not thought much about it or are

2) active in their beliefs, but they have found a solution that satisfies their own cognition in which the tension state is resolved.



I see Christian Universalism as a just and merciful course of action. However, when I became a Christian Universalist, I did not willingly choose to believe in it out of a desire for justice and mercy, but rather, because I was put into a “tension state” and I wanted to resolve the “tension state”. If I was not put into that “tension state” then I would have not believed in Christian Universalism, no matter how much I desired justice and mercy.



So I tell you all to be kind to Christian Infernalists. Just as we did not choose to believe in what we believe, neither did they. But I remain confident that eventually all people will believe in Christ and will be saved. Because it is the LORD God who has created all of our psychologies, the psychologies that control us, and who continues to control us still.

 

[Jack]

So I tell you all to be kind to Christian Infernalists. Just as we did not choose to believe in what we believe, neither did they. But I remain confident that eventually all people will believe in Christ and will be saved. Because it is the LORD God who has created all of our psychologies, the psychologies that control us, and who continues to control us still.

You're leading LGBTQ's to Hell fire. You will be held accountable. You're LYING to them and to yourself.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Harold]

Today Nov 19 2023 my sister had a piano recital from the Royal Conservatory of Music to celebrate the fact that she got a gold medal for her piano work. My mother then ruined this celebration due to her abuse.



It was around 2:31 PM when, after my sister had performed on the stage and the recital had ended, that my mother referred to herself as l pushy and said that we don't like it and I could see like a pained expression from my sister as my grandfather and grandmother laughed along with my mother.



It’s like my mother was trying to get people on her side by wording her side of the story as nicely as possible, even though she’s been emotionally and verbal abusing her own children for years.



Yes, my mother was going on another one of her rants this time along the rows of these grey chairs inside of the Winnipeg art gallery. my sister had won a gold medal award for her level 5 piano and it was like my mother was still





But then my mother starts talking right now as I edit this on 8:38 PM because she watches me







“I thought you were a Christian. Your logic is wrong.” my mother tells me, saying that I don’t have that wisdom.



She then starts shouting at me telling me to tell what she says to my friends.



“So what do you want to say” I tell my mother and I show her the TV Screen



So let me type her words. “You can even have this as a message to the Discord Server, your thoughts?” I tell her.



So, my mother says “I’m not telling them to pray I’m telling you you guys have to pray. Pray for your safety and pray for this family. That God will bless us and the Holy Spirit will dwell here in this family in this household. That’s all you have to pray. I want you to pray for that.”



“Alright” I say to my mother who is sitting on the wooden stairs in the basement. “That can be your message to the Discord Server”. And my mother stares at me with a blank expression and then goes upstairs.



I’m assuming since she knew she was being recorded that she purposely worded that quote to sound nice.





Now back to my description of what happened today.



_____________________________________________



Then around 2:53 PM going to Stella’s my sister tells me that she finds it weird that my mother brought this up. I tell her I noticed her [my sister's] expression I described above and she tells me she finds my mother fake behavior unsettling. I agree with her and tell her it's like a mask my mother has



The scary thing is when my mother uses the word "discipline" she includes physical abuse in that definition, which I am against, because she sees the physical abuse she got from her father with this same discipline word.



Then around 3:04 PM there was a nearby rally related to the ongoing Israel Hamas conflict. So, my grandfather and my father were there and my grandfather tells me in Stella’s a controversial opinion. My stance is that I am against the crimes of the Israel government and I am also against Hamas. The state of Israel has literally mass murdered so many people and…





_____________________________________________





Aughh…. I get interrupted again in my editing because my mother came downstairs.





So, I explained to my mother that the Israeli government had actually personally funded Hamas in order to undermine Palestine. And that the Hamas isn’t even a Palestinian leader.



Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

This website features a graph from the United Nations that the vast majority of deaths and injuries are suffered by Palestinians vs Israelis



https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties#



From 01/01/2008 Palestinian Fatalities: 6,542, Israeli Fatalities: 309, Palestinian Injuries: 155,716, Israeli Injuries: 6,331



Now tell me, what’s the bigger number here, 6,542 or 309. 155,716 or 6,331? Look, Hamas is bad. But Israel has been bombing hospitals, they’ve been bombing people who are trapped, Israel is an apartheid state that has been committing many war crimes. Waaaaayyyyy more Palestinians have suffered than Israelis.



Then my mother starts to insult the indigenous people in Canada and discriminates against them asking why they get money from the government to support their education.

Grants and contributions to support the First Nations Post-Secondary Education Strategy



So I told her about the physical and sexual abuse of indigenous children that was literally directly funded by the Canadian Government.

https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/IPS_Boarding_Schools.pdf from the United Nations, Page 9. States that “Children were also physically and sexually abused. In 1990, the Special Advisor to the Minister of National Health and Welfare on Child Sexual Abuse stated that in some schools, 100 percent of children were sexually abused”. Trigger warning for that article by the way, because it was an disgustingly extreme amount of abuse.



My mother’s logic confuses me. Like… why is she getting upset about the Canadian Government supporting the people they funded widescale systematic abuse towards? In all honesty, considering the large amount of racism Indigenous people have to face, I think they should be getting more government support if anything. Give them free education, and cancel all their student debt as well while you’re at it.



And I felt myself shaking physically and my head was very tense while my mother harassed me and it went for so long that my sister came back from the party she attended. This has happened so many times when my mother has her “conversations” with me but a lot of it’s just one-sided angry rants from her that I just have to sit there and bear, typing it out though, it does shock even me that I’ve had to go through this for years and years and years.



My mother says reconciliation and hugs my sister and then I say that my mother was harassing me for most of the time that my sister was at her party. So, then my mother starts harassing both of us. She calls my sister fake and shouts at us.



“For once stop doing it again. Thank you. Those hugs and those reconciliation and those sorrys only mean something if you’re not going to do it again. You have to respect me to. Who’s the one yelling? Who’s the one angry right now? We’re allowed to talk to people about things when you get mad. You have to admit you get angry. You get angry. And I don’t like it.” my sister tells my mother upstairs.



My mother was saying that the words that I type are abusive, saying that I talk to her calmly, but then type out how I feel. She wants me to not tell other people about what happens, saying it’s for her privacy. But, imagine a patient not being able to tell their therapist the abuse they suffered because their abuser says they want privacy?



And my mother says that she has the freedom of speech to be mad. But this does not give her the right to verbally abuse others.



The time is now 11:10 PM so I’m going back to my editing. So line cut off, back to the event I was describing today:



__________________________________



Then my father says the rally is to stop the bombing of hospitals by the Israel government. So yeah, by that definition, I agree and support the rally. So I say that a ceasefire would be good. Then I order the thai curry.



My grandfather says he's a Christian who shot 2 people and that he's very convincing and would be go travel and bag hamas. I hope he's joking. Then my grandfather goes on about wanting to kill a sasquatch and how if people come to his door he’s going to put on his black belt on them. And my sister went to a Jonas brother’s concert.

 

[Harold]

Then outside of the cafe we see people waving flags, the police and an ambulance.



I tell my family that I agree that the Israel government should stop bombing hospitals and that a ceasefire is good. So I'd say a ceasefire rally is a good cause. My sister agrees saying that a ceasefire is good. My grandmother agrees a ceasefire would be good too.



Then my grandfather says that I had written something about my grandmother on my phone so I tell him I'm trying to find 10 people to complete my SCE Lifeworks survey for my group since there's like 5 of us, 40 people in total to get for the survey.



Then after my grandmother and my grandfather leaves (my grandfather is homophobic and I am against homophobia, so watch out), my sister tells my mother “Genuinely you made me feel so sad. can you just be happy for once stop trying to push push push. Say something else besides... discipline. I wasn’t agreeing with you I was just standing there listening.



And my mother was shouting at us on the street and is screaming at us in the car while my father is driving and I’m typing this on my phone.



My mother says "You're telling everyone how bad I am" and my sister replies saying that’s because my mother is.



"You're telling me how in front of your friends that I didn’t do anything good to you? And of your friends that didn’t of well raising you up there gonna hear something from me. Don’t ever me frankly telling you.” my mother says



"And your weird mama you get mad for no reason" my sister replying saying that she's telling her friends this because its the truth.



"You’re telling these lies. That I’m a bad person. Do you think they’re gonna believe you. Theres a twist there. Twisted" my mother says



"They're not lies. You sound insane mama" my sister says



“Thats not discipline that’s verbal abuse” I say





You know when you’re telling on you chat and talking about discipline you blocked that person” my mother says, referring to the incident on the Christian Universalists Discord Server where there was a user that said spanking children is discipline so I rebuked them saying that spanking children is child abuse, they are now banned. However, my mother was watching me warn the user and they were cheering this now banned user on.



“That person that was banned from that Discord they were promoting child abuse, physically hitting children as "discipline" is not "discipline" i tell my mother.” I reply to her



"They know you for who you really are" my sister tells my mother.



"Things will not go well for you. And when that happens how that happens. If you don’t respect me.” My mother replies



"Even when I become an engineer, I’m not going to apologize for my feeling. Stop talking over me, mama" my sister tells my mother.



“You started this mama. If you just celebrated [sister name] accomplishment…” I say to my mother who’s been screaming for so long



"Go away stop go away. But stop saying that as if it’s a punishment. You should be loving either way and you are not"



“Stop using that word discipline to mask your behavior” I say to my mother



"You call me evil. You call me devil." My mother says to which I reply “We dont call you devil”



My mother then says “Disaster will happen to you guys! You're not grateful for what I did to you. Your friends that what you see that’s what you do here in life.”



My mother then starts shouting the word "Infernalist" and I tell her that I’m a universalist. I’m getting confused.



"Now you're hysterical" my sister says.



“Can you get diagnosed I’m trying to say in the most blatant nicest way possible” my sister says



"We shouldn’t be doing anything to earn love, love should be the default state" I tell my mother showing her that my sister and I have been trying to support her for years.



Then my mother says that she was hit as a child and that she turned out fine, but then I tell her that she's justifying child abuse so she did not turn out fine.



So I tell my mother that I want to help her to stop this suffering she’s creating for herself. That I love and still care for her. That's why I’ve been talking things out with her for years. I explain to her that I am against her abuse, but that I still love her as a person.



"I love you because I still care for you mama. That's why I still type these messages. Day by day. these quotes for the server. So I can continue to get their advice and continue to help, I won't completely abandon you mama, that's for sure". I tell my mother.



Cognitively I know that its the right thing to do, to still love her, but physically my body still feels afraid, but that's natural considering the abuse she’s put me through for over a decade.



It’s quite the contrast, a yelling mother screaming about disaster with a calm (externally, but internally I am afraid) son saying how much he cares for her.



"I do love you" my sister says



That’s what I like about Christian Universalism. Because it’s the agape love of God realized. God loves everyone and God wants to save everyone 1 Timothy 2:3-4, so therefore all will have faith only in Jesus Christ and thus gain permanent life.

```Psalm 36:5 NRSVue Your steadfast love, O Lord, extends to the heavens, your faithfulness to the clouds. ```

 

[Harold]

Hello everyone. I have decided to make this post “ass”-themed.

I’ve been looking through my Google Drive today Nov 20 2023 around 4:22 PM and found from the auditorium incident, yesterday, a scene I forgot to include. A lot happened on that day and I feel like I’ve spent most of the day just trying to process and recover from what happened, it’s been like a pain in the ass tbh.


So, my Christian Universalist sister had this kick ass speech, which I agree with, that I’ll include here

So, my sister says to my infernalist mother “You have issues I don’t want to hear you talk about me. You went all the way in my face and with that fake ass happiness. For some reason in you head you want grandma and grandpa to agree with you. I’m in a situation where I don’t want to start fighting you in the middle of an auditorium and that shouldn’t be a position that you're putting me in. I’m not going to do what you're doing and you're making passive aggressive comments. I was in a situation where I couldn’t say anything with my grandparents in an auditorium.”

Then my mother was getting upset that my sister used the word “ass”. You can say my mom’s got like a stick up her ass. But like, first of all, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with using vulgar language. Here’s a good post from a Christian Universalist friend of mine that goes over it well: ‘Swear words’: should one repent after dropping an f-bomb?

I also tell my mother that the word “ass” literally appears in translations of the Bible

```Genesis 16:12 NRSVue He shall be a wild ass of a man, with his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him, and he shall live at odds with all his kin.” ```

```Genesis 49:11 YLT Binding to the vine his ass, And to the choice vine the colt of his ass, He hath washed in wine his clothing, And in the blood of grapes his covering; ```

So, my sister says “All they see is this girl who’s smiling weirdly and making comments because they don’t know you but I know you”.



But who will know the LORD? Everyone. Since the beginning, Christ knew He’d come in to save my ass, that’s for sure. And Christ’s gonna save everybody. Cause who will believe in the LORD Christ? All people.

 

[Jack]

Hello everyone. I have decided to make this post “ass”-themed.

I’ve been looking through my Google Drive today Nov 20 2023 around 4:22 PM and found from the auditorium incident, yesterday, a scene I forgot to include. A lot happened on that day and I feel like I’ve spent most of the day just trying to process and recover from what happened, it’s been like a pain in the ass tbh.


So, my Christian Universalist sister had this kick ass speech, which I agree with, that I’ll include here

So, my sister says to my infernalist mother “You have issues I don’t want to hear you talk about me. You went all the way in my face and with that fake ass happiness. For some reason in you head you want grandma and grandpa to agree with you. I’m in a situation where I don’t want to start fighting you in the middle of an auditorium and that shouldn’t be a position that you're putting me in. I’m not going to do what you're doing and you're making passive aggressive comments. I was in a situation where I couldn’t say anything with my grandparents in an auditorium.”

Then my mother was getting upset that my sister used the word “ass”. You can say my mom’s got like a stick up her ass. But like, first of all, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with using vulgar language. Here’s a good post from a Christian Universalist friend of mine that goes over it well: ‘Swear words’: should one repent after dropping an f-bomb?

I also tell my mother that the word “ass” literally appears in translations of the Bible

```Genesis 16:12 NRSVue He shall be a wild ass of a man, with his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him, and he shall live at odds with all his kin.” ```

```Genesis 49:11 YLT Binding to the vine his ass, And to the choice vine the colt of his ass, He hath washed in wine his clothing, And in the blood of grapes his covering; ```

So, my sister says “All they see is this girl who’s smiling weirdly and making comments because they don’t know you but I know you”.



But who will know the LORD? Everyone. Since the beginning, Christ knew He’d come in to save my ass, that’s for sure. And Christ’s gonna save everybody. Cause who will believe in the LORD Christ? All people.

Your main concern should be that Paul / Jesus said you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Ever heard of Hell fire?

 

[Harold]

There was a Ph.D researcher who was speaking this morning Nov 21 2023 about, when it comes to persuasion, when something sounds too good to be true, our minds may perceive it as suspicious, and in our head we could come up with counter arguments for it.



For Christian Universalism, the concept where everyone eventually becomes believers in Christ, for outsiders, does it sound too good to be true? Because quite literally everyone goes to Heaven… eventually.



But is there such a thing as “too bad to be true”? , like Christian Infernalism, where people are literally tortured forever.



So let’s make a random equation for fun. A little bit of silliness here.

Christian Universalism: Too good to be true. Vs. Christian Infernalism Too bad to be true



But to make it simpler, since this is in a Christian framework anyways, it’s a bit redundant to feature “Christian” here, no? So let’s just…



Universalism: Too good to be true. Vs. Infernalism Too bad to be true



Ehhhh, but, what the heck. We’re already removing some repeat words here, might as well remove some other ones too. What we got here… uhhh….. “Too”, “to”, “be” and “true” alright I can work with that. Voila.



Universalism: good. Vs. Infernalism bad



*shocked face emoji* owo

Look everyone, we did it!!!!111 universalism good!!!!111 Infernalism bad!!!!11 *phew* that’s a relief. After all these months making these Daily Quotes, I didn’t think it’d be that easy. But, luckily, happily, fortunately, things just happen to work out huh, would you look at that uwu

…

Ok ok ok but seriously. If you think about the complaint against Universalism where it’s “Too good to be true”, I think of another word that starts with “comp”, yes “compliment”. Cause there’s at least a level of “good” in it.



And can God ever be “too good”. It’s like… God’s goodness is so good that it goes beyond the concept of goodness that we can understand. But of course, this is all under the assumption that you see everyone getting saved as “good” and everyone not getting saved as “bad”. So, it kinda circles back lol, and this post’s more of a reinforcement one if anything. But it was just a lil silly goofy jolly thought I had I wanted to share.



```Psalms 107:1 NRSVue O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever. ```

 

[Jack]

There was a Ph.D researcher who was speaking this morning Nov 21 2023 about, when it comes to persuasion, when something sounds too good to be true, our minds may perceive it as suspicious, and in our head we could come up with counter arguments for it.



For Christian Universalism, the concept where everyone eventually becomes believers in Christ, for outsiders, does it sound too good to be true? Because quite literally everyone goes to Heaven… eventually.



But is there such a thing as “too bad to be true”? , like Christian Infernalism, where people are literally tortured forever.



So let’s make a random equation for fun. A little bit of silliness here.

Christian Universalism: Too good to be true. Vs. Christian Infernalism Too bad to be true



But to make it simpler, since this is in a Christian framework anyways, it’s a bit redundant to feature “Christian” here, no? So let’s just…



Universalism: Too good to be true. Vs. Infernalism Too bad to be true



Ehhhh, but, what the heck. We’re already removing some repeat words here, might as well remove some other ones too. What we got here… uhhh….. “Too”, “to”, “be” and “true” alright I can work with that. Voila.



Universalism: good. Vs. Infernalism bad



*shocked face emoji* owo

Look everyone, we did it!!!!111 universalism good!!!!111 Infernalism bad!!!!11 *phew* that’s a relief. After all these months making these Daily Quotes, I didn’t think it’d be that easy. But, luckily, happily, fortunately, things just happen to work out huh, would you look at that uwu

…

Ok ok ok but seriously. If you think about the complaint against Universalism where it’s “Too good to be true”, I think of another word that starts with “comp”, yes “compliment”. Cause there’s at least a level of “good” in it.



And can God ever be “too good”. It’s like… God’s goodness is so good that it goes beyond the concept of goodness that we can understand. But of course, this is all under the assumption that you see everyone getting saved as “good” and everyone not getting saved as “bad”. So, it kinda circles back lol, and this post’s more of a reinforcement one if anything. But it was just a lil silly goofy jolly thought I had I wanted to share.



```Psalms 107:1 NRSVue O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever. ```

Do you really think you will be in God's eternal Kingdom when you continuously call God of the Bible a liar?

 

[Harold]

My dad’s been attending this local church “The Meeting Place” here in Winnipeg for years. I don’t agree with them on everything to be honest, but this one was pretty good, and I’ve been going along with my dad since he goes there anyways. So, there was a church livestream on Nov 19 2023, Sunday, which my infernalist mother and I were watching together at home. I was going to comment on it earlier, but I got distracted with recovering from the whole piano recital incident with my mom’s harassment.

Guess this serves as a “sequel” to the Aug 27 2023, 9:49 AM, Daily Quote I made, where “The Meeting Place” had an infernalist sounding sermon. Surprisingly, this one sounded very Universal Reconciliation focused. I had brought up Christian Universalism to Bob personally in-person those months ago, so who knows, maybe he’s thought about it more since then. What clued me in was Timestamp 8:06 which showed text on the screen saying “The Holy Spirit empowers us to partner in God's work of reconciling all things”.



But then it got very Christian Universalism sounding at the Timestamp 36:36 where Bob says “So there was a number of questions that had to do with this notion of reconciliation and the work of the Holy Spirit. I'll use this one as a representative of some of the questions along the line. In the end, will everyone really be reconciled to God. What happens to those who reject Christ's invitation, will they be reconciled.”



And Paul Walker replies “Hmm... I don't know what's going to happen in the end. I have a really big insight for you. Jesus is the judge, not Paul Walker. Sorry. There's never going to be a moment where Jesus is like "You know I need a coffee break Paul please step in". Judgement is God's alone. So, I don't know. And I know certainly in this life there's the possibility that we can harden our hearts and reject and I want to hold an open space to say I don't know what's possible for Jesus to do in that moment. I've heard amazing stories in this faith community of people at the last moment with their loved ones, breathing their last breath, having a sense that they responded, I think what I know to be true, is, again coming back to God looks like Jesus, is that Jesus is relentless in pursuing us and He will not give up. From God's perspective He would like to reconcile all of us 1st Timothy 6 says that it is God's desire that all would be saved. That's God's position, do you want to say yes to that.”. And Bob replies “Excellent”. Timestamp 38:15.



For Paul’s response, I do agree that Judgement is God’s alone and we don’t have any right to judge others, well, we shouldn’t even be judging others in the first place.



```Matthew 7:1-2 Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For the judgment you give will be the judgment you get, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. ```



But based on Pauls’ response it reminds me of the Hopeful Universalist stance. It’s interesting the use of the term “people at the last moment with their loved ones, breathing their last breath”. It’s beautiful to have a person believe in Christ at that moment, but I personally don’t see death as the cut off point. It feels like that part was written for people who hold a “pre-mortem-salvation-moment-only” viewpoint, but I extend the possibility of salvation to that of post-mortem.



Still, even though I’m a Universalist, I don’t judge people for taking a Hopeful Universalist stance, nor an Annihlationist nor Infernalist one. If I’ll be honest, I personally want everyone to believe in Christ to be saved. So, I think that part of my desire at least matches up with God’s desire to have everyone be saved.



What this reminds me of is what Bob said to me when I spoke to him on Christian Universalism, I’ll even quote my Aug 27 2023, 9:49 AM, Daily Quote from back then here “Surprisingly, he replies that he is not sure. He tells me he struggles with reconciliation because of his belief in free will.”



Because honestly, as a Hard Determinist myself who believes in predetermination and no free will, I feel like God desires all to be saved -> God will save everyone, is pretty slam dunk logic. No free will or alternate timelines to get in the way, just straight to the point. Of course, that’s my own personal opinion here, as a Divine Sovereignty Universalist, but there are Free Will Universalists too.

 

[Harold]

There are likely many people who have avoided Christianity due to their own past negative experiences with Christian Infernalism.



It reminds me of Social Judgment Theory, which explains that we assimilate new information in light of the old information.



Let’s say you lift two heavy boxes that are colored blue. You’re exhausted, and when you see this third blue box, your brain subconsciously already assumes that it’s going to be heavy, so you don’t bother lifting it since you’re tired, even though this box is actually physically light.



This is an allegory serve as illustrations, ἀλληγορούμενα (allēgoroumena) Strong's 238: To speak allegorically. From allos and agoreo (compare agora); to allegorize. The blue boxes are Christianity, the first being Infernalism, then Annilhationism, then Universalism. Since allegories appear in the Bible (it’s not all completely literal), I figured I’d try making my own.



```Galatians 4:24 NRSVue Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. ```

Galatians 4:24 - Hagar and Sarah



For many, they are already understandable tired from lifting the a heavy box like Infernalism or Annilhationism that they do not wish to lift further. For others, they may be lucky that the first box they lift is the light Universalism box.



You did not choose to believe in what you believe; it is the psychological theory of Social Judgment that subconsciously controls you to act in the way that you act. But eventually all will believe in God, who is Jesus Christ, the creator of all our psyches, to obtain permanent salvation.



For some Infernalists, they continue to hold onto the heavy box out of worry that if they try lifting another box, it will be even heavier. They may think that all the blue boxes of Christianity are heavy. Other’s may go to life other colored boxes from other religions instead. Or some may not want to lift any boxes of any sort and just straight out leave theism. I do not blame any of these people for their actions or inactions, it is their brain, through the use of heuristics and mental shortcuts, that has already decided this for them.

 

[Harold]

Nov 24 2023 before 1:32 PM my mother came downstairs telling me that she saw my sister around 7:00 AM walking back and forth in the living room.



For years I would walk back and forth in the basement of this house. Sometimes from excitement after writing a cool Daily Quote. Other times out of worry on what to do. I’d often loose track of time when I do this and look be surprised on how much time has passed.



I learned this recently that the term is stimming, so I explained this to my mother. She told me that I have autism, so that makes sense.



Perhaps my sister is still recovering from the piano recital incident, where despite her winning a gold medal my mother verbally abused her, screaming at her outside in broad daylight in public, then in the car while my dad was driving then inside of our own house. Maybe I’m still recovering from that too. Because last night I was crying and I couldn’t understand exactly why.



I think it’s the realization that it’s like… no matter what success we could achieve, that my mother won’t be satisfied. She’s an infernalist, and I see this as an issue among certain infernalists, specifically those who believe in “Conditional Love”. The type that believe God agape loved only Jacob, and not Esau, even though God agape loves the whole world John 3:16. Therefore, I believe that all will believe in God, who is Christ, and thus gain permanent life.



```Psalm 119:169 NRSVue Let my cry come before you, O Lord; give me understanding according to your word. ```

 

[Harold]

This morning Nov 25 2023 before 11:55 AM I was at my first church choir practice with my sister at the Meeting Place, and when I saw the lyrics of the song, they reminded me of Christian Universalism.



In the page of the binder they provided it reads “Lo, How A Rose E’er Bloom. Words: verses 1-2, 15th Century Germany. Translated by Theodore Baker, 1894. Verses 3,4 Friedrich Layritz (1808-1859). Translated by Harriet Reynolds Krauth, 1875. Verse 5, 15th Century German. Translated by John C. Mattes, 1914. Music: ‘Es Ist Ein Ros Entsprungen (Rhythmic)’ German from Köln, 1599. Setting: Michael Prateorius, 1609. copyright: public domain. This score is a part of the Open Hymnal Project, 2010 Revisions.



Where a line reads “As an – gel her - - alds said. death He saves us, And light – ens ev - - ‘ry load.”

Describing how Jesus Christ died to lighten the load of sin for everyone. Thus, I personally see everyone as having faith alone in Jesus Christ eventually to be permanently saved.



And at the bottom left corner of this page it reads “Mt 1:20-21”

```Matthew 1:20-21 NRSVue But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” ```



And who are the Jesus’ people? All people. For I also personally see Jesus as God, since God has created all people.

 

[The Learner]

This morning Nov 25 2023 before 11:55 AM I was at my first church choir practice with my sister at the Meeting Place, and when I saw the lyrics of the song, they reminded me of Christian Universalism.



In the page of the binder they provided it reads “Lo, How A Rose E’er Bloom. Words: verses 1-2, 15th Century Germany. Translated by Theodore Baker, 1894. Verses 3,4 Friedrich Layritz (1808-1859). Translated by Harriet Reynolds Krauth, 1875. Verse 5, 15th Century German. Translated by John C. Mattes, 1914. Music: ‘Es Ist Ein Ros Entsprungen (Rhythmic)’ German from Köln, 1599. Setting: Michael Prateorius, 1609. copyright: public domain. This score is a part of the Open Hymnal Project, 2010 Revisions.



Where a line reads “As an – gel her - - alds said. death He saves us, And light – ens ev - - ‘ry load.”

Describing how Jesus Christ died to lighten the load of sin for everyone. Thus, I personally see everyone as having faith alone in Jesus Christ eventually to be permanently saved.



And at the bottom left corner of this page it reads “Mt 1:20-21”

```Matthew 1:20-21 NRSVue But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” ```



And who are the Jesus’ people? All people. For I also personally see Jesus as God, since God has created all people.

Colossians 1:15-20
Easy-to-Read Version
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.[a]
16 Through his power all things were made:
things in heaven and on earth, seen and not seen—
all spiritual rulers, lords, powers, and authorities.
Everything was made through him and for him.

17 The Son was there before anything was made.
And all things continue because of him.
18 He is the head of the body, which is the church.
He is the beginning of everything else.
And he is the first among all who will be raised from death.
So in everything he is most important.

19 God was pleased for all of himself to live in the Son.
20 And through him, God was happy to bring all things back to himself again—
things on earth and things in heaven.
God made peace by using the blood sacrifice of his Son on the cross.

Read full chapter
Footnotes
Colossians 1:15 He … made Literally, “He is the firstborn of all creation.” See “firstborn” in the Word List.
Colossians 1:18 first … death Literally, “firstborn from the dead.”

 

[Harold]

Yesterday my sister joined the Christian Universalists Discord server. She is a Christian Universalist. Christian Universalism, being the concept that all shall believe in Christ and all shall thus be saved.



So, before 1:28 PM today Nov 26 2023 my mother came downstairs and told me that she had just had a dream. She describes her dream to me, saying how there was the parent of one of my sister’s friends standing outside of our house holding a gun and my mother shouts “[sister’s name] you’re dead!”.



My mother says she is being honest here and that it’s a metaphor. She tells me she does not literally expect my sister’s friend’s parent to go in front of our house with a gun. I reply, saying something how it might be an allegory? But it confuses me.

```Galatians 4:24 NRSVue Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. ```

 

[Harold]

Today Nov 27 2023, before 3:59 PM my mother told me that she wants to make a bet with me in regards to whether an aspect of my sister’s life will be successful or unsuccessful.



My infernalist mother went to the position of saying that it will be not successful with “100%” certainty and insisted that I participate in her bet, but I refused. Nevertheless, she said that I apparently now owe her 50 dollars? What??? Is my infernalist mother so confident in her belief that she’s already trying to collect her winnings before the game has even been decided?



So, I replied saying that I do not agree to participate in the bet. What’s my position here? I don’t know. How can we even make accurate bets in regards to other people’s lives, when their very futures are at stake here? But my mother had already in her mind put me on the opposing side forcefully. I’m not surprised. We disagree on many things, one such is Infernalism vs Universalism. In regards to “bets”, I am very cautious. I prefer only joining a side that I am very confident in, which is why I consider myself a Christian Universalist.

```Jeremiah 29:11 NRSVue For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope. ```



For a lot of Hopeful Universalists, I imagine they must be under three-way pressure from the Infernalists, those who believe God tortures people forever, the Annihlationists, those who believe God permanently destroys people forever and the Universalists, the personal camp I’m in, who believes that God will save everyone.



I wonder which position is the “riskiest”? I think there’s arguments on both sides. For the Christian Universalists, who could say their position is “risky” because it requires literally every person in existence to believe in Christ to be saved. If even a single person is tortured forever, Christian Infernalism is true. If even a single person is permanently destroyed forever, Christian Annilhationism is true.



The interesting thing is that Christian Annilhationism could already be true. Yeah, like, what if there was a single person who was already permanently destroyed forever? Then that would make Christian Universalism impossible. But for Christian Annilhationism, would God be wasteful? If God was going to permanently destroy one of His creations, then why even create them in the first place? Would not God have known already in advance that He would do this? But for Christian Infernalism, God would somehow have to maintain the existence of sin forever (the sinners being tormented) while still remaining good.



Regardless of the “risk level” I still stay in the Christian Universalism camp. If it means having a happy ending for all of humanity, then I think it’s worth whatever perceived risk there is. But for you Hopeful Universalists, don’t get forced into having another person put you into a bet that you didn’t sign up for. You’re allowed to just… not know, you know?



Whatever’s true is what always would have been true anyways, regardless of one’s belief in Infernalism / Annilhationism / Universalism.