WHAT ALMOST ALL PREMILLENNIALISTS DO NOT NOTICE OR REFUSE TO SEE

[ewq1938]

Yours are wrong too. The events go like this:

The Cross. Satan bound.

satan was not locked and imprisoned in the pit anywhere near the timeframe of the cross according to scripture. That happens after Christ has returned, defeats the two beasts and has satan imprisoned for a thousand years.

 

[Jay Ross]

satan was not locked and imprisoned in the pit anywhere near the timeframe of the cross according to scripture. That happens after Christ has returned, defeats the two beasts and has satan imprisoned for a thousand years.

Please, sit down and study the scriptures. Rev 19 and 20 both cover the same time period is just one rea where your comments above are so wrong.

Satan is judged in heaven at the same time as the kings of the earth are judged. We are told this in Isaiah 24:21-22. We are also told in Daniel 7:11-14 that the Son of Man, Christ, does not receive any dominion over the earth until the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are judged. Isaiah 24:21-22 does not happen until the end of the sixth age since the time of Adam being created or at the end of the fourth age of the existence of the nation of Israel from the time of Isaac's birth.

The book of Revelation is not linear in what it presents.

Ezekiel 47:1-12 gives us a good indication of when the GWTR judgement will take place. Exodus 20:4-6 gives us a good indication of when God will begin gathering the Nations of Judah and Israel to Himself where they are scattered all around the earth.

But you are welcome to your hold whatever opinion you want, but when rejecting someone else's opinion, do not hold up your opinion as being right when it clearly is not.

Goodbye

 

[rwb]

Then God permitted Satan to deceive mankind. Adam and Eve believed the lie which said "You will not surely die", and sinned.

It was the first death. And it spread to all men, because all sinned.

Jesus the Son of God and Son of man and the last Adam IS the resurrection and the life. Eternal life is in Him, whom scripture tells us alone possesses immortality and alone has eternal life in Himself.

There will be a second death. It takes place at the close of the thousand years after Satan has been released to deceive mankind.

Those who take part in the Gog-Magog rebellion are not said to meet their end in the same way the beast and false prophet and the rest who were slain by the Sword that proceeded out of the mouth of Christ were:

Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured those who were deceived by Satan and gathered against the camp of the saints.

Neither are they said to meet their end at the same time as the rest of the dead who the sea delivered up - but those who took part in the Gog-Magog rebellion most certainly will have had their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Immortality is in Christ. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone is immortal and has eternal life in Himself.

"You will not surely die" is the first lie.

In the Revelation only those who had not worshiped the beast are promised that the second death will have no authority over them.
​

Christ will make all things new when He comes, just as He said. The first thousand years in the new heavens and new earth will be like the Garden of Eden was. The close of the thousand years will be like the end of the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, too. Mankind's final test.

You seem to be saying when Christ comes again for one thousand years before Satan is released to deceive mankind, there will be harmony, love, joy, and peace etc. shall be between all of mankind then? Because you believe Christ will make all things new only for the first one thousand years in the new earth where it will be as it was in the beginning before A&E disobeyed God?

How do you reconcile that with what is written in Rev 21 regarding the new earth? John says the new earth shall be AFTER the first earth passes away. That, through the fire that shall come down out of heaven and shall devour all who are left alive on the first earth. When the new earth with the holy city, new Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven, "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband" there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain. Why? Because the former things are passed away! That means the things that had been, death, sorrow, crying, and pain shall never be again because Christ shall make all things new!

Revelation 21:1-8 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The testing or trial for mankind is NOW, during this age of grace as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed unto all the nations of the earth. Mankind is tried/tested through the Gospel that shall be life for all who repent and believe, or death to all who remain in unbelief. The new earth shall not go back to as things were at the beginning when God created all things. Mankind then shall already be immortal and incorruptible and Satan along with all his offspring will be gone forever!

 

[Phil .]

No one’s ever actually experienced a past or future, but thought (and perhaps deflection & projection therein) seem to make it so nonetheless.

 

[rwb]

What you are basically arguing, is it this? That the reason Premil also has the the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time, is because Premil has the thousand years, as do Amils, commencing before the time of the NHNE rather than during the time of the NHNE instead?

Which is absolutely unbiblical! Nowhere can it be shown that there will be one thousand literal years of peace on the NHNE before evil, corruption and death once again come into the NHNE. Why make all things new if all things shall once again be as things in this earth now are?

 

[Phil .]

All is already new in that there isn’t a past or future.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

TIMES JESUS HIMSELF IS QUOTED SPEAKING TO HIS ASSEMBLIES AND HIS SAINTS IN HIS REVELATION​

INTRODUCING HIMSELF:

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches." (Revelation 1:8, 11, 17-20).

THE FIRST SEVEN MESSAGES ALL END WITH:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes ..

--- FOLLOWING THIS THERE IS A SERIES OF VISIONS INCLUDING VISIONS REGARDING THE TIME OF THE END, WHERE JESUS DOES NO TALKING ---

THEN:​

=======================================================​

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air.

And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, ---​

It is done! ​

Revelation 16:15-17

=======================================================​

THEN:

And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,​

It is done. ​

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8

THEN:

Revelation 22
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the water of life freely. Rev.22:7, 12-17.​

==========================================​

Jesus is telling us that he will make all things new when He comes, after He has destroyed the beast and false prophet.

Both Premillennialists and Amillennialists have the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time:

There is no thousand years in-between Christ's coming as a thief when He destroys the beast and false prophet and His making all things new in a new heavens and new earth.

Neither does the commencement of the thousand years precede His coming.

It will be back to what took place in the Garden of Eden:

Adam and Eve were eating freely of the tree of life and living forever. They were immortal.

Then God permitted Satan to deceive mankind. Adam and Eve believed the lie which said "You will not surely die", and sinned.

It was the first death. And it spread to all men, because all sinned.

Jesus the Son of God and Son of man and the last Adam IS the resurrection and the life. Eternal life is in Him, whom scripture tells us alone possesses immortality and alone has eternal life in Himself.

There will be a second death. It takes place at the close of the thousand years after Satan has been released to deceive mankind.

Those who take part in the Gog-Magog rebellion are not said to meet their end in the same way the beast and false prophet and the rest who were slain by the Sword that proceeded out of the mouth of Christ were:

Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured those who were deceived by Satan and gathered against the camp of the saints.

Neither are they said to meet their end at the same time as the rest of the dead who the sea delivered up - but those who took part in the Gog-Magog rebellion most certainly will have had their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Immortality is in Christ. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone is immortal and has eternal life in Himself.

"You will not surely die" is the first lie.

In the Revelation only those who had not worshiped the beast are promised that the second death will have no authority over them.
​

Christ will make all things new when He comes, just as He said. The first thousand years in the new heavens and new earth will be like the Garden of Eden was. The close of the thousand years will be like the end of the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, too. Mankind's final test.

The Bottomless Pit/Hades is part of the 1st Earth, deep beneath the crust, likey the core.
The 1st Heaven is our atmosphere.
The 2nd Heaven is outer space/ the universe and so together, they are "the first heavens".
The Millennial Kingdom will exist in the 1st Earth. Days and years are numbered by the earth spinning and revolutions around the sun.
Nations from all over the 1st Earth _ after the Great Tribulation _ annually _ will come to Jerusalem to worship Jesus (Micah 4:2), who lives there in a Temple described in Ezekiel 40-48 (Yet this will not be a Temple like the old Temple with ritual sacrifices, for Jesus was the once and for all sacrifice. It will be a memorial Temple for praise, worship and learning.
Isaiah describes peace and harmony on earth and even among the animals.
So Satan is locked up in the Bottomless Pit for 1000 years ( in the 1st Earth).
Then He is released forward short time, there is a war/ rebellion and when itnis over, the Great White Throne Judgment. Death, Hades ( and everyone in it), Satan and his demons are destroyed along with the 1st Earth and 1st Heavens _ in a fervent heat that melts and destroys the elements (2 Peter 3:10).

Now the New Heaven and New Earth come ( which is called the New Jerusalem).
In this eternal realm, there are no 24-hour days, no nights, no years, because there is no sun or moon. Time is measured differently. The only means of measuring time would be the appearance of different fruit which blossoms every month. There are no nations, only one New Jerusalem encompasses all the billions of believers.

 

[Phil .]

What or where is time without thoughts about time?

 

[TribulationSigns]

satan was not locked and imprisoned in the pit anywhere near the timeframe of the cross according to scripture.

The Scripture proved you wrong. Read carefully:

Mat 12:28-29
(28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Do you know who this strong man is? Satan!
Do you know what is his goods? People!
DO you know what is his house? World!
Therefore, salvation is not possible until Christ has to bound Satan FIRST so he could spoil Elect from among the nations to be saved. The reason why you can't receive this truth is because you are blind by premillennialism indoctrination. And yes Salvation has already came since the Cross after Satan was bound (restrained from keeping people being deceived):

Compare Reveation 20 to Revelation 12...

Rev 12:7-10
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation does not come after the Second Coming. It already came with the establishment of the kingdom of God through the New Testament Congregation, the church! If you fail to see the truth, then I will pray for you.

That happens after Christ has returned, defeats the two beasts and has satan imprisoned for a thousand years.

Impossible. As explained above, salvation will not start "AFTER" Christ return. Else we are not saved now while you believe Satan is still deceiving people today. Crazy thinking on your part.

 

[ewq1938]

The Scripture proved you wrong. Read carefully:

Mat 12:28-29
(28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Do you know who this strong man is? Satan!

Ok, so you think satan is stronger than god so he has to be bound first?

You are wrong. The strongman in context is the demons that possessed the man who was ordinarily strong because of the possession. The person who steals from this strongman is the one who casts demons from someone.


Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Christ in no way said satan was bound and cast into a prison in this parable. Christ is speaking about how to steal from a strong man, and that is by binding him. In this situation the evil spirit/spirits are the strong man being bound. Instead of having material goods taken from them, it is their freedom and temporary home which Christ takes away. They are the strong man who has taken possession of a dwelling in which they don't belong. They were stronger than the one they dwelled in and thus someone spiritually stronger must cast these intruders out.

And contrary to the notion that satan was bound in a prison in this parable, Christ tells us instead that satan will be coming after the cross as the ruler of the world, not a bound prisoner in it.

Joh_14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

He is freely roaming around:

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[TribulationSigns]

Ok, so you think satan is stronger than god so he has to be bound first?

Huh? Can't you read? Where did I say that Satan is stronger than God? You have no clues about what you are blabbing about. It is clear that your understanding of Revelation 20 is clouded by what you have been taught. This witness of Matthew 12 to Rvelation 20 helps show the truth of this often-misunderstood chapter of the Bible. There Christ EXPLAINS the binding of Satan, and who did it and why:

Mat 12:29
(29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Again the pertinent questions here that you did not appear to answer honestly are:
#1. who the Strong man is
#2. who is He who seeks to spoil his house
#3. What is this House, and
#4. what are the possessions of this strong man that he wanted to spoil (seize or take by conquest)

Understanding this you will comprehend why God says that FIRST he had to bind him. If you come to understand that parable, you'll answer your own question. Or rather, God will answer it for you, Lord willing.

Ephesians 1:20-22

• "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
• Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
• And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,"

God is sovereign and free to do whatever He chooses. All is in His divine providence and He has all dominion. If we receive the word of God "as truth" then there is no question of that. He bound Satan so that He could set the nations free from the bondage of sin that held them captive and in deception. It is Scripture fulfilled, not Scripture to be fulfilled like you believe.

1.) Who is running the world?

God is running the world. He is supreme ruler, the King in reigning, the sovereign over all things. He decides who lives and who dies, who is born with a disadvantage, and who is born whole, who is drawn to Christ to be saved, and who is not. He is King of Kings and His kingdom is not of this world, so that not a hair of anyone's head perishes without His say so. Obviously, He is stronger than Satan.

2.) Who should be running the world?

If God is creator and King, and ruling the world, then God "should be" ruling the world. But He has allowed Satan to be ruler of the unsaved of this world, because of the sin of the fall.

3.) If Satan is bound then why aren't the righteous ruling in Christ's Kingdom now?
They are! Who said that they were not? When we were moved into or translated into the Kingdom of our Christ, we were made righteous, and we were given rule as kings and priests unto our God. We are given this reign (rule) through Jesus Christ our Lord. To deny this is to deny the scriptures that plainly say so! As it is written:

Romans 5:19

• "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Revelation 1:5-6

• "..Unto him that loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Ephesians 2:5-6

• "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
• And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

What is our authority of what has taken place? Is it man or God? The point you are missing is that Christ has already bound Satan in order to deliver us from his power of darkness, and to establish His Kingdom, and has given us prosperity, and made us righteous so that we sit in heavenly places and rule with Him. While you are looking for a carnal, or fleshly and earthly reign, Christ's church is already reigning in Christ's Kingdom, and has already been delivered from Satan. Indeed, the reason he was bound was for their sakes.

Colossians 1:13

• "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

Hello? Can; you read it and receive it? Or are you going to tell God, "Wrong, it has not happened yet , only after the Second Coming?"
No, this wasn't a "pretend" Kingdom of Christ, it's His actual Kingdom. Satan is bound and has no more power over us (Elect, not the world), as we are Kings and priests who have been translated into Christ's Kingdom. These things are all a given if we receive scripture as true and "authoritative." Do you??

4.) Wait a minute. Look at the church for the last 2000 years? Is Jesus in charge?

Of course, yes! Christ Jesus is in charge of the church. This is made evident by God's exposition that He is the "head" or the authority of the church, and the reason that Christians are obedient to His word is "because" His people understand that "He is in charge." Just because some "professed" Christians disobey God doesn't mean that God is not in charge of the church anymore than Judas betraying Him meant that.

It is precisely because Jesus is in Charge that the church shall always prevail.

Matthew 16:18

• "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Now that's what you call "authority!" The church has gone forth over the last two thousand years under the authority of the rider on the white Horse of Revelation 6 (not your fantasy antichrist!). He has been knocking down strongholds and defeating Satan's defenses, breaking down the gates of hell by building God's church while spoiling people from his kingdom of darkness into kingdom of light! Hello?! We stand with Him a "spiritual" army, and our weapons of warfare is the Word of God.

Ephesians 6:12-17

• "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
• Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
• Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
• And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
• Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
• And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

Tell me, is Jesus in charge of this army? As the master builder (cornerstone) of the church, and the power itself, You Bet He Is!


(Continue)

 

[TribulationSigns]

(Continued from previous post)

5.) But, but the church has been killing and doing all manner of evil. And if Satan, the king of His kingdom is bound then why isn't the Kingdom of God the prevailing influence in how mankind runs their lives?

The Kingdom of God was NEVER established to make all the whole world righteous, that is the error of Premillennialism and also to a degree of Postmillennialism and Preterism. The Kingdom of God is in fact the prevailing influence in how the church runs their lives. It never was, and never will be the prevailing influence of how the "world" runs their lives. They are two separate and "distinct" Kingdoms, which are adversarial to one another. You need to understand that Satan was not bound for the world's sake, Satan was bound for the elect of the Kingdom of Heaven's sake. This is what you missed the point! For the world, Satan still goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. For the true believers, he has no more power over us. His power over us has been broken. Christ has wounded the head of this Beast for us at the Cross. Not "for" the world. I did not say this. Christ did:

John 17:9

• "I pray for them: I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

As for the "visible" church over the years killing and doing all manner of evil, this has always been the case, and always will be as long as we are on this sin cursed earth. Have you already forgotten that there is the corporate or external Covenant church, and then there is the true Covenanted church. Just as God said about Old Israel, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel," meaning, there was a corporate Israel, and a true Israel of God. And 'according to this verse' only ONE was the "true" Israel in God's definition. Likewise, some people of the external church could have wantonly killed, but that didn't mean they were the true church anymore than all Israel was Israel. Nor did it mean that Satan was not bound. It means that Satan was not bound "FOR THEM," because it is unlikely they were God's elect.

Luke 6:44

• "For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes."

Thorns are they who choke and hamper the fruit, not that cultivate it. Selah!

6.) Satan is in control of all aspects of human life including all religion.

Be careful! This bridges on blasphemy. Satan does NOT control the "true" Christian religion, nor can he ever. Remember the saints by the death and resurrection of Christ have been given rule over that old serpent Satan, where they can take him up without harm (Luke 10:19; Mark 16:18). He has been bound, destroyed and made useless against us (Elect) and has no more power to subjugate us. He was bound from deceiving and preventing the church from being built through the nations, as we have been delivered from is "power" of darkness. Read the word of God again CAREFULLY on breaking the horn or power of Satan.

Hebrews 2:14

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

That is the strong one in the parable Jesus taught, and that explains how he must be bound first before his house could be plundered where the people are no longer all their lives subject to spiritual bondage. Before Christ prevailed over Satan, that was the case. Are you now going to argue with God and ask him the question, "How Can God say Satan is destroyed when he's STILL prince of this world, huh?!" I wouldn't. Vanity of vanities, all is vanity! That Greek word translated "destroy" literally means to bring down to idleness. To make inactive. To restrain him. Shall we call God wrong in accomplishing this, or has Satan truly "by the death" and resurrection of Christ been made destroyed or as useless against Christians as God's Word says? That verse above is what the parable spoke of. Christ spoiled (seized by conquest) the property of the evil prince of this world (the Devil) by his death. He delivered us who all our lifetime were subject to bondage in his house of pain. If you don't believe these things then you might as well just rip all these pages from the scriptures. Do you receive this truth?

7.) If the 1.7 billion Christians had destroyed the works of the devil then the devil would have no place in the world!

Look, God destroyed the works of the Devil. And there is no "if" about it. There is only "I will receive what God's word actually says," or else "I will reject what God's word actually says." Up to you! It is either God's word is my authority for what is true, or God's word is not my authority for what is true. Again, up to you! There is no "if" God said it. God unambiguously said it, and the church has been given to witness with Power and are tearing down strongholds and destroying works of the devil through the testimony of Christ. As the Apostles said when they realized the serpents and scorpions were subject to them by Christ's word. There is no "if" God destroyed Satan that they rule, there is only, He Did! Again:

Hebrews 2:14

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Where is the, "IF?" Christ actually destroyed the works of the devil "FOR" Christians, but obviously not for the world, just as He said. It's the reason He said He didn't pray for the world, but only for those given Him out of the world.

Will finish this post later.

 

[Zao is life]

You seem to be saying when Christ comes again for one thousand years before Satan is released to deceive mankind, there will be harmony, love, joy, and peace etc. shall be between all of mankind then? Because you believe Christ will make all things new only for the first one thousand years in the new earth where it will be as it was in the beginning before A&E disobeyed God?

How do you reconcile that with what is written in Rev 21 regarding the new earth? John says the new earth shall be AFTER the first earth passes away.

Eden was not removed. Adam and Eve were removed from Eden and the tree of life. It was the first death. The second death is a final removal.

You ignore the part I highlight below in the scripture you quote, not even wondering why it's there:

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The testing or trial for mankind is NOW, during this age of grace as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed unto all the nations of the earth.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ speaks of one final test at the close of the thousand years which according to Revelation 20:1-6 follows His return, and you say we should ignore what it says, ignore Jesus, and believe you and believe how you have chosen to interpret what is written.​

Mankind is tried/tested through the Gospel that shall be life for all who repent and believe, or death to all who remain in unbelief.​

In order for anyone to possess immortality in himself he also needs to have eternal life in himself. It is written that the only Man who possesses immortality | eternal life in Himself, is Christ Jesus (1 Tim.6:16; John 5:26).

Even while he was still immortal Adam discovered the hard way that His immortality was not in himself and that he would indeed die, just as God had said.

"Dying you will die" = "You do not have immortality | eternal life in yourself. Your life is in the Word in whom is life".

"You will not surely die" = "Your immortality | eternal life is in yourself".

Only in the Word is life (John 1:4). The eternal life of created beings is in the Son of God (1 John 5:11), by His Spirit, through faith in His Word.

"If anyone does not remain dwelling in me, he is thrown out like a branch, and dries up; and such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, and are burned up." (John 15:6).​

Mankind then shall already be immortal and incorruptible​

I believe God. You believe the word you have chosen to believe.

My life is in Christ. My immortality | eternal life will always be in Christ. You have chosen to believe the word you will believe, and to interpret the Word of God as you will.

In the process you negate the Word in whom alone you have immortality | eternal life.

"If anyone does not remain dwelling in me, he is thrown out like a branch, and dries up; and such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, and are burned up." (John 15:6).

What did God do with Eden? Did He destroy it after expelling Adam and Eve? What happened to the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve were expelled? Is Christ talking about a completely new creation when He promises He will make all things new? Do you not believe Paul when he says we are already a new creation in Christ?

You betray complete incomprehension of what Jesus means by "I make all things new" and what "a new heavens and new earth" means, as well as complete unbelief of the words "Dying you will die",

and of the statements "Christ Jesus alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen."

and

"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (1 Tim.6:16; John 5:26).

In the process of expressing your own doctrine of what it means for all created humans to be immortal and have eternal life you also betray your own belief in the word "You will not surely die" - the first lie.

It's also influenced by your belief that you have expressed many times that the human spirit is a spirit-body when the only body God created Adam with is the body that, because of Adam's sin, dies and (thanks to Christ) will rise again.

Spirit is spirit: God (Spirit) breathed (Spirit) the breath of (eternal) life into Adam, and Adam became a living soul - a soul with (eternal) life which was derived from the Word and Spirit of life dwelling in him, and he in Him. -- Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 2:7; John 15:6.

The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit. -- John 3:8.

That which is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. -- John 3:6.

The word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, and the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction which is consistent throughout the New Testament between the body and the soul.

A human being is one whole person comprised of a (created) body [sōma], a soul [psychḗ], and a spirit [pneûma]. That is, (one) body, (one) soul, (one) spirit, and the three are one. It's not two bodies (a body plus a "spirit body"), but one (created) body: Spirit is spirit, and is born of God.

Many of the sons of Adam who will have been resurrected from the dead after the first death (which resulted from the sin which resulted from belief in the first lie) will be deceived and enticed to make themselves like the most high just like Adam did because he believed the lie "You will not surely die" followed by the lie "You will be like the Most High".

It will be the second death - which can only come about in those who had been resurrected from the first death.

The first time these things occurred Adam and Eve were expelled from paradise, but paradise itself was not destroyed. The first time it occurred, there was mercy - the Word of God would come into the world, take on human flesh, take the sins of all mankind upon Himself, die for our sins, and rise again from the death. He IS the resurrection and the (eternal) life (John 11:25).

There will be no second sacrifice for sins and no second resurrection from the second death. The second death is the second and final expulsion - this time from God's created heavens and earth, which will already have been made new:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make [poiéō] all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." (Rev.21:5)

poiéō (Strongs G04160) does not mean "create" - it means to perform something (like a task or something else). It's not a newly created heavens and earth but a renewed/regenerated heavens and earth. It's not new bodies but regenerated resurrected bodies that we will be raised with.

It's not the elements of heavens and the earth that will be burned up when Christ returns but the works (ergon) of men and the rudiments of the world.

You express belief by the things you say that your immortality will be in yourself. As though you have eternal life or will have eternal life in yourself. You believe the spirit has a body aside from the body you now exist in that will one day be resurrected from the dead. You do not believe that when you die, if you are in Christ your spirit will go to be with Christ, yet you will be limbless, because your limbs will be in the grave until the resurrection of your body from the dead.

Your beliefs cause you to interpret the scriptures the way you do. The statements you make are false statements based on belief in falsehoods, beginning with: "After the resurrection we will never die - not even if we do not abide in Christ because our immortality (which is based on our eternal life), will be in ourselves. So Satan's first lie will have come true."​

 

[rwb]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ speaks of one final test at the close of the thousand years which according to Revelation 20:1-6 follows His return, and you say we should ignore what it says, ignore Jesus, and believe you and believe how you have chosen to interpret what is written.

No it doesn't! There won't be a final trial for mankind at the close of this age, symbolized a thousand years. There will be life for all who in life believe in/on Christ for salvation, or there will be condemnation, wrath and the second death for all who remain in unbelief. As I've said it is in this life that the everlasting fate of mankind is determined.

In order for anyone to possess immortality in himself he also needs to have eternal life in himself. It is written that the only Man who possesses immortality | eternal life in Himself, is Christ Jesus (1 Tim.6:16; John 5:26).

Every human living during this age of time, symbolized a thousand years is mortal, and none, except Christ Jesus are immortal as He is until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. The faithful in life have eternal spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ in them. It is the eternal, never ending spirit of faithful man that never dies. Death of our natural, mortal body does not take away the eternal spirit life we have when we believe. Because the spirit of man of faith returns to God still a living soul, but without mortal, corruptible flesh & bone. Then the spiritual body of believers in heaven with the Lord after physical death shall return with Christ to give immortal & incorruptible physical life to our resurrected body.

Your problem appears to be a lack of understanding the difference between eternal life of man's spirit, and immortality of man's flesh & bone. When we possess eternal spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ within, our spirit lives on after our mortal/corruptible body of flesh is dead. We have this promise from Christ that all who live and believe in Him, though they shall physically die, they shall continue to live forever. Having this promise we know that physical death shall not be the end for us. After physical death we look forward to belonging to the spiritual body of believers in heaven until the final trumpet sounds and we are made complete again through immortal & incorruptible physical bodies alive forever through our eternal spirit that returns with the Lord when He shall come again after the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete.

 

[Zao is life]

Huh? Can't you read? Where did I say that Satan is stronger than God? You have no clues about what you are blabbing about. It is clear that your understanding of Revelation 20 is clouded by what you have been taught.

Don't look at yourself in the mirror and talk to yourself like that. It's embarrassing.

Since you claim that Christ and His apostles casting demons out of people multiple times even before Christ died and rose again = Satan being bound so that he cannot deceive the nations for a thousand years and shut in the abyss and a seal placed on him, you are indeed implying that Satan is stronger than God and needed to be bound a thousand years and shut up in the abyss a thousand years and made unable to the deceive the nations for a thousand years each and every time demons were cast out of individuals.

You guys don't even realize how ludicrous your equating of Revelation 20:1-3 with demons being cast out of individuals is because you're too busy trying to get your invented doctrines to fit scripture and scripture to fit your invented doctrines.

Stop ignoring scripture when scripture negates your beliefs.

"And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled."

In Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind.

Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

The reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired.

If we look for statements in the New Testament implying that Satan was bound when Jesus died and rose again, all we will ever find is passages stating the opposite:

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world" and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13). The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" ( John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).​

This witness of Mhtthew 12 to Rvelation 20 helps show the truth of this often-misunderstood chapter of the Bible. There Christ EXPLAINS the binding of Satan, and who did it and why:

Mat 12:29
(29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Absolute nonsense. What @ewq1938 said to you about this is true.

Again the pertinent questions here that you did not appear to answer honestly are:
#1. who the Strong man is
#2. who is He who seeks to spoil his house
#3. What is this House, and
#4. what are the possessions of this strong man that he wanted to spoil (seize or take by conquest)

Understanding this you will comprehend why God says that FIRST he had to bind him. If you come to understand that parable, you'll answer your own question. Or rather, God will answer it for you, Lord willing.

1.) Who is running the world?

God is running the world. He has allowed Satan to be ruler of the unsaved of this world

Your words. Satan is ruling the world. God permits. No one argues with that. It's no Premillennialist argument to say any different.

Satan has not yet been bound. Only those who think that Satan can be ruling the world while he is bound and shut up in the abyss can have it both ways. They are the ones who also say that Christ's analogy of the strong man needing to be bound for demons to be cast out of individuals means that Satan was bound for a thousand years each time demons were cast out of individuals and made unable to deceive the nations for a thousand years each time demons were cast out of individuals. In the process you don't realize that indeed you are implying that Satan is stronger than God or at least as strong as God and needed to be bound each time demons were cast out of people by Christ and His apostles.​

3.) If Satan is bound then why aren't the righteous ruling in Christ's Kingdom now?
They are!

Is Christ's Kingdom that is now in the world the kingdoms of this world?

Consider what Jesus said to Pilate before you answer. Because if you say His Kingdom is of this present Age of this world you are negating Jesus' own words to Pilate.

The kingdoms of this world will indeed become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ, and then the saints will rule with Him in the world, and then His Kingdom and the kingdoms of this world will be one and the same. Scripture says so.

You keep showing that you really don't know what you are babbling about. Then you say whoever disagrees with your fallacies doesn't know what he's babbling about. That's why I counsel you to stop talking like that to the guy in your mirror. It's embarrassing!

Who said that they were not? When we were moved into or translated into the Kingdom of our Christ, we were made righteous, and we were given rule as kings and priests unto our God. We are given this reign (rule) through Jesus Christ our Lord. To deny this is to deny the scriptures that plainly say so! As it is written:

To deny that His Kingdom is in the world but not of this world but the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of Christ after He has returned is to deny the fact that Jesus plainly told Pilate that, and to deny all the other scriptures that plainly say so!

One day, after you have begun to actually allow scripture to form your beliefs instead of interpreting the Word of God by your beliefs and trying clumsily and unsuccessfully to get your beliefs to fit scripture and scripture to fit your beliefs, you will stop looking at the man in the mirror telling him he really does not know what he's babbling about because the man in your mirror really does not know what scripture actually says about the Kingdom of Christ, the kingdoms of this world, the ruler of this world, the binding of the ruler of this world for a thousand years, etc etc etc.

 

[Zao is life]

Your problem appears to be a lack of understanding the difference between eternal life of man's spirit, and immortality of man's flesh & bone.

Your problem is quite evidently that you believe that whether alive in body, soul and spirit (i.e whole) or alive in spirit but dead in the body, you believe that the creature's spirit - which is born of God - has eternal life in the creature's own spirit, i.e in the creature, the created being - whose eternal life scripture states very clearly is in Christ, whom scripture states very clearly alone has eternal life in Himself (because only God our Creator has eternal life in Himself), and you believe this original and first lie regarding eternal life being possessed by the created being in himself (now you say the creature possesses eternal life "in the creature's own spirit") despite the fact that over and over again scripture clearly negates what you say.

I believe God: "Dying you will die".

The historical evidence is there.

You believe the lie: "you will not (ever) surely die. You will be like the Most High".

I believe Christ, and His apostles:
​

"And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." -- John 15:6-7.

You believe your own doctrine: That the created being's eternal life is in himself or will be in himself.

But God says that the created being's eternal life will never be in himself but will always be in the Word in whom is life.

And God says so over and over again in the pages of scripture.

 

[rwb]

Your problem is quite evidently that you believe that whether alive in body, soul and spirit (i.e whole) or alive in spirit but dead in the body, you believe that the creature's spirit - which is born of God - has eternal life in the creature's own spirit, i.e in the creature, the created being - whose eternal life scripture states very clearly is in Christ, whom scripture states very clearly alone has eternal life in Himself (because only God our Creator has eternal life in Himself), and you believe this original and first lie regarding eternal life being possessed by the created being in himself (now you say the creature possesses eternal life "in the creature's own spirit") despite the fact that over and over again scripture clearly negates what you say.

The spirit that returns to God when our natural, mortal body of flesh dies, returns to Him either with life through the Spirit of Christ within, or for the spirit of man after physical death without the Spirit of Christ within remains in silence and darkness after our body of flesh returns to dust from which is came. I've never said or even implied that any living, breathing creature upon this earth has life within themselves. The physical life that every living, breathing creature possesses comes from God, who alone gives life. And whosoever is born again is born of God. The Spirit of Christ within gives man eternal spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ because eternal life comes from the Spirit Who is God. You are the one believing the doctrine of deception called Premillennialism! For that reason, you fail to understand the difference between eternal spiritual life and immortal/incorruptible physical life that shall be for all who are born again.

Again, you show you cannot distinguish between eternal spiritual life that comes from God that believers possess NOW, and immortal physical life that faithful saints shall also receive from God when Christ comes again. You seem to believe that eternal life that comes from God the Holy Spirit within is not possible without a mortal body of flesh? Why? Because you don't believe Christ when He tells us that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die! Christ said this knowing that every mortal body of flesh and bone is destined to die! Death cannot kill the spirit of man that has been born again! It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh profits nothing! Yet the life we receive through the Spirit of Christ within when we are born again is ETERNAL and shall NEVER die!

 

[CadyandZoe]

TIMES JESUS HIMSELF IS QUOTED SPEAKING TO HIS ASSEMBLIES AND HIS SAINTS IN HIS REVELATION​

INTRODUCING HIMSELF:

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches." (Revelation 1:8, 11, 17-20).

THE FIRST SEVEN MESSAGES ALL END WITH:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes ..

--- FOLLOWING THIS THERE IS A SERIES OF VISIONS INCLUDING VISIONS REGARDING THE TIME OF THE END, WHERE JESUS DOES NO TALKING ---

THEN:​

=======================================================​

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air.

And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, ---​

It is done! ​

Revelation 16:15-17

=======================================================​

THEN:

And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,​

It is done. ​

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8

THEN:

Revelation 22
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the water of life freely. Rev.22:7, 12-17.​

==========================================​

Jesus is telling us that he will make all things new when He comes, after He has destroyed the beast and false prophet.

Both Premillennialists and Amillennialists have the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time:

There is no thousand years in-between Christ's coming as a thief when He destroys the beast and false prophet and His making all things new in a new heavens and new earth.

Neither does the commencement of the thousand years precede His coming.

It will be back to what took place in the Garden of Eden:

Adam and Eve were eating freely of the tree of life and living forever. They were immortal.

Then God permitted Satan to deceive mankind. Adam and Eve believed the lie which said "You will not surely die", and sinned.

It was the first death. And it spread to all men, because all sinned.

Jesus the Son of God and Son of man and the last Adam IS the resurrection and the life. Eternal life is in Him, whom scripture tells us alone possesses immortality and alone has eternal life in Himself.

There will be a second death. It takes place at the close of the thousand years after Satan has been released to deceive mankind.

Those who take part in the Gog-Magog rebellion are not said to meet their end in the same way the beast and false prophet and the rest who were slain by the Sword that proceeded out of the mouth of Christ were:

Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured those who were deceived by Satan and gathered against the camp of the saints.

Neither are they said to meet their end at the same time as the rest of the dead who the sea delivered up - but those who took part in the Gog-Magog rebellion most certainly will have had their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Immortality is in Christ. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone is immortal and has eternal life in Himself.

"You will not surely die" is the first lie.

In the Revelation only those who had not worshiped the beast are promised that the second death will have no authority over them.
​

Christ will make all things new when He comes, just as He said. The first thousand years in the new heavens and new earth will be like the Garden of Eden was. The close of the thousand years will be like the end of the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, too. Mankind's final test.

I don't see anything that contradicts or defeats the Premillennial view.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is wrong. The second coming happens, satan is imprisoned then the thousand years happens. Satan released, a failed attack on Jerusalem and satan goes to the LOF, the GWTJ happens and more to the LOF and only after that is finished will the NHNE begin. You are misplacing the start of the NHNE.

Good summary.

 

[Zao is life]

I don't see anything that contradicts or defeats the Premillennial view.

Only one part of the Premillennial view: That the NHNE commences after the thousand years.

Amillennialists and Premillennialists are on the same page when they all say that the NHNE follows the millennium.

Too many statements in the Bible that negate the idea. The only possibility is that the NHNE and the millennium commence together after the return of Christ. There is the Garden of Eden all over again. One last time the sabbath closes with Satan being permitted to deceive mankind.

Take it or leave it. Most leave it. Only one other person I've seen in these forums believes the same way, so you can't be blamed if you also reject it.