WHAT ALMOST ALL PREMILLENNIALISTS DO NOT NOTICE OR REFUSE TO SEE

[Zao is life]

TIMES JESUS HIMSELF IS QUOTED SPEAKING TO HIS ASSEMBLIES AND HIS SAINTS IN HIS REVELATION​

INTRODUCING HIMSELF:

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches." (Revelation 1:8, 11, 17-20).

THE FIRST SEVEN MESSAGES ALL END WITH:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes ..

--- FOLLOWING THIS THERE IS A SERIES OF VISIONS INCLUDING VISIONS REGARDING THE TIME OF THE END, WHERE JESUS DOES NO TALKING ---

THEN:​

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Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air.

And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, ---​

It is done! ​

Revelation 16:15-17

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THEN:

And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,​

It is done. ​

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8

THEN:

Revelation 22
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the water of life freely. Rev.22:7, 12-17.​

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Jesus is telling us that he will make all things new when He comes, after He has destroyed the beast and false prophet.

Both Premillennialists and Amillennialists have the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time:

There is no thousand years in-between Christ's coming as a thief when He destroys the beast and false prophet and His making all things new in a new heavens and new earth.

Neither does the commencement of the thousand years precede His coming.

It will be back to what took place in the Garden of Eden:

Adam and Eve were eating freely of the tree of life and living forever. They were immortal.

Then God permitted Satan to deceive mankind. Adam and Eve believed the lie which said "You will not surely die", and sinned.

It was the first death. And it spread to all men, because all sinned.

Jesus the Son of God and Son of man and the last Adam IS the resurrection and the life. Eternal life is in Him, whom scripture tells us alone possesses immortality and alone has eternal life in Himself.

There will be a second death. It takes place at the close of the thousand years after Satan has been released to deceive mankind.

Those who take part in the Gog-Magog rebellion are not said to meet their end in the same way the beast and false prophet and the rest who were slain by the Sword that proceeded out of the mouth of Christ were:

Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured those who were deceived by Satan and gathered against the camp of the saints.

Neither are they said to meet their end at the same time as the rest of the dead who the sea delivered up - but those who took part in the Gog-Magog rebellion most certainly will have had their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Immortality is in Christ. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone is immortal and has eternal life in Himself.

"You will not surely die" is the first lie.

In the Revelation only those who had not worshiped the beast are promised that the second death will have no authority over them.
​

Christ will make all things new when He comes, just as He said. The first thousand years in the new heavens and new earth will be like the Garden of Eden was. The close of the thousand years will be like the end of the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, too. Mankind's final test.

 

[Davidpt]

Both Premillennialists and Amillennialists have the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time:

There is no thousand years in-between Christ's coming as a thief when He destroys the beast and false prophet and His making all things new in a new heavens and new earth.

What you are basically arguing, is it this? That the reason Premil also has the the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time, is because Premil has the thousand years, as do Amils, commencing before the time of the NHNE rather than during the time of the NHNE instead?

 

[Zao is life]

What you are basically arguing, is it this? That the reason Premil also has the the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time, is because Premil has the thousand years, as do Amils, commencing before the time of the NHNE rather than during the time of the NHNE instead?

Yes. You got it. There are a good few more scriptures which make it impossible for the millennium to commence before the NHNE.

The bride of Christ and the same promises to the bride of Christ mentioned in both Rev.7:14-17 and Rev.21:3-4 being an example, where Rev.21:7 repeats the same promise made seven times to the same group in the messages to each of the seven churches:
​

"He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.".

The same bride of Christ is seeing following Christ on white horses when He comes for the battle of Armageddon (Rev.19:14).

In the same chapter (chapter 19) we are told that "the rest [loipoí] were slain [apokteínō] with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." -- Revelation 19:21

apokteínō means to put to death, to kill, to slay, to destroy.

It can only refer to those not included in the slain mentioned in Rev.19:17-18.

"But the rest [loipoí] of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." – Revelation 20:5

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

It's resurrected saints in the millennium - "the nations of those who are saved" who will "walk in the light of New Jerusalem" whose "gates may not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night there." (Revelation 21:24-25).

It's from among those who believe that immortality is in ourselves and eternal life is in ourselves (rather than in Christ who alone possesses immortality and eternal life in Himself) who will be deceived by Satan, using the first lie: "You will not surely die".

Their names will be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life when they surround the camp of the saints, and fire will come down from God out of heaven and devour them.

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire." (Rev.20:15).

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth and circled around the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of Heaven and devoured them.
10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.​

 

[Timtofly]

Yes. You got it. There are a good few more scriptures which make it impossible for the millennium to commence before the NHNE.

The bride of Christ and the same promises to the bride of Christ mentioned in both Rev.7:14-17 and Rev.21:3-4 being an example, where Rev.21:7 repeats the same promise made seven times to the same group in the messages to each of the seven churches:
​

"He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.".

The same bride of Christ is seeing following Christ on white horses when He comes for the battle of Armageddon (Rev.19:14).

In the same chapter (chapter 19) we are told that "the rest [loipoí] were slain [apokteínō] with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." -- Revelation 19:21

apokteínō means to put to death, to kill, to slay, to destroy.

It can only refer to those not included in the slain mentioned in Rev.19:17-18.

"But the rest [loipoí] of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." – Revelation 20:5

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

It's resurrected saints in the millennium - "the nations of those who are saved" who will "walk in the light of New Jerusalem" whose "gates may not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night there." (Revelation 21:24-25).

It's from among those who believe that immortality is in ourselves and eternal life is in ourselves (rather than in Christ who alone possesses immortality and eternal life in Himself) who will be deceived by Satan, using the first lie: "You will not surely die".

Their names will be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life when they surround the camp of the saints, and fire will come down from God out of heaven and devour them.

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire." (Rev.20:15).

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth and circled around the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of Heaven and devoured them.
10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.​

So a thousand years after the NHNE, people are still being cast into the LOF in this eternal kingdom you describe? Why stop at a thousand years? Why not still be casting people into the LOF for all eternity?

 

[Zao is life]

So a thousand years after the NHNE, people are still being cast into the LOF in this eternal kingdom you describe? Why stop at a thousand years? Why not still be casting people into the LOF for all eternity?

Your question betrays either the fact that you have never read what the text in Revelation 20 says, or you have read it but seek to pretend you do not know what it says (which would betray a disingenuous motive on your part for asking the above silly question).

If you have never read Revelation 20, then first read the chapter, because it's not what the text says (therefore it's not what I said).

Revelation 20 says that after a thousand years into the NHNE, there will be (one) final rebellion on behalf of the part mankind that had been deceived by Satan, and this will result in the destruction of Satan in the lake of fire (once) and be followed by death and hades being destroyed in the lake of fire (once) and the (ONE) final judgment will result in all whose names are not found in the Lamb's book of life - including those whose names were blotted out - being destroyed in the lake of fire - once.
​

So you need to take your ridiculous question "Why stop at a thousand years? Why not still be casting people into the LOF for all eternity?" to God, since it is His will that is being reflected in what Revelation 20 says is going to occur - ONCE - at the close of the thousand years.

If part of your motive for your contribution in these forums were not to play games and imply that posters posted or meant what they clearly did not, you would have thought twice before asking such a question.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no thousand years in-between Christ's coming as a thief when He destroys the beast and false prophet and His making all things new in a new heavens and new earth.
​

This is wrong. The second coming happens, satan is imprisoned then the thousand years happens. Satan released, a failed attack on Jerusalem and satan goes to the LOF, the GWTJ happens and more to the LOF and only after that is finished will the NHNE begin. You are misplacing the start of the NHNE.

 

[Zao is life]

This is wrong. The second coming happens, satan is imprisoned then the thousand years happens. Satan released, a failed attack on Jerusalem and satan goes to the LOF, the GWTJ happens and more to the LOF and only after that is finished will the NHNE begin. You are misplacing the start of the NHNE.

Maybe most Premillennialists have misplaced it.

If the thousand years cannot possibly commence with the new heavens and new earth then there was no Garden of Eden either.

@ewq1938 The garden of Eden was fine until Satan deceived mankind.

 

[Timtofly]

Your question betrays either the fact that you have never read what the text in Revelation 20 says, or you have read it but seek to pretend you do not know what it says (which would betray a disingenuous motive on your part for asking the above silly question).

If you have never read Revelation 20, then first read the chapter, because it's not what the text says (therefore it's not what I said).

Revelation 20 says that after a thousand years into the NHNE, there will be (one) final rebellion on behalf of the part mankind that had been deceived by Satan, and this will result in the destruction of Satan in the lake of fire (once) and be followed by death and hades being destroyed in the lake of fire (once) and the (ONE) final judgment will result in all whose names are not found in the Lamb's book of life - including those whose names were blotted out - being destroyed in the lake of fire - once.
​

So you need to take your ridiculous question "Why stop at a thousand years? Why not still be casting people into the LOF for all eternity?" to God, since it is His will that is being reflected in what Revelation 20 says is going to occur - ONCE - at the close of the thousand years.

If part of your motive for your contribution in these forums were not to play games and imply that posters posted or meant what they clearly did not, you would have thought twice before asking such a question.

According to you though, people are still being born throughout the 1,000 years in need of being cast into the LOF. That is your interpretation. God's Word states the NHNE is after the 1,000 years.

I am going by your interpretation, not what Scripture states. You should be able to defend your interpretation, instead of turning the point about me, and God's Word.

When the NHNE starts no one should be found guilty per Scripture. Yet you start your NHNE a thousand years too soon, and many are found guilty of disobedience. That is your interpretation, and the NHNE starting a thousand years before the GWT, is found no where in Scripture. You have no proof that disobedience will stop, because you already claim disobedience and guilt continues. No verse claims disobedience and guilt stops after the thousand years. Yet you have Satan being loosed to attack the New Jerusalem and on the NHNE.

I have read Revelation 20. It is chronologically after Revelation 19, and chronologically prior to Revelation 21. The NHNE cannot start until this current creation stops and is handed back to God by Jesus per 1 Corinthians 15. The NHNE are not part of that being made alive detail. The NHNE do not need to be handed back after the Day of the Lord. The NHNE do not even start until the Day of the Lord is complete.

When current creation is subdued and returns to God, which John symbolizes as "fled away", and no longer found, how could the NHNE no longer be found, if you claim it already started a thousand years prior? Seems you put the end of Revelation 20 at the beginning of Revelation 20.

 

[Timtofly]

Maybe most Premillennialists have misplaced it.

If the thousand years cannot possibly commence with the new heavens and new earth then there was no Garden of Eden either.

@ewq1938 The garden of Eden was fine until Satan deceived mankind.

No. No one believes that except you. Your argument means neither the NHNE nor the Garden of Eden can exist. You have Satan released in both. The NHNE does not exist based on Satan being loosed therein. That is the whole point of the NHNE not starting until after Satan's little season.

There was a Day of the Lord prior to the Garden of Eden. The Garden was not even part of that first Day of the Lord. The Garden was planted after that Day of the Lord. Satan was not allowed to do anything during that Day of the Lord either.

The Garden does not represent the Millennium nor the NHNE. The Garden represents the first church and congregation founded on the earth. The first Pastor disobeyed God, and plunged the world into the spiritual darkness of sin and death.

The Day of the Lord at the end of creation is the same as the Day of the Lord at the very beginning of creation. A thousand year Sabbath and rest from work. Not a rest from doing things, but the labor as punishment for Adam's disobedience.

The Garden does not represent the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the same Paradise and Garden preserved in heaven since before the Flood. The New Jerusalem is Paradise 2.0. Paradise cannot come to earth during this creation. The current Jerusalem is the seat of God's throne on earth during the Day of the Lord.

Paradise was opened at the Cross, and Adam's offspring could now physically enter what was once a banned Garden of Eden. Satan is not loosed after the Day of the Lord to once again assault the Garden of Eden. Satan is loosed to allow any of Adam's offspring having been born during the Millennium to follow Satan or God. Paradise returns as the New Jerusalem after Satan is placed into the LOF.

What you and all Premil do that is wrong is place the church on the earth during the Day of the Lord. The church is not living on the earth now, but in Paradise. Those redeemed and being redeemed cannot call earth their home. They are only ambassadors of Paradise. The church remains in Paradise in heaven during the Millennium. The final harvest of sheep and wheat after the Second Coming are the firstfruits who live on the earth during the earthly reign of Christ as King.

The only difference between you and most all Premil is that the church brings their home to the earth for the Day of the Lord. Both you and they are wrong. The church is not yet part of life on earth, just like all those billions currently in Paradise are not hiding out on the earth right now. Paradise is not some hidden dimension on the earth, that is revealed as a city called New Jerusalem at the Second Coming. John clearly sees that city descend from heaven after Satan is cast into the LOF. You may as well claim the New Jerusalem is currently on the earth, we just cannot see it. Like the Preterist it should have descended in the first century.

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ will make all things new when He comes, just as He said. The first thousand years in the new heavens and new earth will be like the Garden of Eden was. The close of the thousand years will be like the end of the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, too. Mankind's final test.

Jesus returns in the resurrection and final judgment of all, at this time eternity begins in the twinkling of an eye

 

[ewq1938]

Maybe most Premillennialists have misplaced it.

If the thousand years cannot possibly commence with the new heavens and new earth then there was no Garden of Eden either.

The garden has no relation to this subject.

@ewq1938 The garden of Eden was fine until Satan deceived mankind.

It was not fine at all. It contained access to a forbidden fruit, and satan also had access to it and to those who lived there.

 

[Zao is life]

It was not fine at all. It contained access to a forbidden fruit, and satan also had access to it and to those who lived there.

Just like in the millennium, and just like at the close of a period of time in the Garden of Eden, so at the close of the millennium Satan is permitted to test mankind through deceit.

The Garden of Eden tells us about the millennium and the close of it. The Garden of Eden did not cease to exist. Adam was expelled from it. Those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he had been taken.
24 And He drove out the man. And He placed cherubs at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

PS: The new heavens and new earth and the resurrection of the body go hand-in-hand. Paul links the regeneration of all creation to the revealing of the sons of God and the resurrection of our bodies, and states that for now we still in the hope of it because it is not yet seen.
​

Romans 8
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was not willingly subjected to vanity, but because of Him who subjected it on hope
21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it?
25 But if we hope for that which we do not see, then we wait for it with patience.

 

[Zao is life]

According to you though, people are still being born throughout the 1,000 years in need of being cast into the LOF

Stop lying about what I said.

I can't take you seriously. I've ignored the rest of what you wrote because it already starts with a lying misrepresentation claiming I said or claim something I have never said or claimed, You just keep misrepresenting either what is written in scripture or the things I said in my posts, or else claim that I said things I have never ever said.

Your lies are annoying and It's a waste of time reading what you have to say.

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus returns in the resurrection and final judgment of all, at this time eternity begins in the twinkling of an eye

Jesus returns a thousand years before the resurrection and final judgment of all. You don't believe what is written.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus returns a thousand years before the resurrection and final judgment of all. You don't believe what is written.

 

[Truth7t7]

Its you who doesn't believe the scriptures below

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[ewq1938]

Just like in the millennium, and just like at the close of a period of time in the Garden of Eden, so at the close of the millennium Satan is permitted to test mankind through deceit.
​

There's no comparison. Satan was freely in the garden able to deceive mankind but is not free in the Earth to deceive mankind during the Millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

Stop lying about what I said.

I can't take you seriously. I've ignored the rest of what you wrote because it already starts with a lying misrepresentation claiming I said or claim something I have never said or claimed, You just keep misrepresenting either what is written in scripture or the things I said in my posts, or else claim that I said things I have never ever said.

Your lies are annoying and It's a waste of time reading what you have to say.

People are still being cast into the LOF 1,000 years after your NHNE. How is that a lie misrepresenting you?

Please stop calling the Day of the Lord the NHNE. You are as sensitive as Amil who call the Day of the Lord the here and now.

You both feel misrepresented by God's Word.

Stop misrepresenting God's Word and that feeling will go away.

 

[Truth7t7]

There's no comparison. Satan was freely in the garden able to deceive mankind but is not free in the Earth to deceive mankind during the Millennium.

No such thing as a future Millennium on this earth, it's a man made fairy tale

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End) all in the twinkling of an eye

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is wrong. The second coming happens, satan is imprisoned then the thousand years happens. Satan released, a failed attack on Jerusalem and satan goes to the LOF, the GWTJ happens and more to the LOF and only after that is finished will the NHNE begin. You are misplacing the start of the NHNE.

Yours are wrong too. The events go like this:

The Cross. Satan bound. Christ established the church. Two Witnesses testimony for 1,260 symbolic years until the last Elect is secured. Two Witnesses' testimony finished. The beast comes out of a bottomless pit to overcome and kill (silenced) Two Witnesses' testimony. Great Tribulation starts with spiritual famine, spiritual war, and spiritual disease WITHIN the congregations of God - where Two Witnesses are lying dead (symbolically of course). The abomination of desolation set up. The Elects are told to come out of church when they "see" the abomination of desolation. God judges His unfaithful church (aka Babylon the Great) for symbolically one hour. After this, the Second Coming of Christ at the Last Trump with the rapture of the "alive and remain" Elect. Judgment of the World. All wicked thrown into the Lake of Fire. NHNE begins.