HELLUCINATIONS

[Douggg]

Denying a rapture to heaven does not disqualify one from being raptured. The only requirement is to be a saved Christ who is alive on Earth when it is time for the rapture. This is why it isn't possible to somehow miss the rapture if you are saved and alive at that time.

Anyone who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven, should it take place, will not be included.

It is similar to anyone who goes to lengths to deny Jesus's death on the cross provides for atonement of one's sins - will that person be saved if they die in that state of denial ? No.

 

[ewq1938]

Anyone who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven, should it take place, will not be included.

Nope. Whether one is raptured or not has nothing to do with how they understand the rapture.

It is similar to anyone who goes to lengths to deny Jesus's death on the cross provides for atonement of one's sins - will that person be saved if they die in that state of denial ? No.

Apples are not oranges. So?

 

[Douggg]

Nope. Whether one is raptured or not has nothing to do with how they understand the rapture.

It has do with who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven will not be taken,

 

[Bladerunner]

That doesn't prove they are men/human because angels have heads.

the elders are of the Church saints. During King David time, he set up 24 judging thrones where the Levis would take turns sitting in them..this way every day was covered by the priests whatever the need..The thrones in Heaven are from this design:

 

[Bladerunner]

The usual nasty and unchristian response to people who refute the rapture to heaven.
At the Judgment; expect to have Jesus ask why you cosigned fellow Christians to what you falsely believed to be a bad time.

I don;t think it is nasty. Is this the Millennium that we are in? Read Isaiah 11:1-10.....The look to the part in Revelation that references this prophecy. It is true, when the Rapture happens, Gods elect that have not been justified at that time will have to be martyred in the years that following to include Daniels 70th week..

 

[Bladerunner]

It has do with who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven will not be taken,

No douggg...it is not who denies the Rapture but why they are denying it.

 

[Bladerunner]

Anyone who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven, should it take place, will not be included.

why are they denying that is clearly in the Bible as an event that will happen. they are not part of the Church. they are not saved.

It is similar to anyone who goes to lengths to deny Jesus's death on the cross provides for atonement of one's sins - will that person be saved if they die in that state of denial ? No.

Oh Yes they will,

 

[ewq1938]

It has do with who goes to lengths to deny that there will be a rapture/resurrection event to heaven will not be taken,

No, that doesn't come from the bible. That is a scare tactic to force people into accepting Pretrib.

 

[Douggg]

No, that doesn't come from the bible. That is a scare tactic to force people into accepting Pretrib.

If a person does not believe in a Pre-70th week rapture timing, then that is a different matter - than going to lengths preaching there will be no rapture/resurrection event to heaven.

And even if a person does not believe in a pre-70th week rapture timing, the person at least should acknowledge the possibility.

 

[Douggg]

Oh Yes they will,

If a person dies, rejecting Jesus's death on the cross for atonement for their sins, they will die in their sins, unsaved.

 

[Jay Ross]

One would have thought that Daniel would have said that there was a pre-trib rapture, but this is what He wrote: -

Daniel 12:1-3: - Prophecy of the End Time​

​

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,​

The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;​

And there shall be a time of trouble,​

Such as never was since there was a nation,​

Even to that time.​

And at that time your people shall be delivered,​

Everyone who is found written in the book.​

2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,​

Some to everlasting life,​

Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

3Those who are wise shall shine​

Like the brightness of the firmament,​

And those who turn many to righteousness​

Like the stars forever and ever.​

I see no mention of a pre-trib rapture mentioned in these verses.

Notice that at that time both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised up to be judged on the face of the earth.

Shalom

 

[Keraz]

If a person does not believe in a Pre-70th week rapture timing, then that is a different matter - than going to lengths preaching there will be no rapture/resurrection event to heaven.

And even if a person does not believe in a pre-70th week rapture timing, the person at least should acknowledge the possibility.

This is simply foolishness.
There is just NO possibility that the Lord will take His Church to live in heaven. Scripture never says it and Jesus refutes it in six verses.

I don;t think it is nasty. Is this the Millennium that we are in? Read Isaiah 11:1-10.....The look to the part in Revelation that references this prophecy. It is true, when the Rapture happens, Gods elect that have not been justified at that time will have to be martyred in the years that following to include Daniels 70th week..

We are surely not in the Millennium now.

Revelation 12:14 & 17, is the scripture that tells us where the Christian peoples will be during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.
Those who prove their faith and trust in the Lord thru all the Prophesied things from Rev 6:12 to when the 'beast' conquers the holy people, Rev 13:5-7, will be taken to a place of safety on earth.
Those who violated the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, must remain in the holy Land, under the power of the Anti-Christ world leader.

 

[Douggg]

One would have thought that Daniel would have said that there was a pre-trib rapture, but this is what He wrote: -

Daniel 12:1-3: - Prophecy of the End Time​

​

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,​

The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;​

And there shall be a time of trouble,​

Such as never was since there was a nation,​

Even to that time.​

And at that time your people shall be delivered,​

Everyone who is found written in the book.​

2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,​

Some to everlasting life,​

Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

3Those who are wise shall shine​

Like the brightness of the firmament,​

And those who turn many to righteousness​

Like the stars forever and ever.​

I see no mention of a pre-trib rapture mentioned in these verses.

Notice that at that time both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised up to be judged on the face of the earth.

Shalom

Jay, Daniel's people are the Jews. Their nation is the nation of Israel. And currently, Israel does not believe that Jesus is the messiah.

So the rapture/resurrection event - that is for Christians only, is not something projected for them.

The passages in Daniel 12:1-3 regarding being resurrected, will take place at the time of the end. The Jews will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years - but that will be after the rapture/resurrection event has taken place.

The Jews who do turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years, will be resurrected to life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[ewq1938]

If a person does not believe in a Pre-70th week rapture timing, then that is a different matter - than going to lengths preaching there will be no rapture/resurrection event to heaven.

And even if a person does not believe in a pre-70th week rapture timing, the person at least should acknowledge the possibility.

Still, denial of a rapture to heaven does not affect whether one is raptured or not.

 

[ewq1938]

The Jews who do turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years, will be resurrected to life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

The second resurrection happens before the GWTJ, and no one receives eternal life there because they are the rejects of the first resurrection meaning they weren't saved and could not be resurrected with the first group. That first group get the resurrection of life whereas the second group (all of them) are the resurrection of damnation.

There is no group of mixed resurrections of life and damnation.

All scriptures show the resurrection of life first, and the damned in the second.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.


Luk 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
Luk 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

He did not say the resurrection of the just and unjust. He said only the just. Again, this is evidence of two separate resurrections. The resurrection of the just is only of the just, no one else.

 

[Douggg]

The second resurrection happens before the GWTJ, and no one receives eternal life there because they are the rejects of the first resurrection meaning they weren't saved and could not be resurrected with the first group. That first group get the resurrection of life whereas the second group (all of them) are the resurrection of damnation.

There is no group of mixed resurrections of life and damnation.

All scriptures show the resurrection of life first, and the damned in the second.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.


Luk 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
Luk 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

He did not say the resurrection of the just and unjust. He said only the just. Again, this is evidence of two separate resurrections. The resurrection of the just is only of the just, no one else.

There will be three mass resurrections.

1. the rapture/resurrection of them in Christ event to heaven - before the great tribulation begins.

2. the resurrection of martyred great tribulation saints, in Revelation 20:4-6.

3. the resurrection of the rest of the dead for the Great White Throne judgment. Some to eternal life. Some to eternal separation from God.

 

[Keraz]

There will be three mass resurrections.

1. the rapture/resurrection of them in Christ event to heaven - before the great tribulation begins.

2. the resurrection of martyred great tribulation saints, in Revelation 20:4-6.

3. the resurrection of the rest of the dead for the Great White Throne judgment. Some to eternal life. Some to eternal separation from God.

1/ No scriptural support whatsoever. It will not and cannot happen.
2/ To happen when Jesus Returns, but only back to physical life.
3/ Revelation 20:11-15, is the Spiritual resurrection of everyone who has ever lived, to stand before God in Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 describes this event and the outcome for those whose names are found in the Book of Life.

 

[ewq1938]

There will be three mass resurrections.

The bible only speaks of two. I showed the verses.

1. the rapture/resurrection of them in Christ event to heaven - before the great tribulation begins.

2. the resurrection of martyred great tribulation saints, in Revelation 20:4-6.

This is one mass resurrection happening at the same time, not two. The resurrection happens at the second coming, immediately after the trib.

3. the resurrection of the rest of the dead for the Great White Throne judgment. Some to eternal life. Some to eternal separation from God.

None receive eternal life in the second resurrection. Eternal life is for those in the first resurrection. Damnation is for those in the second.

 

[Bladerunner]

If a person dies, rejecting Jesus's death on the cross for atonement for their sins, they will die in their sins, unsaved.

Yes, I guess I read it wrong.

 

[Bladerunner]

No, that doesn't come from the bible. That is a scare tactic to force people into accepting Pretrib.

Look ewg1938..Its not like I get something from spreading the truth about God's Word...Don't believe a thing I say, never but I do ask that you be as the bereans did in Acts 17:11. It is a choice only you can make.