The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

[St. SteVen]

... when God forgives, there is no penalty.

Sorry to pick this one phrase out of context, but I think it is critical to what I am trying to communicate.
BTW: your whole post was good. Thanks.

In the atonement there is forgiveness for all. No penalty. The death penalty for all of humankind was paid on the cross.
This doesn't mean that there will not be individual responsibility and consequences.
But ultimately, restoration and redemption will come to all. IMHO

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[Grailhunter]

Sorry to pick this one phrase out of context, but I think it is critical to what I am trying to communicate.
BTW: your whole post was good. Thanks.

In the atonement there is forgiveness for all. No penalty. The death penalty for all of humankind was paid on the cross.
This doesn't mean that there will not be individual responsibility and consequences.
But ultimately, restoration and redemption will come to all. IMHO

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The only worse heresy than OSAS that will send people to Hell is Universalism.

 

[St. SteVen]

The only worse heresy than OSAS that will send people to Hell is Universalism.

Heresies don't send people to hell, God does.

Fix your God and you won't have that problem.

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[Behold]

Heresies don't send people to hell, God does.

"Universalism": = The Heresy that you teach, will lead unbelievers to Hell, and probably already has.... @St. SteVen

Does this make you feel proud ??

See...... you teach Non-Christians, that "everyone is going to heaven".....and that is not just a Satanic Lie.....its a designed lie, a specific one, that leads unbelievers to Hell.

And......

Actually God allows a person the option of going to Heaven or not.

If not, there is only one other place, created by God, that exists in eternity.

God says.....>"Take my Son as your Savior, and come and be with Me forever."

OR...

""""Reject my Son.......die never born again.....and you remain a child of the devil and you'll go to the place that is created for Him who is YOUR Spiritual Father.""""

So, its not accurate to say that God sends people to Hell.
What He does is allow them to go.

Welcome To : "Free will".

Welcome to yours as you continue to teach a Satanic theology ("Universalism") that is designed to lead unbelievers into Hell @St. SteVen .

 

[Grailhunter]

Heresies don't send people to hell, God does.

Fix your God and you won't have that problem.

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Well I am not going to fix God and you are right heresies do not send people to Hell of course. Heresies get people to believe things that they can do that will get them judged to Hell by Christ. OSAS and Universalism will get you judged to Hell. There is no such thing as a license to sin in the scriptures.

 

[Aunty Jane]

"Universalism": = The Heresy that you teach, will lead unbelievers to Hell, and probably already has....

Anyone who teaches that God sends people to everlasting conscious torment in a fiery hell is a heretic. That defames the loving God that Yahweh is. No punishment under Israel’s law required torture.

There is no such place as “hell”, though it serves the devil well to invent such a destination.
Fear is a powerful weapon in the wrong hands….and paints God as a sadistic fiend.

Does this make you feel proud ??

See...... you teach Non-Christians, that "everyone is going to heaven".....and that is not just a Satanic Lie.....its a designed lie, a specific one, that leads unbelievers to Hell.

We all go to “hell” according to Scripture…..what are you talking about?
Show us this “hell” from the Bible…..because it simply does not exist in the way you describe it.

What words in the Bible are translated erroneously as “hell”?
The Hebrew word “Sheol” was a word understood by the Jews, but it didn’t mean a place for souls to be roasted…..it was simply “the grave“ if you consult an Interlinear or Jewish Tanakh…
Solomon wrote in Eccl 9:3-6, 10….

3 This is the most evil in all that is done under the sun, that all have one occurrence, and also the heart of the children of men is full of evil, and there is madness in their heart in their lifetime, and after that they go to the dead.		גזֶ֣ה | רָ֗ע בְּכֹ֤ל אֲשֶֽׁר־נַֽעֲשָׂה֙ תַּ֣חַת הַשֶּׁ֔מֶשׁ כִּֽי־מִקְרֶ֥ה אֶחָ֖ד לַכֹּ֑ל וְגַ֣ם לֵ֣ב בְּֽנֵי־הָֽ֠אָדָ֠ם מָֽלֵא־רָ֨ע וְהֽוֹלֵל֤וֹת בִּלְבָבָם֙ בְּחַיֵּיהֶ֔ם וְאַֽחֲרָ֖יו אֶל־הַמֵּתִֽים:
4 For whoever is joined to all the living has hope, for concerning a live dog [it is said that] he is better than a dead lion.		דכִּי־מִי֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יְחֻבַּ֔ר (כתיב יְבֻחַ֔ר) אֶ֥ל כָּל־הַֽחַיִּ֖ים יֵ֣שׁ בִּטָּח֑וֹן כִּֽי־לְכֶ֤לֶב חַי֙ ה֣וּא ט֔וֹב מִן־הָֽאַרְיֵ֖ה הַמֵּֽת:
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten.		הכִּ֧י הַֽחַיִּ֛ים יֽוֹדְעִ֖ים שֶׁיָּמֻ֑תוּ וְהַמֵּתִ֞ים אֵינָ֧ם יֽוֹדְעִ֣ים מְא֗וּמָה וְאֵֽין־ע֤וֹד לָהֶם֙ שָׂכָ֔ר כִּ֥י נִשְׁכַּ֖ח זִכְרָֽם:
6 Also their love, as well as their hate, as well as their provocation has already been lost, and they have no more share forever in all that is done under the sun.		וגַּ֣ם אַֽהֲבָתָ֧ם גַּם־שִׂנְאָתָ֛ם גַּם־קִנְאָתָ֖ם כְּבָ֣ר אָבָ֑דָה וְחֵ֨לֶק אֵֽין־לָהֶ֥ם עוֹד֙ לְעוֹלָ֔ם בְּכֹ֥ל אֲשֶֽׁר־נַֽעֲשָׂ֖ה תַּ֥חַת הַשָּֽׁמֶשׁ:

10 Whatever your hand attains to do [as long as you are] with your strength, do; for there is neither deed nor reckoning, neither knowledge nor wisdom in the grave, [sheol] where you are going.

יכֹּ֠ל אֲשֶׁ֨ר תִּמְצָ֧א יָֽדְךָ֛ לַֽעֲשׂ֥וֹת בְּכֹֽחֲךָ֖ עֲשֵׂ֑ה כִּי֩ אֵ֨ין מַֽעֲשֶׂ֤ה וְחֶשְׁבּוֹן֙ וְדַ֣עַת וְחָכְמָ֔ה בִּשְׁא֕וֹל אֲשֶׁ֥ר אַתָּ֖ה הֹלֵ֥ךְ שָֽׁמָּה:

Sheol is “the grave”…..nothing more. This is what Jewish Scripture taught. That is why “a live dog is better off than a dead lion.” “The dead know nothing” and even their love is lost.
The grave is the destination for all who die….even the animals die the same death as we do. (Eccl 3:19-20) We have no advantage over them in death….only in a resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it. There are no immortal souls….that was adopted from the pagan Greeks.
Perhaps you need to do a little more research instead of adopting lies from pagans.

In the Greek Septuagint, used by the apostles, “Sheol is translated as “hades”…..so “hades” is no more about a fiery “hell” than Sheol is.

If you want to use “Gehenna”, well that is a completely different word, well understood by Jesus’ Jewish audience…..it was a reference to a rubbish dump in the Valley of Hinnom, which was just outside of the walls of Jerusalem. Fires were kept burning day and night to consume the refuse. Carcasses of dead animals were cast into the flames and so were the bodies of executed criminals not considered worthy of a decent burial. Thus disposed of, these ones were not considered worthy of a resurrection either…..so no grave marker to attest to the fact they had ever lived…..there is where the “fire is not quenched and the worms do not die”…..what the flames missed, the maggots finished off. “The lake of fire” is an everlasting symbol created by Gehenna….and means a death from which no one returns.


Your “hell” is a satanic lie.

Actually God allows a person the option of going to Heaven or not.

No, I am afraid you are mistaken….God is the one who chooses his elect to rule in the heavenly Kingdom with his son, and thus why they are called “joint heirs with Christ”…..these “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6) will rule over redeemed mankind on earth so as to get us back to God’s original purpose for the human race…..heaven was never offered to anyone else, because God created us to live here on earth forever, and provided the means….when disobedience separated humankind from their Creator that means was taken away. (Gen 3:22-24)

If not, there is only one other place, created by God, that exists in eternity.

Rubbish! God made humans to live right here on earth forever…..that never changed. (Isa 55:11)

God says.....>"Take my Son as your Savior, and come and be with Me forever."

Nope, I cannot find any expression of God that says that.
He chooses those who will rule with his son in his Kingdom, but they will have earthly subjects. (Rev 21:2-4)
These are saved by God to live where he first intended them to live.

OR...

""""Reject my Son.......die never born again.....and you remain a child of the devil and you'll go to the place that is created for Him who is YOUR Spiritual Father.""""

More rubbish! I don’t think you have the vaguest clue as to what being “born again” even means, or why it is necessary for the chosen ones, “who are bought from the earth”. All those who claim it seem to have had a different experience…..why do you think that is?
Was Adam told he had to be born again?…what about Noah…or Abraham….or Elijah…or Moses?

So, its not accurate to say that God sends people to Hell.
What He does is allow them to go.

Since there is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”….or a god who tortures people there forever, Eccl 9:10 says we all go there because it is simply mankind’s grave. A place none of us can avoid.

Anyone who would relish such an end for even their enemies is not Christian at heart. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to pray for them (Mat 5:43-44)….there are too many here who get excited over the prospect of eternal conscious punishment. Isn’t eternal death enough for you all?

Welcome to yours as you continue to teach a Satanic theology ("Universalism") that is designed to lead unbelievers into Hell

Perhaps investigate your own satanic doctrines and see how un-Christlike they really are.

 

[Grailhunter]

Don't take advise from someone that is Hell bound!

 

[Behold]

Anyone who teaches that God sends people to everlasting conscious torment in a fiery hell is a heretic.

Jesus taught More about Hell then He taught about Heaven.

So, according to the JW Cult ....and other similar who are trying to air condition Hell before they move in.......Jesus is a "heretic".

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus taught More about Hell then He taught about Heaven.

So, according to the JW Cult ....and other similar who are trying to air condition Hell before they move in.......Jesus is a "heretic".

Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic. The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox". This thread will focus on the term "heretical". In the same way that something is not considered orthodox, it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Behold]

Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic. The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox". This thread will focus on the term "heretical". In the same way that something is not considered orthodox, it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a...

www.christianityboard.com

Its pathetic, that on one hand you teach a demonic theology, as your "gospel" , = Universalism, that tries to lead unbelievers into Hell, while at the same time, you try to deny Hell on this Forum.......or you try to create the false impression that God is not just, regarding His dealing with Sin.

 

[The Learner]

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.
As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur.
Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you)

- What's your definition of hell?
- How do you see the final judgment playing out?
- Will everyone be saved in the end?
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

See the OP for video and more info. Thanks.

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- What's your definition of hell? It is seperation in a very hot place. Bring your fireproof skies.

- How do you see the final judgment playing out? Matthew 25:46

- Will everyone be saved in the end? Unfortuneatly NO.

- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his? No.

 

[The Learner]

Heresies don't send people to hell, God does.

Fix your God and you won't have that problem.

[

Our sins and turning our back on God in my humble opion.

 

[The Learner]

 

[Triumph1300]

Garbage Music in my opinion.
Sounds satanic.

 

[Freedm]

"Universalism": = The Heresy that you teach, will lead unbelievers to Hell, and probably already has.... @St. SteVen

Does this make you feel proud ??

See...... you teach Non-Christians, that "everyone is going to heaven".....and that is not just a Satanic Lie.....its a designed lie, a specific one, that leads unbelievers to Hell.

And......

Actually God allows a person the option of going to Heaven or not.

If not, there is only one other place, created by God, that exists in eternity.

God says.....>"Take my Son as your Savior, and come and be with Me forever."

OR...

""""Reject my Son.......die never born again.....and you remain a child of the devil and you'll go to the place that is created for Him who is YOUR Spiritual Father.""""

So, its not accurate to say that God sends people to Hell.
What He does is allow them to go.

Welcome To : "Free will".

Welcome to yours as you continue to teach a Satanic theology ("Universalism") that is designed to lead unbelievers into Hell @St. SteVen .

I've learned to not be so quick to say "this or that" is a heresy, or a lie. There are many topics discussed in the Bible, for which you can pull arguments both for and against, from that same Bible, even to the point of finding outright contradictions. Including universalism.

 

[Behold]

I've learned to not be so quick to say "this or that" is a heresy, or a lie. There are many topics discussed in the Bible, for which you can pull arguments both for and against, from that same Bible, even to the point of finding outright contradictions. Including universalism.

Christians are not supposed to be unable to know what to believe for certain.
And you have now shown us that you are double minded, and can only see verses and situations as .... well there is another point of view...

And do you know that this is How Satan confused and deceived Eve?
He told her......>>"Well, there is always another viewpoint, regarding what GOD said".
So he showed her one and deceived her completely.

See that?.......so that is the same as...>>"well, who can really know?......who can know for certain.......after all, there are many opinions"..

So, let me show you this.. @Freedm

God is the TRUTH, and Jesus is The Truth, .. John 14:6..... and the NT Doctrine, is the same.
So, when any theology denies it, such as UNIVERSALISM denies Paul's Gospel, then you are dealing with what Hebrews 13:9 reveals as a "doctrine of Devils".

There are many, "out there".

Here are a few of these demonic Heresies, regarding their Theology.

Catholicism
Mormonism
JW
Calvinism
Universalism.

 

[St. SteVen]

... UNIVERSALISM denies Paul's Gospel...

Are you sure?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

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[Behold]

Are you sure?

Am i sure that if you try to prove that everyone will be saved, and do not have to trust in Christ and be born again before they die, that you are teaching a false satanic Gospel?

Of Course.

You are this one..

Galatians 1:8

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)

Yes,
See, Jews received Moses Law.....Gentiles didnt.
However, everyone has a conscience, and our conscience "bears witness" that sin is wrong and if you do it, you know it... .as Paul teaches.

Have you ever read any Edgar Allen Poe?

"The Tell Tale Heart">?

That beating clock is the conscience in the killer........who isn't a Christian.

16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets

Everyone is going to Judgement, after you die......unless they are Raptured before they die. (The living Christians) or "the dead in Christ".

So, that is a Judgement that Paul teaches as "Bema seat" or "Judgement seat of Christ"......and only Christians will meet this.....and its not related to sin, its strictly a rewards banquet.

The Christ rejecting Hell bound, will meet Rev 20:11., as that is for them.

See, all who died never believing in Jesus, or all who are on the earth, when Jesus comes as 2 Thess 1:8-9, will meet God's wrath, that ive shown you 20+ times, at least in the last 2 yrs........that is... John 3:36.
So, for them, they will be judged, for not obeying the Gospel and that judgment is eternal damnation.
@St. SteVen , your false gospel is sending people to Hell, is they trust you and believe your deception.

through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Paul's gospel declares that trusting in Christ removes John 3:36......so there is no damnation as judgment found for the Born again.

 

[St. SteVen]

So, for them, they will be judged, for not obeying the Gospel.

Not what this says.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)

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[St. SteVen]

More from Paul's gospel.
The acts of two men have determined both condemnation and justification for all of humankind.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

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