The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[Douggg]

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect. Does this look like Armageddon?

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has destroyed the kings of the earth armies that will have gathered at Armageddon to make war on Him and His army.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event.

You are (mis) understanding the phrase "tribulation of those days" to mean that the entire great tribulation is over at that point.

There will still be great tribulation following the sixth seal event, such as the rape and pillage of Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2. Plus all of the armies that Jesus will destroy, resulting in the great feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

 

[Douggg]

@The Light

Here is a chart I made of the "tribulation of those days" and the "great tribulation". And the 45 day difference between the two.

And the sixth seal event to happen on day 2475. And the 7th vial poured out right before Jesus descends to the earth.

There has to be some time for the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His army. That's where the 45 days come in. 1335 days - 1290 days.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has destroyed the kings of the earth armies that will have gathered at Armageddon to make war on Him and His army.


Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event.

You are (mis) understanding the phrase "tribulation of those days" to mean that the entire great tribulation is over at that point.

There will still be great tribulation following the sixth seal event, such as the rape and pillage of Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2. Plus all of the armies that Jesus will destroy, resulting in the great feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Vs 29 and 30 is after the7 years when Jesus comes in power and great glory.
The same thing as in Rev 19.
Jesus comes in power and great glory only as a warrior and conqueror AFTER THE 7 YR GT.

 

[Douggg]

Vs 29 and 30 is after the7 years when Jesus comes in power and great glory.
The same thing as in Rev 19.
Jesus comes in power and great glory only as a warrior and conqueror AFTER THE 7 YR GT.

The great tribulation will be the last 1335 days of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

This is the end of the great tribulation...

 

[The Light]

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has destroyed the kings of the earth armies that will have gathered at Armageddon to make war on Him and His army.

Nope. Matthew 24:31 is the harvest which occurs at the 6th seal.

Here is another view of this harvest. The earth is reaped. The righteous go to heaven for the marriage supper and the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God. This another view of the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event.

You are (mis) understanding the phrase "tribulation of those days" to mean that the entire great tribulation is over at that point.

The entire great tribulation IS OVER at that point................IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Jesus comes for a harvest at the 6th seal. We see those that came out of great tribulation in heaven in Revelation 7.

Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We get another view with what occurs at the 6th seal with the harvest in Rev 14. We see those that had gotten victory over the beast. They are in heaven and will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

There will still be great tribulation following the sixth seal event, such as the rape and pillage of Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2. Plus all of the armies that Jesus will destroy, resulting in the great feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

No. There will not be tribulation after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over. Then the 7th seal opened and the wrath of God begins. Tribulation is when the dragon is trying to kill Christians. It is cut short or there would be no believers on earth that would be raptured alive.

The great tribulation is not the wrath of God. Zechariah 14:2 occurs during the wrath of God as the tribulation is over.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This is Armageddon which occurs at the end of Gods wrath.

Gods' wrath, the 7th seal, lasts one year before Armageddon occurs.

 

[The Light]

@The Light

Here is a chart I made of the "tribulation of those days" and the "great tribulation".

The tribulation of those days IS the great tribulation.

And the 45 day difference between the two.

And the sixth seal event to happen on day 2475. And the 7th vial poured out right before Jesus descends to the earth.

Impossible Doug.

The wrath of God according to scripture LASTS ONE YEAR, and then Armageddon occurs.

You just completely miss the 7th seal.

 

[Douggg]

The wrath of God according to scripture LAST ONE YEAR, and then Armageddon occurs.

You just completely miss the 7th seal.

The seventh seal, Jesus opened in Revelation 8:1 revealing what the seven trumpet plagues/judgments will be.

Seven specific angels which stood before God - were give seven trumpets. And the seven angels sounded in sequence as it was revealed what each trumpet plague/judgment will be..

In Revelation 15:1, John sees another sign in heaven - seven angels having the seven last plagues/judgments - contained in vials, the wrath of God. Revelation 16 details what each of those vials of God's wrath will be.

Armageddon, Revelation 16:16, the gathering by kings of the earth, will be started before the seventh angel pours out his vial of God's wrath in Revelation 16:17-21.

What you are not taking into account is that the gathering and preparation to make war on Jesus will last 45 days. The gathering at Armageddon is not a single day event.

The destruction of those armies, however, will be on a single day.... the day that Jesus descends to earth.

I show the gathering/preparation 45 days on my chart. And also the 7th vial of God's wrath poured out.

 

[Douggg]

No. There will not be tribulation after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over. Then the 7th seal opened and the wrath of God begins.

Jesus opened the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1. Revealing what the seven trumpet plagues/judgments will be.

The vials of Gods wrath is a different vision that John had in Revelation 15-16 - of what those plagues/judgments will be.

 

[Douggg]

The tribulation of those days IS the great tribulation.

Not all of it.

No. There will not be tribulation after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over. Then the 7th seal opened and the wrath of God begins. Tribulation is when the dragon is trying to kill Christians. It is cut short or there would be no believers on earth that would be raptured alive.

You are getting mixed up on the seventh seal. The seventh seal was opened by Jesus in Revelation 8:1 revealing what the trumpet plagues/judgments will be.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Differently, the vials of God's wrath are in Revelation 15-16, revealed what they will be.

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

See ? There is not the seventh seal being opened in Revelation 15. The opening of the seventh seal is in Revelation 8, for the trumpet plagues/judgments.

The seven trumpet plagues/judgements are revealed first.
then the seven vials of God's wrath plagues/judgements are revealed second.

 

[The Light]

Vs 29 and 30 is after the7 years when Jesus comes in power and great glory.
The same thing as in Rev 19.
Jesus comes in power and great glory only as a warrior and conqueror AFTER THE 7 YR GT.

There is no 7 year great tribulation.

Also, Jesus comes at the 6th seal IN POWER AND GLORY as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. He comes for a harvest sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

All remain in heaven and attend the marriage supper during the one year wrath of God. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

Jesus opened the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1. Revealing what the seven trumpet plagues/judgments will be.

Exactly. And this occurs immediately after the great tribulation which is over at the 6th seal.

The vials of Gods wrath is a different vision that John had in Revelation 15-16 - of what those plagues/judgments will be.

Yes the vials of God wrath is a different vision of what will occur in the 7th seal. Both the trumpets and vials are Gods wrath and occur in the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

Not all of it.

Douggg. The Word says IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days which is the great tribulation.

I'm going to go with the Word of God. You can stick with the word of Douggg if you want to be wrong.

You are getting mixed up on the seventh seal. The seventh seal was opened by Jesus in Revelation 8:1 revealing what the trumpet plagues/judgments will be.

I understand what the 7th seal is. It is the wrath of God. It occurs AFTER the great tribulation.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Differently, the vials of God's wrath are in Revelation 15-16, revealed what they will be.

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

See ? There is not the seventh seal being opened in Revelation 15. The opening of the seventh seal is in Revelation 8, for the trumpet plagues/judgments.

The seven trumpet plagues/judgements are revealed first.
then the seven vials of God's wrath plagues/judgements are revealed second.

When you are reading Revelation 11 we see that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That means that Armageddon is already over.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We have more proof that the wrath of God is over from Revelation 10. When the 7th trumpet begins to sound the mystery of God is finished. Armageddon is already over as the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

It is the time judgement.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The vials are just a different view of things that happen in 7th seal. It is a different vision of the same timeframe.

Revelation 11 is the end of Gods wrath. It is the time of judgement. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back is the 1st 6 seals.

Here is the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming Jesus for the second harvest which is the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Then wrath begins which is the 7th seal.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg. The Word says IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days which is the great tribulation.

I'm going to go with the Word of God. You can stick with the word of Douggg if you want to be wrong.

The verse does not say immediately after the great tribulation...

It says after the tribulation of those days. Indicating that not all of the great tribulation is over.

I understand what the 7th seal is. It is the wrath of God. It occurs AFTER the great tribulation.

The seventh seal is a seal on the book that Jesus opened.

The great tribulation contains both the trumpet plagues/judgments and the vials of God's wrath plagues/judgments.

When you are reading Revelation 11 we see that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That means that Armageddon is already over.

No, Revelation 11:15-19 when the seventh angel sounds, it is saying that the time has come to end Satan and his angels mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great. The rejoicing in heaven in verses 16-19 will be because them in heaven will be overjoyed that the end of Satan and his angels activities are near at hand.

Meanwhile though, for the inhabitants on earth, from Revelation 8:13, the seventh angel sounding announces the third woe to the inhabitants of the earth. Which will be Satan and his angels cast down to earth, Satan having great wrath knowing that his time is short - a time/times/half time.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[The Light]

The verse does not say immediately after the great tribulation...

It says after the tribulation of those days. Indicating that not all of the great tribulation is over.

What does it take? When will you stop?

What does it take for you to see that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation? It's clearly written in scripture. See below. Of course, the scripture does not agree with your chart but that's your fault

When will you stop making things up that are not found in scripture? The Word says that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation. See below.
Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Further proof is the great multitude comes out of great tribulation in Revelation 7.

The seventh seal is a seal on the book that Jesus opened.

The great tribulation contains both the trumpet plagues/judgments and the vials of God's wrath plagues/judgments.

According to Douggg. When we simply read scripture we see the tribulation is over at the 6th seal..............ALL OF IT. Not just part that Douggg has decided is over, all of it is over.

Again, the great tribulation is when the dragon is killing believers. The wrath of God is when God brings vengeance on unbelievers that do evil. I'm not sure why you are unable to get this. It's simple.

No, Revelation 11:15-19 when the seventh angel sounds, it is saying that the time has come to end Satan and his angels mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great. The rejoicing in heaven in verses 16-19 will be because them in heaven will be overjoyed that the end of Satan and his angels activities are near at hand.

NOPE. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The wrath of God is over. Armageddon is over.

Meanwhile though, for the inhabitants on earth, from Revelation 8:13, the seventh angel sounding announces the third woe to the inhabitants of the earth. Which will be Satan and his angels cast down to earth, Satan having great wrath knowing that his time is short - a time/times/half time.

Are you saying there is 3.5 years after the 1st four angels blow their trumpets?

 

[Douggg]

What does it take? When will you stop?

What does it take for you to see that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation? It's clearly written in scripture. See below. Of course, the scripture does not agree with your chart but that's your fault

When will you stop making things up that are not found in scripture? The Word says that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation. See below.
Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

From Matthew 24:15-21, The great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place - right ?

The great tribulation is not over until the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king is no longer standing the holy place - i.e. on the temple mount.

The great tribulation does not end until Jesus returns and destroys that statue image of the beast-king which will be indwelt by Satan. The statue image will be turned to ashes exposing Satan there on the temple mount.

See my illustration below...