Can a tare become saved?

[grafted branch]

Jesus has the keys of death, so that cannot be right. People had a choice, and they chose poorly.

satan is powerless to stop anyone from seeing the light. The Lord has restrained him, paid the penalty for the peoples sins and has taken his goods. Unfortunately, not all find repentance and love for the Lord.

If a tare has a choice then a tare can be saved, right?

 

[Davidpt]

Are you aware that literally everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ to confess that Jesus is Lord and not just those in the body of Christ?

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So, the idea that the goats only represent unprofitable servants because they refer to Him as "Lord" the same as the sheep do is not a valid argument because literally all unbelievers, and not just unprofitable servants of Christ, will be confessing that He is Lord and will call Him Lord at the judgment.

As for how to identify the sheep, you seemed to indicate that anyone who helped feed and clothe the poor "would make them the sheep in that case". Remember, the sheep inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God. Does scripture say that we are saved and inherit eternal life by our works of helping the poor? There would be a lot of Christ rejecters and those who oppose God or don't believe in God inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God if that was the case.

No, scripture says we are saved by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, you can't say that everyone who has helped the poor is automatically among the sheep on that basis alone.

Notice that Jesus said that anything that is done for the least of these His brethren is done for Him. So, that means He is differentiating between those who love others and help the needy out of their love for Him and desire to serve Him and those who either don't help the needy at all or who do so out of the wrong motivations (trying to make themselves look righteous or trying to earn salvation) instead of out of a humble desire to serve and obey Him.

We are saved by grace through faith and not by our own works of righteousness (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), but once we're saved God has good works prepared for us to do (Ephesians 2:10) which relate to loving others and helping the needy. So, what Matthew 25:31-46 is about is differentiating between those who are saved and belong to Christ and did the good works that God prepared for them and that reflect their faith and those who are not saved and therefore did not do the good works that God only prepares for those who are saved.

You do not get it. The judgment only involves those that claim a personal relationship with Christ. Unbelieving Jews, for example, can't remotely claim a personal relationship with Christ, as in, He is their Lord, He is their Savior. Nor can unrepentant atheists, etc. Nor can someone such as Cain, since it would be preposterous for someone who lived before Christ was even born, to then answer Christ like such--Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?


You cannot deny that all of the goats meant answered Jesus in the same manner. Just admit it, which doesn't mean you have to agree with my interpretation of the sheep and goats judgment, that you lack discernment altogether, that you threw it out the window, and have not even remotely interpreted the sheep and goats judgment correctly.

 

[Davidpt]

Yes, that’s why the idea of this parable being written from God’s perspective gets brought up. From God’s perspective He knows ahead of time who is or isn’t saved and that knowledge doesn’t change. So it is reasonable to say the parable is written from God’s perspective.

But if we continue with that notion then we also have to conclude that Satan isn’t bound from God’s perspective because from His perspective tares will always remain the children of Satan and they will never be wheat.

In Matthew 13:26 it’s the servants that are unaware of tares being sown in the field, some people on this thread have already claimed that the servants are the reapers/angels at the harvest. If that was so, then we have to conclude the angels aren’t aware of Satan’s activities and let’s not forget it’s an angel that binds Satan in Revelation 20 so that doesn’t fit. Also, that would make the reapers/angels incapable of removing a single tare at a time, else they will somehow be removing the wheat also. Based on that idea the reapers/angels appear to be clumsy or something because Hebrews 1:14 tells use the angels are ministering spirits to those who shall be heirs of salvation. So the reapers/angels can definitely tell the difference between tares and wheat but if someone claims they are the servants then it makes me wonder how Satan can be bound by one of these angels when they are unaware of his activities and they can’t even remove a single tare without uprooting wheat.

Excellent point about those that insist the servants are the reapers, the angels. But even when one demonstrates how absurd that is, such as you clearly did here, still, these same ones will continue to insist the servants are the reapers, the angels, regardless. It's as if something that is absurd should be acceptable and is perfectly normal. As if absurdity and perfectly normal mean the same thing.

 

[jeffweeder]

If a tare has a choice then a tare can be saved, right?

God commands all people everywhere to repent.
The tares are those that didn't.

Acts 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[grafted branch]

God commands all people everywhere to repent.
The tares are those that didn't.

Acts 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Ok, if I have your view correct then … Satan sows the tares, the tares have a choice, but from the moment they are sowed it is known that they never will choose to repent.

Wouldn’t that mean Satan does have the power of death? Satan has a choice as whether he sows tare seeds or not, so if Satan wants to have another person who is in darkness and suffers the second death, all he has to do is sow a seed and it would be guaranteed that tare will burn in the fire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So those that did get born again who backslid and went back to living in sin they are still saved?

Where did I say that? Nowhere. Anyone who does not have faith, even if they previously had it, is not saved.

No, they are children of the devil once more because they willingly turned their back on the Lord to go back in to darkness.

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

That happens to some people, yes. Where did I say otherwise?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If one is taking the tares to mean all the lost in general, it is absurd to then insist tares can't be saved. Per that scenario, of course they can be saved. Yet it makes nonsense out of the parable by viewing it in that manner. It is not until the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also, that anyone even realized there was this tares issue to begin with. As if, assuming the tares represent all of the lost, no one even noticed that there were the lost in the earth in the meantime.

I don't know what it is about some interpreters at times? They literally just don't seem to care to carefully examine details that make their interpretation unlikely rather than likely. Details such as Matthew 13:26 and how that makes total nonsense out of an interpretation that is insisting the tares mean all the lost in general. Which includes atheists, unbelieving Jews, witches, satanists, etc, except no one even realized there were any of these throughout the earth until the blade the was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Instead of trying to interpret this in light of Matthew 7, for instance, let's just ignore something Jesus said elsewhere that could shed more light on what He was meaning in Matthew 13:26 and let's just keep ignoring verse 26 and continue insisting that atheists, satantists, witches, etc, all resemble wheat in the early stages. Therefore, all of the wheat initially thought all of the lost were also them, the wheat. Some of these interpretations are downright laughable and can't be taken seriously. Such as, initially all of the wheat thought all of the lost was wheat. That's what some interpretations imply whether they want to admit it or not about their interpretation.

Read my post 549 and let me know your thoughts on it. You have definitely not given this nearly enough thought.

What your view forces you to conclude is that children of the devil, which is what the tares are (Matt 13:38-39), can't be saved despite the fact that all sinners are children of the devil before being saved.

John described children of the devil as being lost sinners in 1 John 3:8-10. How do you reconcile your understanding of the parable of the wheat and the tares with that passage? I explained how I do that in post 549.