The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

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The Light

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No, there are the 7 years of the 70th week left.
There are not 7 years remaining of the 70th week of Daniel.

Daniel 9
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

Messiah the prince was revealed after 69 weeks. Jesus was cut off 3 to 3.5 years later. Those years were after the 69th week occurred during the first part of the 70th week.

Those 7 years are the same 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9.
Ezekiel 39:9 happens after the 1000 years just as the Word of God says.
 
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Douggg

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Daniel 9
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

Messiah the prince was revealed after 69 weeks. Jesus was cut off 3 to 3.5 years later. Those years were after occurred during the first part of the 70th week.
It does not say "revealed". Jesus arrived in Jerusalem riding a donkey, hailed as the king of Israel (the messiah) by the crowd, John 12:12-15. Four days later Jesus was crucified.

Ezekiel 39:9 happens after the 1000 years just as the Word of God says.
No, there is no 7 years following the destruction of the nations armies that come up against Israel and Jerusalem in Revelation 20:8-9.

Ezekiel 39 lays out the framework which all of the end times times frames fit.

Gog/Magog - then the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 as the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27 - then at the end of the 7 years, in Ezekiel 39:17-20, the feast on the dead at Jesus's return - then in Ezekiel 39:21-29 Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having return to this earth, His Second Coming.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Not sure what the problem was. Here are my quotes from my posts

"I say the final 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made."

"As I said...........with scriptural proof...............the 7 year period will begin when a covenant with many is made such as the UN 7 year covenant that was made with many in September 2023.

We will not know which covenant it is until the Antichrist confirms a seven year covenant."
Are you saying that you believe the covenant is made at the beginning of the 7 years and confirmed at the end of the seven years?

This is no scripture that I am aware of that tells us when the covenant with many is made. After the 7-year covenant with many is made, I don't think we can determine if it is the covenant being spoken of until the Antichrist confirms it. For instance, when the UN made a 7 year covenant with many on 9/2023 we won't know if that is the correct covenant until it is confirmed by the Antichrist.

I know you don't believe this, however, the rapture of the Church will happen before the antichrist comes to power. There will be an immediate world government as "the aliens" have attacked according to the lie that will be passed to the world. Then God turns His attention to the 12 tribes across the earth. That is why there are 144,000 first fruits.
I don't mind you explaining your view to me even though you know I disagree with it (all of it, honestly). But, one thing you said here stood out that I wasn't aware that you believed. You think that a world government will be formed because of a perceived alien attack? As in, aliens from outer space?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The sanctuary in Daniel 8:13-14 is referring to the temple building. That you don't want to acknowledge that the temple that the Jews are going to build is for their worship and praise of the One True God is irrelevant to what is going to happen.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
You are not addressing my argument. Explain how a temple that God Himself would not approve of and does not command to be built could be considered "the temple of God"? Never before has a temple, literal or spiritual, that was called "the temple of God" not been a temple that God Himself would call His temple.
 

The Light

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Are you saying that you believe the covenant is made at the beginning of the 7 years and confirmed at the end of the seven years?
No. I'm saying the covenant with many is made and then later, example..........2 years later the Antichrist confirms it.

I don't mind you explaining your view to me even though you know I disagree with it (all of it, honestly). But, one thing you said here stood out that I wasn't aware that you believed. You think that a world government will be formed because of a perceived alien attack? As in, aliens from outer space?
Yes. That is when the world government will be formed. They will tell you aliens have come and taken all the people away. There are so many movies with people disappearing............take some of the Avenger's movies for instance. People disappear. The whole alien thing is a complete crock. There are no aliens. There are fallen angels however.

When the pretribulation rapture occurs, the lie will be the aliens have come and taken people away. They will claim we need a world government to stand against these aliens. They will have news reports showing alien ships flying around. There will be actual giant ships flying around to fool the world. In 1937 they built the Hindenburg which was 804 feet......which is 100 ft short of 3 football fields. With todays technology it's hard to imagine what they can do. Also with holograms they can have you believing what you see.

Satan knows there is a pretribulation rapture which is the first harvest. He has to explain it away.

A couple of years age a friend of mine wanted me to watch a movie that he really liked. He had already seen it because it was released where he lived and it was coming to my area while he visited. We watched most of it and then he is all excited because we always challenge each other when we are watching movies as to who did it or what will happen. So he says "you will never, ever, guess what is going to happen. I said I know what is going to happen and he says there is no way. I said a bunch of people are about to disappear. He was in shock because that was exactly what happened

They've been telling us "beam me up Scotty" since the 60's. Satan has programmed the world because he knows exactly what is going to happen...........the pretribulation rapture.
 

Douggg

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You are not addressing my argument. Explain how a temple that God Himself would not approve of and does not command to be built could be considered "the temple of God"? Never before has a temple, literal or spiritual, that was called "the temple of God" not been a temple that God Himself would call His temple.
Daniel 8:13-14 cancels any argument you may have against it happening. It is going to happen. There is going to be a temple built by the Jews which they will be worshiping and praising the One True God.

And offering animal sacrifices which the little horn (the Antichrist) is going to stop and commit the transgression of desolation.

When Jesus returns, He is going to cleanse the temple of those things that will have made it desolate from worship and praise of the One True God. The abomination of desolation statue image is going to be turned to ashes exposing Satan there on the temple mount. Which in Revelation 20:1-3, the angel comes down from heaven, binds Satan with a chain, and Satan cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Daniel 8:13-14 cancels any argument you may have against it happening. It is going to happen.
No, it is not. You have done NOTHING to show how some future physical temple could be considered "the temple of God". You just completely ignore my argument that God would never consider such a temple to be His temple and any temple that has ever been "the temple of God" is one that God would call His temple.

There is going to be a temple built by the Jews which they will be worshiping and praising the One True God.
That means nothing if that happens, which it probably won't, anyway.

And offering animal sacrifices which the little horn (the Antichrist) is going to stop and commit the transgression of desolation.
Who cares? That's meaningless if that happens. Any future animal sacrifices would be completely meaningless and pointless.

When Jesus returns, He is going to cleanse the temple of those things that will have made it desolate from worship and praise of the One True God.
What would Jesus care about some temple built by those who reject Him? This is nonsense.
 

Douggg

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You just completely ignore my argument that God would never consider such a temple to be His temple and any temple that has ever been "the temple of God" is one that God would call His temple.
You are giving your opinion, trying to rationalize some reason that bible prophecy is not going to be fulfilled. Differently, I am quoting the text in the bible that a temple will be built for the praise and worship of the One True God where animal sacrifice will begin again, and later be stopped by the little horn (Antichrist).

What would Jesus care about some temple built by those who reject Him? This is nonsense.
The Jews will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle of the 70th week after their bad experience of thinking that the Antichrist is their king of Israel messiah.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are giving your opinion, trying to rationalize some reason that bible prophecy is not going to be fulfilled.
You can't even bring yourself to address my argument. I can only conclude that the reason you don't even attempt to address my argument is that you know I'm right, but you would rather believe whatever you want to believe. But, feel free to prove me wrong by actually addressing my argument.

Differently, I am quoting the text in the bible that a temple will be built for the praise and worship of the One True God where animal sacrifice will begin again, and later be stopped by the little horn (Antichrist).
That can't possibly be referring to a future temple, though, and I'm showing you why. But, you don't care about that. You don't care that "the temple of God" must be a temple that God Himself would call His temple. You don't care about the scriptures which say He no longer dwells in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24). For some reason, you think you can just ignore those scriptures and ignore that you're changing "the temple of God" into some wannabe, fake temple of God that God Himself would not consider to be His temple instead.
 

Douggg

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That can't possibly be referring to a future temple, though, and I'm showing you why. But, you don't care about that. You don't care that "the temple of God" must be a temple that God Himself would call His temple. You don't care about the scriptures which say He no longer dwells in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24). For some reason, you think you can just ignore those scriptures and ignore that you're changing "the temple of God" into some wannabe, fake temple of God that God Himself would not consider to be His temple instead.
Where will Satan be standing when Revelation 20:1-3 takes place ?

Where will the beast-king and the false prophet be when Revelation 19:20 takes place

Where spot will Jesus return to when Revelation 19:19-21 takes place ?
 

The Light

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So you are claiming the little horn person of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 is Nimrod.
Yes. Nimrod is the little horn who was and is not and yet is.

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The verse above should also tell you it is impossible for the beast of the sea to be the 7th king that is killed and returns as the eighth king because
he was before John's time, is not and will ascend out the bottomless pit.

Nimrod is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian spoken of in Isaiah 14.

Jesus gives the warning to the Jews. When they say he is in the desert or in the secret chamber........go not forth. Jesus warns them that the Messiah will come as lightning from the east to the west and will not be found in the secret burial chamber.


So how is Nimrod going to come on the scene ?

They found the tomb of Gilgamesh, who is Nimrod, in Iraq in 2003. The United States went to war at that time. There were no weapons of mass destruction. There was the tomb of Nimrod......preserved. Nimrod will be cloned no doubt.

There have been 19 mummy movies made with the first being in 1932. The mummy comes back to life. Satan tells you what is going to happen because he knows. Just like Satan knew that God would send His Son to save the world. Which is why the Babylonian religion was formed where Nimrod is the sun, Semiramis the queen of heaven is the moon and Tammuz the false savior is star.
The little horn person is someone who is born and grows up in the end times. He just does not appear out of nowhere.
Oh, he's going to appear. Isaiah 14 tells us so, as does the book of Revelation.
 

WitnessX

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They found the tomb of Gilgamesh, who is Nimrod, in Iraq in 2003. The United States went to war at that time. There were no weapons of mass destruction. There was the tomb of Nimrod......preserved. Nimrod will be cloned no
Indeed they did, and that person is in plain sight.
 

Wick Stick

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Some brief information on the Rapture and the Tribulation from a dispensational perspective

The Nature of the Tribulation. Depending on the context, the word tribulation (thlipsis) can have a variety of meanings. First, it can refer to “tribulation” or “trouble” generally (John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:3; 12:12). Second, it can refer to the seven years of Daniel’s Seventieth Week (Jeremiah 30:7-9; Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1). Lastly, it can refer to the second half of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21) as opposed to the first half of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, the beginning of sorrows (24:8).

The period of the tribulation does not relate to God’s purpose for the church. The tribulation will come upon a world that is rebellious toward God (Revelation 15:1; 16:1-21; 19:15). It will reveal the nature of Satan (12:7-12). During the tribulation, the nation of Israel will be brought to repentance and faith in the Messiah in preparation for the millennium (Jeremiah 30:7-9; Zechariah 12:9-14:5; Revelation 19:1-6). The tribulation will also be a time of mass evangelism (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 6:9-11; 7:1-17; 11:2-14; 12:13-17; 13:7; 14:1-5, 12-13).

The Prophetic Timeclock. The next prophetic event on God’s timeclock is the rapture of the church. The doctrine of the rapture is taught most clearly in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. At the rapture, living Christians will be harpazo (“caught up” or “to raptured”) in the air to meet Jesus Christ. The raptured saints will be reunited with those who previously died in Christ

(1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Both will receive their glorified bodies and will be taken to the Father’s house (John 14:1-3). At the rapture, Jesus will come in the clouds for His saints; at the second coming, Jesus will come to the earth with His saints to establish the millennial kingdom.

[Just a note, no English word appears in the Greek Bible. That is a childish statement since the Greek Bible is written in Greek and the English is in another language. To most people’s surprise, ‘rapture’ appears multiple times in the Greek NT.]

It is logical that the rapture was not revealed in the Old Testament since the rapture involves the church. The church was a mystery in the Old Testament which began on the Day of Pentecost.

Christ first gave the promise of the rapture in the New Testament. However, the Old Testament promised the coming of Messiah to earth as the King. Remember, I noted that this is from a dispensational, literal interpretation method. If we are to take them NT in a literal way, then we can say with certainty that the above observation is correct.

We could use a chart to show us the outline of the various time periods as:

Prophetic Emphasis in the Bible

Old Testament Millennial Reign

Gospels Second Coming

Epistles Rapture

Revelation Tribulation


The reason for the emphasis upon the second coming in the Gospels is due to the fact that

Christ is speaking to His disciples as representatives of the Jewish nation. Their expectation would have been upon the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies of Messiah reigning upon David’s throne in Jerusalem. Therefore, it is logical to expect that the emphasis in the Gospels would be upon the coming of Christ to the nation of Israel in order to fulfill the covenantal promises and establish His kingdom on earth. Furthermore, since the Olivet Discourse is found in the Gospels then it would be logical that passages such as Matthew 24:37-44, Mark 13:32-37, and Luke 17:26-37 are not referring to the rapture; rather, they are dealing with the second coming of Christ.

Matthew’s primary purpose for writing is to prove that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah. However, this point alone is not the only purpose of the book. Matthew also writes to inform his readers of God’s kingdom program. Matthew will answer the question as to why Jesus the Messiah did not bring in the prophesied kingdom of God at His first coming. It will be clear that Israel’s rejection of their Messiah postponed the kingdom, but this does not mean the promises to national Israel are canceled.

Certainly, Matthew 23:36 does indicate the imminence of judgment upon the nations as well as the religious leaders for all their violence against the prophets. As a result, the generation will be rejected in regards to the King establishing His kingdom among them (23:37-39). However, this rejection is not permanent as the “until” in Matthew 23:39. Christ will establish the prophesied kingdom when the nation repents. In fact, one of the purposes of the tribulation is to bring Israel into a state of repentance whereby they recognize that Jesus is Messiah. It is at the end of the tribulation period, that all living Jews will acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and Romans 11:25-27 will be fulfilled when “all Israel shall be saved.”

Regarding the famous “this generation” statement:

Our Lord was not mistaken though. This generation is not a reference to the first century, but is referring to that generation living when all the signs of Matthew 24 will take place.

The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple did not signify the end (Matthew 24:6). Jesus warns the disciples about being deceived concerning false messiahs, wars, and other events. In the verses following, Jesus provides a description of what the period will be like before His coming.
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