The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[rebuilder 454]

I never said that there are two 70th weeks. I said there is a final week that begins when a 7 year covenant with many is made. We will not know if the 7 year covenant is the covenant of Daniel 9, until it is confirmed by the Antichrist.

Within the final week there are 3.5 years remaining of the 70th week of Daniel. This will not begin until the abomination of Desolation is set up.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Nothing is invented.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus comes as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

I don't know how to make it any clearer. The Word says that the tribulation of those days, which is the great tribulation, is over when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

This occurs at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is then opened, and the wrath of God begins. Tribulation is not wrath. PERIOD.

The Bible I read says
Daniel 9
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

That's 69 weeks.

Then the Word of God says
Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

Messiah is cut off at His crucifixion which is 3.5 years later.

That leaves 3.5 years and that 3.5 years will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up in the midst of the week.

3.5 years is time, times and half a time..................exactly what Daniel 12 tells us.

Dan 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Hello..one week.
In the MIDST OF THE WEEK he defiles the temple.
Factor all of it in.

That is 7 yrs of the AC.
3.5 yrs into his reign he defiles the temple.
You way overcomplicated it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be saints faithful to the end of the great tribulation, who will survive through it, including those in Judea who will flee to the mountains (where they will be protected against any attempt to destroy them) when they see the abomination of desolation setup on the temple mount.

Matthew 24:15-21
Revelation 12:14-16


It is not possible to put everything onto one chart. The rapture will take place any time between right now and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation which will trigger the beginning of the day of the Lord.

I show the rapture on this chart.

View attachment 69902



The innumerable number in Revelation 7 that have come out of the great tribulation are saints that will have died during the great tribulation, their souls in heaven.

The 144,000 are of the tribes of the children of Israel sealed before the plagues of the great tribulation begin. Revelation 7:1-8. It appears that 144,000 will be taken in the rapture, redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-5.

Nope.
It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints.
It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark.
It says the ones refusing are beheaded.
It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH.
The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC.

Concerning martyrs, they are told to REMAIN UNDER THE ALTAR UNTILL THEIR NUMBER IS COMPLETE.
The innumerable number are ALL MARTYRS, but are in the general population .
That tells us the martyrs number is complete.

The innumerable number are waving Palm branches.
In the fall feasts they wave palm branches for 7 days.
That references that the innumerable number are IN HEAVEN FOR 7 YEARS.

All that is not some coincidence.
It is Bible truth.
Nobody is going to hit the target by omission

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be saints faithful to the end of the great tribulation, who will survive through it, including those in Judea who will flee to the mountains (where they will be protected against any attempt to destroy them) when they see the abomination of desolation setup on the temple mount.

Matthew 24:15-21
Revelation 12:14-16


It is not possible to put everything onto one chart. The rapture will take place any time between right now and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation which will trigger the beginning of the day of the Lord.

I show the rapture on this chart.

View attachment 69902



The innumerable number in Revelation 7 that have come out of the great tribulation are saints that will have died during the great tribulation, their souls in heaven.

The 144,000 are of the tribes of the children of Israel sealed before the plagues of the great tribulation begin. Revelation 7:1-8. It appears that 144,000 will be taken in the rapture, redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-5.

No
The jews are a different harvest.
Romans 11.
The church is the grain.
The jews are the fruit harvest.
The 144k are called firstfruits.
That references harvest.
Firstfruits demands main harvest follows.
So Rev 14, and romans 11 MUST BE INCLUDED TOGETHER.
REV 14:14 CANNOT BE THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
THERE is nothing of rev 14 that resembles the rapture of the gentile bride.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a 7 year period (Daniel 9:27, Ezekiel 39:9). But I would not label it as being the 7 year trib - as most of the first half will not be tribulation, but a false messianic age of the Antichrist being perceived by the Jews as their long-awaited King of Israel messiah. I would refer to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 as the "70th week".

If you are Pre-trib, I would suggest that you use the term "pre-70th week" to clarify. The term Pre-trib is somewhat misleading since not all of the 7 years is tribulation.

Tedious

 

[rebuilder 454]

How do you falsely conclude this? The abomination of desolation is set up in the midst of the week. That is when the great tribulation begins.
The great tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. There is still the one year wrath of God and the Day of Atonement.

Billions of believers killed at the start of the 7yr blah blah. ( trib is forbidden, as well as gt,and wrath)
It is now the 7 yr blah blah.
The white horseman ,the AC , immediately incorporates the mark.
Billions of believers die. Unprecedented.
Never has happened before.
But please don't use that word gt.
We can not call it great trib due to doctrine sake.
Even though it is great tribulation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The great tribulation is not 7 years long. The great tribulation does not begin until the abomination of desolation is set up.......in the midst of the week.

Do you not understand that what Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 is the EXACT thing that John tells us in the 1st six seals? Don't you think that what Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 about the end of the age would be found in Revelation?

The first four seals are the beginning of sorrows. The 5th seal is the great tribulation, and the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus does not tell us about the 7th seal which is the wrath of God.

This is Jesus telling us about false Christs to come. The rider on the white horse is the first to come. He is the 7th king and one of the horns of the beast of the earth.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is Jesus' warning about the second false Christ, the 8th king who is the beast of the sea. This is Nimrod who comes from the secret chamber.

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

It correlates to the FACT that Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood and the Church will not be in heaven before the final week begins.


Right and the door to the ark is not shut 7 days before the flood. The first day of the seven, Noah loads the animals. And we don't know what day the ark door is shut.


The flood is wrath.


There is no 7 year tribulation.


Noah returns to the earth AFTER the wrath of God.


From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Messiah the prince is 69 weeks. Is Jesus crucified then? Or does He minister for 3.5 years before He is cut off. Jesus' ministry is to the Jews.

Matthew 15
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


I come up with that one because I understand that Jesus comes 69 weeks after the decree to rebuild. But He is not cut off until 3 and a half years later. And I understand that the great tribulation does not begin until the midst of the week and there is time, time and half a time remaining from that point.
I also understand that there are two raptures, and the second rapture occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE the 7th seal wrath of God.

QUOTE
"It correlates to the FACT that Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood and the Church will not be in heaven before the final week begins."

Way off.
You know how we KNOW you are wrong ?

Jesus words.
" before the flood there is Normal life and everyday life and buying and selling, Commerce, and planning for the future."
You COMPLETLY disregard what makes your Noah analogy bogus. ( You need all that setting by Jesus to be reversed)
The 7 day loading of the ark has nothing to do with making a 7 yr period in heaven go away.

You do realize you reframed Jesus words, correct?

You got the Noah analogy backwards to support your strict "trib" vs "gt" wording.

 

[Douggg]

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints.
It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark.
It says the ones refusing are beheaded.
It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH.
The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC.

You did not state what bible passages.

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints. Revelation 13:7

It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark. No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it.

It says the ones refusing are beheaded. Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15

It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH. The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11

The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC. No, it does not say that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them in Judea who flee to the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is setup, will not be accessible to be persecuted. God will protect them by supernatural means. Revelation 12:15-16.

 

[The Light]

Billions of believers killed at the start of the 7yr blah blah. ( trib is forbidden, as well as gt,and wrath)
It is now the 7 yr blah blah.
The white horseman ,the AC , immediately incorporates the mark.
Billions of believers die. Unprecedented.
Never has happened before.
But please don't use that word gt.
We can not call it great trib due to doctrine sake.
Even though it is great tribulation.

Right. Go ahead and call the great tribulation which is over at the 6th seal, the wrath of God which begins after the 7th seal is opened. Those trumpets and vials of Gods wrath are NOT the great tribulation.

Why are you unable to see the difference between the great tribulation, which is when Satan kills those that do not take the mark and the wrath of God, which is when God takes vengeance on an unbelieving world?

I'm fooling scripture. I think you are the one following doctrine.

 

[The Light]

Way off.
You know how we KNOW you are wrong ?

Jesus words.
" before the flood there is Normal life and everyday life and buying and selling, Commerce, and planning for the future."
You COMPLETLY disregard what makes your Noah analogy bogus. ( You need all that setting by Jesus to be reversed)
The 7 day loading of the ark has nothing to do with making a 7 yr period in heaven go away.

As I said, Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood. Also there is not a 7 day period where Noah Loads the animals.

You need to study Genesis 7 which says the first day of the 7 Noah loads the animals.

You do realize you reframed Jesus words, correct?

You got the Noah analogy backwards to support your strict "trib" vs "gt" wording.

If you understood Genesis 7 you would understand that the animals are loaded in one day and that day is the first of the 7

 

[rebuilder 454]

You did not state what bible passages.

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints. Revelation 13:7

It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark. No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it.

It says the ones refusing are beheaded. Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15

It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH. The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11

The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC. No, it does not say that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them in Judea who flee to the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is setup, will not be accessible to be persecuted. God will protect them by supernatural means. Revelation 12:15-16.

QUOTE
"No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it."

Bingo.
The saints refuse and are martyred.
No way to wiggle out of it.
Bible fact.
There are no saints that "go through" the trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You did not state what bible passages.

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints. Revelation 13:7

It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark. No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it.

It says the ones refusing are beheaded. Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15

It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH. The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11

The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC. No, it does not say that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them in Judea who flee to the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is setup, will not be accessible to be persecuted. God will protect them by supernatural means. Revelation 12:15-16.

QUOTE
"Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15"

Yep.
Thanks for agreeing that there are no saints "going through" the trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You did not state what bible passages.

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints. Revelation 13:7

It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark. No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it.

It says the ones refusing are beheaded. Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15

It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH. The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11

The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC. No, it does not say that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them in Judea who flee to the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is setup, will not be accessible to be persecuted. God will protect them by supernatural means. Revelation 12:15-16.

QUOTE
"The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11"


Rev 12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death

Re read it...THEY ALL DIE.
THEY , THE DEAD MARTYRS, ARE SEEN IN HEAVEN AS THE INNUMERABLE NUMBER.
IT SAYS IN BLACK AND WHITE, THEY CAME OUT OF THE TRIB.
Possibly a billion saints, In heaven, early on, in the 7 yr blah blah.

 

[rebuilder 454]

As I said, Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood. Also there is not a 7 day period where Noah Loads the animals.

You need to study Genesis 7 which says the first day of the 7 Noah loads the animals.

If you understood Genesis 7 you would understand that the animals are loaded in one day and that day is the first of the 7

QUOTE
"As I said, Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood. Also there is not a 7 day period where Noah Loads the animals.

You need to study Genesis 7 which says the first day of the 7 Noah loads the animals"

No study necessary. I already stated the 7 day period before the flood does not take away Jesus setting of;
" Buying and selling, Commerce, marriage, betrothal, normal life, everyday life, planning for the future,....which is exactly opposite of the setting that you need for your doctrine.

That's the point...and the point is you have no point in any way you like to present the 7 days before the flood.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.


Look at the problem you have.
On The one hand you make the claim that Noah was not in the Ark for 7 days before the flood.
You also claim that all the animals were loaded in 1 day and that was on the 1st day of the 7 days.
The reason you say that Noah was not in the Ark 7 days before the flood, is because it says on the self same day, Noah entered the ark.
But it also says on the self same day the animals entered the ark.
so this doctrine you are presenting has tremendous confusion

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right. Go ahead and call the great tribulation which is over at the 6th seal, the wrath of God which begins after the 7th seal is opened. Those trumpets and vials of Gods wrath are NOT the great tribulation.

Why are you unable to see the difference between the great tribulation, which is when Satan kills those that do not take the mark and the wrath of God, which is when God takes vengeance on an unbelieving world?

I'm fooling scripture. I think you are the one following doctrine.

7 yr trib as is stated in Daniel
IN THAT 7 YRS.
WE HAVE TRIB AND WRATH.

So call it the non 7 yr period

 

[rebuilder 454]

As I said, Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood. Also there is not a 7 day period where Noah Loads the animals.

You need to study Genesis 7 which says the first day of the 7 Noah loads the animals.

If you understood Genesis 7 you would understand that the animals are loaded in one day and that day is the first of the 7

I posted Gen 7 for you to reread.
It has problems for you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You did not state what bible passages.

It says the AC is given power to overcome the saints. Revelation 13:7

It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD TAKE the mark. No, it will be required to take the mark, the number of his name, his name to buy or sell. Not that everyone will do it.

It says the ones refusing are beheaded. Them who refuse to worship the image of the beast will face execution. Revelation 13:15

It says the saints overcame the AC by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH. The saints will overcome Satan, Revelation 12:11

The saints are told NOT TO RESIST THE AC. No, it does not say that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them in Judea who flee to the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is setup, will not be accessible to be persecuted. God will protect them by supernatural means. Revelation 12:15-16.

QUOTE
" no it does not say that"

Here it is.
Rev 13
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Read it carefully.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No
The jews are a different harvest.
Romans 11.
The church is the grain.
The jews are the fruit harvest.
The 144k are called firstfruits.
That references harvest.
Firstfruits demands main harvest follows.
So Rev 14, and romans 11 MUST BE INCLUDED TOGETHER.
REV 14:14 CANNOT BE THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
THERE is nothing of rev 14 that resembles the rapture of the gentile bride.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

@Douggg

 

[The Light]

Look at the problem you have.
On The one hand you make the claim that Noah was not in the Ark for 7 days before the flood.

What problem would that be? Noah was not in the ark 7 days before the flood. Plain as day in the scripture.

You also claim that all the animals were loaded in 1 day and that was on the 1st day of the 7 days.

Right........that's what the scripture says.

Noah was commanded in verse on to enter the ark.

God gave him instructions and then tells him ...... For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights;

Then Noah did what God told him to do..........And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

And we know that the animals were loaded in one day.......... In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

So it is your claim that Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood that is in error.

The reason you say that Noah was not in the Ark 7 days before the flood, is because it says on the self same day, Noah entered the ark.
But it also says on the self same day the animals entered the ark.
so this doctrine you are presenting has tremendous confusion

You are the one in confusion. The word says that Noah, his family and all of the animals entered the ark in the self same day.

 

[The Light]

7 yr trib as is stated in Daniel
IN THAT 7 YRS.
WE HAVE TRIB AND WRATH.

So call it the non 7 yr period

Please provide the Biblical verse that says there is a 7-year tribulation.

Please provide a Biblical verse that says the Church is in heaven before the 7 year final week begins.

 

[The Light]

I posted Gen 7 for you to reread.
It has problems for you.

The problem is saw was your claim that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. Thats not what the word of God says. Thats what you have learned from others that have made that up.