Jesus is the Son of his God

[JLB]

His creed is the creed of Judaism.

Bro, do you understand that Judaism is a man made religion that rejects Jesus as Lord?


God gave the children of Israel the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant UNTIL the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

By saying “until” the Spirit is indicating the law of Moses was temporary.


Has the Seed come?

 

[HealthyShape]

As anyone who knows me would tell you, I’m not big on speculation.

From what you are doing with the Geneva Bible, I would say you are.

I know, as do trinitarian scholars, that there is also a Hebrew concept of logos.

It is the Hellenistic concept that sent the church away from the monotheism of John, the other apotsles, and Jesus.

Well, the first church existed in the Hellenistic culture and used the terms and concepts common in the Hellenistic culture - Logos, hádés, tartaros etc. That today's judaism purists do not accept it is irrelevant.

 

[HealthyShape]

You acknowledged that the God of Jesus is only one person, the Father. That is the creed of Judaism.

But we are in Christian forums, not in Judaism forums.

Can you acknowledge that the theology of people whose God is only one person, the Father, is unitarian?

Irrelevant. Christian God is three persons - The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. For the Son, His God is Father. But we, humans, are not part of the Trinity, so from our point of view, God is triune.

Only for trinitarian people.

These are called Christians.

 

[HealthyShape]

So Jesus is the Son of his God.

What do you say to the woman who says early in this thread (post #10) that that’s ”wrong and unbiblical”?

That she probably understood your statement in the context of your belief that Jesus is just a human.

We can quote John 1 again:

ho logos én pros ton theon (you end here) kai theos én ho logos (Christians continue to here).

You end in the middle of the sentence.

 

[Matthias]

Bro, do you understand that Judaism is a man made religion that rejects Jesus as Lord?

I was speaking about the creed of Judaism, not Judaism in general.

Jesus affirmed the creed of Judaism. You will have seen this in scripture (Mark 12:29-31).

God gave the children of Israel the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant UNTIL the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

By saying “until” the Spirit is indicating the law of Moses was temporary.


Has the Seed come?

The seed - Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of God - has come.

 

[Matthias]

From what you are doing with the Geneva Bible, I would say you are.

Then you will have to say that trinitarians scholars do as well. That would put me in good company. Most of what I know I’ve learned from trinitarian scholarship.

I used to tell my students before I retired that it was fine to say they didn’t know something, except on tests.

Well, the first church existed in the Hellenistic culture and used the terms and concepts common in the Hellenistic culture - Logos, hádés, tartaros etc. That today's judaism purists do not accept it is irrelevant.

That’s helpful. You don’t acknowledge that the first church existed in Hebraic culture. Ot existed in both cultures.

Would you say then that Jesus and the apostles - whom we were able to agree had the same form of monotheism - didn’t think Hebraically? That instead they thought Hellenistically?

 

[Matthias]

But we are in Christian forums, not in Judaism forums.

Jesus’ creed and those who affirm it aren’t welcome in Christian forums?

Irrelevant. Christian God is three persons - The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. For the Son, His God is Father. But we, humans, are not part of the Trinity, so from our point of view, God is triune.

Would you say that all non-trinitarians or only some non-trinitarians aren’t Christians?

These are called Christians.

Were there any Christians - by which I mean trinitarians only - living in Old Testament days?

 

[Matthias]

That she probably understood your statement in the context of your belief that Jesus is just a human.

I’ve repeatedly said that I believe Jesus is divine and not a “mere man”.

We can quote John 1 again:

ho logos én pros ton theon (you end here) kai theos én ho logos (Christians continue to here).

You end in the middle of the sentence.

I don’t end in the middle of the sentence.

 

[Matthias]

But we are in Christian forums, not in Judaism forums.

When I first registered here I registered as a “Christian” member, because that’s what I am. After a short while I proposed changing my registration from “Christian” to “Other Faith”. After quite a bit of public discussion with the staff, I requested that it be changed and it was.

Surely you‘re aware by now that “Christian” doesn’t mean “trinitarian only” on this forum. Even some of the staff members aren’t trinitarian and the rules don’t prohibit non-trinitarians from registering as “Christian” members. The Board policy explicitly states (unless it has been changed and I’m unaware of it) that non-trinitarian Christians are welcome at this forum. The only restriction placed on them is that they aren’t to discuss the Trinity. If they want to discuss the Trinity they can only do so by changing their registration from “Christian” to “Other Faith”.

You might be wondering if I changed my registration from “Christian“ to “Other Faith” - two years before the policy was implemented - for that reason. If you are, it wasn’t. If the matter never came up again that would be fine with me. I changed my registration to live peacefully, as much as it depends on me, here.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

I also do not believe that the Son of God is the origin of divinity. Where in the scriptures is this stated?

You need a strong argument for this, as Jesus never explained how or even if he had divinity like his Father. However, the Father's spirit did inhabit the Son's spirit, enabling him to have the qualities of his Father's divinity.

I genuinely am coming to the understanding that those who are here discussing the scriptures don't actually read the Bible. Nor are they Christian.

The agenda of those ones appears to be to slander and insult Christ,the Bible and Christians as they represent themselves to be one while promoting heresy and blasphemy.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

That she probably understood your statement in the context of your belief that Jesus is just a human.

We can quote John 1 again:

ho logos én pros ton theon (you end here) kai theos én ho logos (Christians continue to here).

You end in the middle of the sentence.

Exactly.

 

[Matthias]

These are called Christians.

I call them Christians.

I’m still learning you. Do you call Roman Catholics Christians? (I do. Historical orthodox trinitarianism wouldn’t exist without them.)

 

[JustMe]

I genuinely am coming to the understanding that those who are here discussing the scriptures don't actually read the Bible. Nor are they Christian.

The agenda of those ones appears to be to slander and insult Christ,the Bible and Christians as they represent themselves to be one while promoting heresy and blasphemy.

"You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper." Even a blind student can perceive Christ in spirit, yet you are unable to 'see' or experience him either with your eyes when confronted or in spirit. Are you aware if you carry the spirit of Christ within you?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

"You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper." Even a blind student can perceive Christ in spirit, yet you are unable to 'see' or experience him either with your eyes when confronted or in spirit. Are you aware if you carry the spirit of Christ within you?

I have no idea who you are talking to.

 

[Matthias]

OK, i am stepping out again to take my son trout fishing - talk with you later

Fishing is a popular activity where I live but I haven’t gone fishing since 1978. (I lost my favorite lure that day and never went back.) Did you catch anything worth bragging about?

 

[David in NJ]

Fishing is a popular activity where I live but I haven’t gone fishing since 1978. (I lost my favorite lure that day and never went back.) Did you catch anything worth bragging about?

Water was clear and low in the river which results in Trout that are not easily fooled.

We had a great time being in the outdoors as it was beautiful weather and scenery.

 

[David in NJ]

Fishing is a popular activity where I live but I haven’t gone fishing since 1978. (I lost my favorite lure that day and never went back.) Did you catch anything worth bragging about?

What was your favorite lure???

I don’t understand what you’re saying. All of the Hebrew Bible points to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah promised by the God of Israel.

GENESIS Declares that CHRIST pre-existed, NOT as a man but as ELOHIM.

SHALOM

 

[Matthias]

What was your favorite lure???

Irresistible to bass.

GENESIS Declares that CHRIST pre-existed, NOT as a man but as ELOHIM.

SHALOM

What I see as a Jewish monotheist is that Messiah preexisted as a man and as elohim.

 

[Matthias]

Also, it seems you do not understand the point of JLB. He does not want to say that there are multiple Gods, but that one God is plural in persons.

Since @JLB isn’t a trinitarian, how can that be?

I think what probably happened is that you read your trinitarianism into his non-trinitarian argument. Which, if true, means that you do not understand his point.

 

[Matthias]

"The term 'son' refers to one who is begotten or brought forth by something. This concept is similar to the principle of a son being born to his physical parents.

Jesus is rightly called the Son of God because He was begotten by the Word of God and by the Spirit of God.

To explain this with an easily understandable example: the Bible testifies that Timothy, the true son of Paul, became his son because he was begotten by Paul through the Word and the Spirit.

[1 Timothy]
1:2: To Timothy, my true son in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."

Thanks. Welcome to the forum.