Jesus is the Son of his God

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WalterandDebbie

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10-29-20-25​

What is the Origin of Lucifer and the Logos?


Where did the "Devil" come from? Where did he

get the name "Lucifer?" What does "Lucifer" mean?

And what about the Logos? What is His Origin? Who

Is He? What is His role in God’s Plan?

What is the true story of these ancient beings described

in the Scriptures? How did they become adversaries?

Here is one of the intriguing mysteries of the Universe

Revealed and explained!

William F. Dankenbring

First, let’s look at this being called “Lucifer” in the Bible.

The word "Lucifer" itself comes from the Latin, and there is no doubt that Jerome used this Latin word to translate the Hebrew word "Heylel." His work in translating the Latin Vulgate was largely based on the Septuagint, which was the version quoted often by Christ and the apostles, and later rejected by the Jews because the Christians were using it to great advantage in arguing that Christ was the Messiah. The original Septuagint (which we do not really have today, but rather a "reconstruction" undertaken by Origen) was an authoritative version begun in the days of Ptolemy Philadelphus circa 250 B.C.

The word "Heylel" in Hebrew means: "in the sense of brightness, the morning star" (Strong's Concordance). It is from the root "halal" which has several meanings: "clear, to shine, hence to make a show, to boast, and thus to be foolish, to rave, be mad, glory, shine, etc." The Gesenius Hebrew Lexicon has for "Heylel," "according to the LXX, Vulgate, Targum Rabbin (ancient Jewish source), Luther, stella lucida, bright star, i.e., Lucifer. Nor is this a bad rendering, for there is added [in the text of Isaiah] . . . and in the Chaldee also Lucifer (the morning star) . . . in Arab . . . 'a splendid star.' According to this opinion 'Heylel' would be derived from the root 'Halal,' 'to shine.'"

The Septuagint translates Isaiah 14:12 as follows: "How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! . . . But thou saidst in thine heart, I will go up to heaven, I will set my throne ABOVE the stars of heaven: I will sit upon a lofty mount, on the lofty mountains toward the north: I will go up above the clouds; I will be like the Most High. But now thou shalt go down to hell, even to the foundations of the earth" (Isa.14:12-15). The Tanakh uses the expression, "O Shining One, son of Dawn." Either way, Lucifer was a "shining one," and a 'star' that rises in the morning is a "day star" or a "morning star."

Are There Two "Day Stars"?

What is the significance of this fact, since Christ is also called a "day star" (II Pet.1:19) and speaks of Himself in Revelation 22:16, saying, "I Jesus . . . I am the . . . bright and morning star"?

Most scholars conclude that 'Heylel' comes from the root 'Halal' whose basic meaning is "to shine." However, "shining" can have both positive and negative aspects. To "shine" can mean "to boast," "self-glory," rave on, even so far as being "mad" and "foolish." Certainly, Lucifer became such in his inordinate ambition and pride, as both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 show. But the basic meaning of the word is "to shine," and it is connected in Isaiah with "son of the morning," meaning the "morning star." For "Lucifer," my KJV margin has an alternate reading of "day star." Again, the essential meaning is "brightness." And that appellation is correct. For in II Corinthians, Paul tells us of "Lucifer," that even today he appears as "an angel of light" (II Cor.11:14). Christ also verified his brightness, saying, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18).

"The Anointed Cherub that Covers"

Lucifer was created as a glorious, resplendent cherub, one of the highest ranking angelic beings surrounding God's Throne -- he was even appointed as the "anointed cherub that covers" the throne of God (Ezek.28:14), and was "perfect in [his] ways" until wickedness was discovered in him (verse 15). God said of him, that he "sealed up the sum, full of wisdom, perfect in beauty" (v.12), and "every precious stone was thy covering" (v.13). He was a "work of art." A "masterpiece." But, God declares, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of THY BRIGHTNESS . . ." (v.17).

For these reasons, I find no fault with Jerome's translation, or the term "Lucifer" as referring to Satan, on account of his "brightness." The name fits. The other meanings of the name "halal" also fit him, of course, since he allowed his "brightness" to go to his head: and he became foolish, raving, mad, etc.

What is intriguing, however, is that Christ Jesus also is referred to in Scripture as "the day star." In fact, in the Latin Vulgate, the Greek word phosphoros is translated in II Peter 1:19 in reference to Christ as "day star" -- but the very same word phosphoros is used in Isaiah 14:12 where it is translated "Lucifer"! Thus both Satan and Christ are described as phosphoros! Do they both, then, have as one of their names, "Lucifer"? Although both could be called "Lucifer," which is merely Latin for "Light-bringer," the word Lucifer has come to be applied to Satan, to make it clear which being is referred to. Let's understand this.

In II Peter 1:19 we read: "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, AS unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the DAY STAR arise in your hearts."

Christ is the true "light" (John 12:35-36, 46) of the world. Malachi the prophet says of Him, "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings" -- a reference to Christ (Malachi 4:2). The Psalmist declared of God, "For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory" (Psalm 84:11).

It is certainly interesting that both Lucifer, the "son of the morning" and whose name also means "day star," and Christ the Son of God , who is referred to as the "day star" in II Peter 1:19, both are called "day star." Obviously, BOTH had and have incredible "brightness." Both "shine." Both would have the same "root" in this sense. The Englishman's Greek Interlinear translates the Greek in II Peter 1:19 as "morning star" -- as a reference to Christ. Lucifer, too, was called "the son of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12), or "son of dawn." The Amplified Bible refers to him as, "How are you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and day-star, son of the morning!" (same verse).

Why are both Lucifer and Christ or the Logos spoken of as having the SAME TITLES -- in one sense, one could even say THE SAME NAME? Obviously "Lucifer" merely means "Light-bringer." That is one of Christ's names. Interestingly, the first thing that God created in Genesis 1 was "light" (Gen.1:3). Is it not possible that in the original, FIRST CREATION, that the first thing God the Father created was Light?-- that is, "beings of light" or "light bringers"?


 

MonoBiblical

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Please take a look at Post 379

Gospel = Logos = In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God
Gospel = Word = And the Word became flesh = Immanuel = God with us
Gospel = God is Elohim and is PLURAL of THREE as Declared by the LORD/YAHWEH to Moses = Genesis and Exodus
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lucifer = created Arch Angel that sinned and was renamed 'satan/adversary'
not so simple
[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
 

Matthias

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Even after all the twists and turns that have taken place in this thread, Jesus remains the Son of his God.
 

Matthias

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How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

1761766348023.jpeg

Explaining to a Muslim or a Jew how Jesus is the Son of his God using the “one gods” argument suggested in this thread by a trinitarian will end.
 

David in NJ

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not so simple
[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Or so simple that a child can understand = Deuteronomy "teach your children these things"

Jewish children are taught scripture from a very early age so that by the age of 12 they are Bar-Mitzvah as a adult to the Law.

SEE here: Luke 2:41-46
His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
And when JESUS was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it; but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
 

Matthias

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You don't as this is for mature audiences only = you share the GOSPEL = John ch3

Then you aren’t addressing the OP.

“One gods” has nothing whatsoever to do with the gospel of God preached by Jesus and the apostles.
 

David in NJ

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The Hebrew word Elohim (אֱלֹהִים) is grammatically plural, derived from the singular El (אֵל) or Eloah (אֱלוֹהַּ). It is the most frequently used term for God in the Hebrew Bible, appearing over 2,500 times. Despite its plural form, it is often used with singular verbs, adjectives, and pronouns when referring to the God of Israel—such as in Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning, God (Elohim) created (bara)”—where bara is a singular verb.

Elohim is also used in the plural sense when referring to multiple false gods (e.g., Exodus 20:3)

Now to the point:

Elohim does not inherently mean "three"—it simply means "gods" or, in a singular context, "God" in a plural form. The number three is not linguistically encoded in the word. In fact, the Hebrew language has specific words for "three" (שָׁלוֹשׁ, 'ׁslo-sh'), and Elohim is not etymologically related to that number.

So why do you illogically keep insisting that term Elohim means, as a plural number, only the number three (3) when scripture clearly opposes your conclusion?

Using Elohim to prove the Trinity is a misreading: since Elohim is the plural of "god," not "person," using it to suggest three persons in one God confuses categories. Elohim is the plural for (one person) GOD, NOT the plural for the term, PERSON. Therefore, to claim it proves a triune God risks implying three gods, not three persons in one God.

Belief at your own risk and keep on embarrassing yourself by saying Elohim = 3 (persons).
Why is did EL command His Name to be EL-o-him = PLURAL

we who Know Him have received the 2nd Promise of the FATHER

There will be many who will be "embarrased" = Matthew 25: 1-12


@Doug
 

David in NJ

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No trinitarian needs to believe your “one gods” teaching. I was asking if you think they all do any way.
Some trins do and many do not because they have not yet believed "every word that proceeded from the Mouth of God"

There is a NAME that raises people from their graves = count with me = LORD JESUS CHRIST
 

Matthias

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Some trins do and many do not because they have not yet believed "every word that proceeded from the Mouth of God"

Do you have an estimate of how many trinitarians ”have not yet believed ‘every word that proceeded from the Mouth of God’”?

I’m not looking for an exact figure. A ballpark percentage would be sufficient.

Percentage of trinitarians who believe your “one gods” teaching = ?

Percentage of trinitarians who do not believe your “one gods” teaching = ?
 

WalterandDebbie

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Do you have an estimate of how many trinitarians ”have not yet believed ‘every word that proceeded from the Mouth of God’”?

I’m not looking for an exact figure. A ballpark percentage would be sufficient.

Percentage of trinitarians who believe your “one gods” teaching = ?

Percentage of trinitarians who do not believe your “one gods” teaching = ?
 

WalterandDebbie

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Do you have an estimate of how many trinitarians ”have not yet believed ‘every word that proceeded from the Mouth of God’”?

I’m not looking for an exact figure. A ballpark percentage would be sufficient.

Percentage of trinitarians who believe your “one gods” teaching = ?

Percentage of trinitarians who do not believe your “one gods” teaching = ?

 

MonoBiblical

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Or so simple that a child can understand = Deuteronomy "teach your children these things"

Jewish children are taught scripture from a very early age so that by the age of 12 they are Bar-Mitzvah as a adult to the Law.

SEE here: Luke 2:41-46
His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
And when JESUS was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it; but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
A gospel was the kingdom of God is near. so really? The gospel is not singular though.
 

David in NJ

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A gospel was the kingdom of God is near. so really? The gospel is not singular though.
ONE GOSPEL for ALL Nations = GENESIS chapter 3 , Isaiah 49:5-6 , John chapters 1 thru 4 , Galatians & Ephesians

One SAVIOR/Gospel for ALL Nations
5“And now the Lord says,
Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,
To bring Jacob back to Him,
So that Israel is gathered to Him
(For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the Lord,
And My God shall be My strength),
6Indeed He says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,

And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;

I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My Salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

Galatians 3:8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed
with believing Abraham.