The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

[Taken]

- How do you see the final judgment playing out?

Final Judgement?

* Celestial spirits Ever living With or Without God.
- With…? holy faithful servants IN Gods presence.
- Without…? unholy unfaithful IN an eternal Lake of Fire, void of power to escape.

Final Judgement?

* Mankind - Some With, Some Without God Eternally.
- With…? soul restored, MADE “good again” called “Saved”. Keeps Gods Breath of Life eternally.
- With…? spirit (ie Truth in heart), MADE “quickened”, Reborn of Gods SEED, called “Born Again”. Keeps Gods SEED, Life eternally, By, Through, of Gods Power “with-IN” that man.
- With…? body Natural “Earthly” Flesh Life (BLOOD], MADE dead, MADE alive (with-OUT blood), and WITH a “spiritual” same likeness as a “ holy” Angel Celestial body, (“visible” to other Celestial bodies)

WithOUT…
* soul NOT MADE restored.
- Life of soul returns to God… soul lifeless.
* spirit NOT MADE to receive Gods SEED,
- Dies with body….spirit lifeless.
* body NOT MADE or Raised glorified…
- is already… ( no blood) lifeless.
* Lifeless, soul, spirit, body… Burned, Destroyed, Ash, Forgotten, Remembered no more.

* Gods Mercy and Justice unto mankind.
* No eternal life.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

- Will everyone be saved in the end?

No.

Salvation is Offered to All and Given To;
Repentant, Forgiven, Heartful Believers, Freely Willing , by Word and Act of Giving their Flesh (bodily Life) unto Death For their Belief IN God.

Gods Justice… Upon a mans bodily flesh Death…
Search every man’s heart ( ie natural truth / ie. natural spirit ), Respond Accordingly.
Save the Believer…
Separate the Non-Believer…

Gods Mercy… upon a mans bodily flesh Death…
* Saved WITH God… as they desired / chose.
* UN-Saved WITHOUT God… as they desired / chose.
Eternal LIFE for those who Chose God.
No Eternal LIFE for those who Rejected God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

YES….

WHY?
Because God Loved Them.

God IS LOVE.
God IS Always Righteous.

LOVE IS “doing” what is RIGHT, (Righteous), “regardless” of the Consequence.

The Consequence… Viewed positive or negative …
Does NOT mean To “Stop Loving”.

God allowing mankind TO Freely, willingly, choose to Believe in God, Love God, or Reject Him… Does NOT Dictate, Change or Supersede Gods OWN Righteousness to Love All of His Creations.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

- Damnationism ?
- Annihilationism ?
- Universalism ?

Damnation?
Damnation (from Latin damnatio) is the concept of divine punishment after ( mortal bodily )death for (unforgiven )sins that were committed.

Yes… A Temporarily judgement (of utter duress, chaos, discomfort) applies to and experienced by Unsaved Living Souls …

Damnation (per modern post Jesus’ presence on Earth) Philosophical View …
Whole of man, body, soul, spirit experiences Eternal suffering in Hell.
No.

Damnation (Scripturally)…Sentencing after Judgement…
Dead lifeless unforgiven body, Dead lifeless unsaved soul, Dead lifeless natural spirit Separated from God Eternally.
Yes.

Annihilation?
Complete destruction .
Yes.

Everything God Created, Never Becomes “uncreated”.
Gods “Creations”, CAN and DO, by Gods Power “CHANGE FORMS”.

Destruction of ONE FORM, reveals a Visual Different Form.

Mans BODY, Formed FROM “the Earths Dust”.
Body Dies, Returns TO Dust.
Dust risen in visible Bodily Form, Body visible.
Body Incinerated, Bodily Form Not visible, becomes visible as Ash, does not Return Again to Dust.
(Similarity … Earth IS Dry Land. Earth Destroyed, As Earth all Became WET Land, the Dry Land was Destroyed. Earth restored, Again MADE Dry Land. )

God is Creator “AND” Maker…
Gods Creations ARE Established / Complete.
Gods “MAKINGS” regarding His Creations….
“CONTINUES”.

Universalism?
Universalism is the belief that all human beings will ultimately be saved and reconciled to God, regardless of their faith or actions during their lifetime.
No.

A “a human being” IS a being Created (by the hand of God) from its habitat, Earth.
A “person” IS an Alive Human Body, (with its Life / blood), and With an internal Living soul.

A “person” Chooses or Rejects God, Before It’s Bodily Blood Death.

On Judgement Day…
Blood Life of a Dead Body “Does Not Return to the Body”!
The Body’s Living Soul saved or Unsaved returns to the Body.
Thus “All” Body's raise up by the Power/ Life of the Soul (Gods Breath).

All souls Shall SEE the Judge, Believe, bow (ie Worship) the Judge Lord God, fulfilling Prophecy.
The Body’s (Life/ blood), is already Dead.
The soul’s (Life/ Gods Breath) …
* Unsaved soul? The Life Returns to God.
* Saved soul? The Life Remains in that soul.
Lifeless Dead Bodys? Destroyed by fire in hell. Forgotten… not restored.
Lifeless Dead Souls? Destroyed by fire in hell.
Forgotten… not restored.

Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

“All” “saved”? No.
^ That “presumes” a Living ( blood life human) has no FREEWILL to choose what “he wills” and is “instead” Forced to Choose God.

Scripture clearly reveals Human Living (blood life living body’s of manKIND) have the Liberty and Power and limited (while Alive) to Choose or Reject God.

Josh 24:
[15a] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

1 Thes. 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Dead (bloodless, lifeless manKind) body’s Can not Make Choices…

Ecc 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I agree. But this is a doctrinal question.

Romans 3:22-24 NIV
This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe.
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through
the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Who is the all?

All of humankind.

St. SteVen said:
All are sinners, all fall short. (even Job)

At certain times, but his friends were much worse.

Does God grade on a curve, or PASS/FAIL?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

YES….

WHY?
Because God Loved Them.

Sorry... love does not incinerate the other.
Does God hold Himself to a lower standard than He holds us to?

1 Corinthians 13:4-8a NIV
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy,
it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.

 

[St. SteVen]

Universalism?
Universalism is the belief that all human beings will ultimately be saved and reconciled to God, regardless of their faith or actions during their lifetime.
No.

I suppose this follows the same course as your incineration is love post. ???

Do you really believe that we are saved by "faith or actions during [our] lifetime"?

Wouldn't you applaud any effort to bring the lost into reconciliation?
Especially if it involved accountability? Evaluation, correction, reconciled relationships, restoration and redemption.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
- Will everyone be saved in the end?

No.

Salvation is Offered to All and Given To;
Repentant, Forgiven, Heartful Believers, Freely Willing , by Word and Act of Giving their Flesh (bodily Life) unto Death For their Belief IN God.

Offered to all?
Are you familiar with the term "unreached people groups"?

Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no opportunity to choose.

 

[St. SteVen]

Damnation?
Damnation (from Latin damnatio) is the concept of divine punishment after ( mortal bodily )death for (unforgiven )sins that were committed.

Yes… A Temporarily judgement (of utter duress, chaos, discomfort) applies to and experienced by Unsaved Living Souls …

Damnation (per modern post Jesus’ presence on Earth) Philosophical View …
Whole of man, body, soul, spirit experiences Eternal suffering in Hell.
No.

Damnation (Scripturally)…Sentencing after Judgement…
Dead lifeless unforgiven body, Dead lifeless unsaved soul, Dead lifeless natural spirit Separated from God Eternally.
Yes.

Annihilation?
Complete destruction .
Yes.

Everything God Created, Never Becomes “uncreated”.
Gods “Creations”, CAN and DO, by Gods Power “CHANGE FORMS”.

Destruction of ONE FORM, reveals a Visual Different Form.

Mans BODY, Formed FROM “the Earths Dust”.
Body Dies, Returns TO Dust.
Dust risen in visible Bodily Form, Body visible.
Body Incinerated, Bodily Form Not visible, becomes visible as Ash, does not Return Again to Dust.
(Similarity … Earth IS Dry Land. Earth Destroyed, As Earth all Became WET Land, the Dry Land was Destroyed. Earth restored, Again MADE Dry Land. )

God is Creator “AND” Maker…
Gods Creations ARE Established / Complete.
Gods “MAKINGS” regarding His Creations….
“CONTINUES”.

Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory.
Which one is false? (assuming contradictions are not allowed)

 

[Taken]

St. SteVen said:
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

Sorry... love does not incinerate the other.

Why not?

Incinerate meaning… to destroy by fire.

Fire … the Means…(catalyst) can Purify or Destroy.

ManKIND can choose…
Be MADE Destroyed by fire.
Be MADE Purified by fire.

Does God hold Himself to a lower standard than He holds us to?

Not at all.
God Freely CHOOSES.
ManKIND Freely CHOOSES.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8a NIV
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy,
it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.

Yes.
Righteous, Just.
Every man WILL receive what he Chooses.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

St. SteVen said:
- Will everyone be saved in the end?

Offered to all?
Are you familiar with the term "unreached people groups"?

Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no opportunity to choose.

“…with no opportunity to choose”…

How so do you mean?

 

[Taken]

I suppose this follows the same course as your incineration is love post. ???

Incineration of a lifeless body and lifeless soul…Is Just.

Do you really believe that we are saved by "faith or actions during [our] lifetime"?

Saved BY “Faith”.
Rewarded FOR “Works”.

Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee;
go in peace.

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Heb 6:
10] For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Wouldn't you applaud any effort to bring the lost into reconciliation?

Sure.
And God rewards Men For their Works.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MonoBiblical]

All of humankind.

That is much too simplistic.

Does God grade on a curve, or PASS/FAIL?

Does punish by merit? Some sins are worse than others. Don't kid yourself with James.

 

[Taken]

Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory.
Which one is false? (assuming contradictions are not allowed)

Damnation is a temporary consequence for Rejecting God.

Annihilation, Destruction (with OUT a restoration option) is a Final elimination of a being that Freely Rejected choosing to have a relationship with God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no opportunity to choose.

“…with no opportunity to choose”…

How so do you mean?

Everyone who has gone to the afterlife since Jesus harrowed hell. (the realm of the dead)
That has not heard the gospel in order to respond. And there are still unreached people groups today.
I don't see any way to support that claim that EVERYONE has had the opportunity to choose Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

Wouldn't you applaud any effort to bring the lost into reconciliation?

Sure.
And God rewards Men For their Works.

That would be Universalism.
An opportunity for those who never had one to be reconciled to God and rewarded for their good works. (if any)

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
All of humankind.

That is much too simplistic.

Who would you want to not be included?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory.

Damnation is a temporary consequence for Rejecting God.

Annihilation, Destruction (with OUT a restoration option) is a Final elimination of a being that Freely Rejected choosing to have a relationship with God.

That's a pretty good reply, but Damnationism claims that the torment will last forever.
So, it really is contradictory with Annihilationism.

A word of caution: Annihilationism is the gateway drug to full-blown Universalism. - LOL

 

[Taken]

Everyone who has gone to the afterlife since Jesus harrowed hell. (the realm of the dead)
That has not heard the gospel in order to respond. And there are still unreached people groups today.
I don't see any way to support that claim that EVERYONE has had the opportunity to choose Jesus.

Not to overlook or dismiss … WHOSE Say is the Final say…

WHO? The ALL Knowing Lord God ALL- Mighty.

WHAT does He KNOW? All things.

WHAT / HOW does He Verify a Mans Belief?

Check the mans Brain/ Carnal Mind? No.
Check the mans “natural spirit” Yes.

WHAT is a mans natural spirit? A mans truth.
WHERE is a mans natural spirit? In a mans Heart.
WHEN does God check / verify a mans Truth?
AFTER the mans Body Dies.
Does God have to “Wait” until the man has HEARD Gods TRUTH”, For God to KNOW IF that man , would Have Chosen to Believe In God”? No.
Why Not? Because God IS ALL- Knowing.

A naturally born infant, baby, toddler, adult… alive, Never having HEARD or MADE a confession of Belief… but experiences bodily Death…”Too bad”?… No.

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

That would be Universalism.
An opportunity for those who never had one to be reconciled to God and rewarded for their good works. (if any)

No.
Universalism is All WILL be Saved.

Scripture does Not teach that.

Glory to God,
Taken