All things written may be fulfilled

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davidpt

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2023
2,512
797
113
68
East Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Congratulations on agreeing with Premils in how to interpret Zechariah 14. Way to go, buddy.

Except he doesn't fully agree with Premils since he does not apply verses 16-21 like Premils apply it. But even so, he still has way better reading comprehension than you do in this case. And that he is way better at putting 2 and 2 together than you are in this case. As a matter of fact, until he submitted post # 120, it never crossed my mind that Zechariah 14:5 is also echoed in 1 Thessalonians 3:13. From now on, not only will I be using Jude 1:7 as an argument, I will also be using 1 Thessalonians 3:13 as an argument.

1 Thessalonians 3:13
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The following undeniably is a match

1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ = and the Lord my God shall come = the Lord my God is the Lord Jesus Christ

2) with all his saints = and all the saints with thee

Which then undeniably means that JWs are incorrect to argue that Scripture nowhere ever says Jesus is God. Sure they do. Except interpreters, such as you, want to obscure that fact, in this case, rather than bring it to light. Granted, you already believe Jesus is God. But that is beside the point, since JWs don't equally believe Jesus is God. And that JWs argue Scripture never says Jesus is God. Except they clearly do if one is correctly interpreting Scripture with Scripture, which you are clearly not doing in this case.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Zechariah 14 takes place in Jerusalem.

The feast of tabernacles (Sukkot) is a annual memorial event which the Jews for 7 days simulate the 40 days that they were in the wilderness during their exodus from Egypt. tabernacles (Sukkot) for that event is a name for temporary small booth-like shelters that the Jews lived in - in their journey to the promised land.

What the memorial shelters are made of - you can look up on the internet.
Animal sacrifices and sin offerings were required during the feast of tabernacles. Why would that be required in the future when Jesus made animal sacrifices and offerings obsolete long ago when He established the new covenant with His blood?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Except he doesn't fully agree with Premils since he does not apply verses 16-21 like Premils apply it.
How do you know how he applies that? I'm trying to get him to tell me how he interprets it and all he does is comment on verses 1 to 12. He knows he has no way of reconciling verses 16 to 21 with Amil, especially if he takes it literally like he does the rest of the chapter, but he just ignores that.

But even so, he still has way better reading comprehension than you do in this case.
LOL. You are a comedian. Almost everything you say is a joke.

And that he is way better at putting 2 and 2 together than you are in this case.
You're all talk, David. Unless you or him can tell me how Zechariah 14:16-21 can be applied to the future, I have no reason to take you seriously. Neither of you even attempt to explain how that can be done.

As a matter of fact, until he submitted post # 120, it never crossed my mind that Zechariah 14:5 is also echoed in 1 Thessalonians 3:13. From now on, not only will I be using Jude 1:7 as an argument, I will also be using 1 Thessalonians 3:13 as an argument.
What good does that do when this requires you to place Zechariah 14:16-21 in the future? You have no explanation for how Zechariah 14:16-21 can apply to anything that happens after Christ returns.

1 Thessalonians 3:13
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The following undeniably is a match

1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ = and the Lord my God shall come = the Lord my God is the Lord Jesus Christ

2) with all his saints = and all the saints with thee
If that's undeniably a match, then just tell me how we can match Zechariah 14:16-21 with events that happen after Jesus returns.

Which then undeniably means that JWs are incorrect to argue that Scripture nowhere ever says Jesus is God. Sure they do. Except interpreters, such as you, want to obscure that fact, in this case, rather than bring it to light.
You are acting like a fool here. I have debated JWs many times and shown them where scripture says Jesus is God. Yet, here you are saying this nonsense to me? You are not someone that I can take seriously.

Granted, you already believe Jesus is God. But that is beside the point, since JWs don't equally believe Jesus is God. And that JWs argue Scripture never says Jesus is God. Except they clearly do if one is correctly interpreting Scripture with Scripture, which you are clearly not doing in this case.
There are many scriptures which teach that Jesus is God and I'm not saying otherwise, so why in the world are you even going there? Grow up and get serious.
 
Last edited:

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
5,490
439
83
77
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Animal sacrifices and sin offerings were required during the feast of tabernacles. Why would that be required in the future when Jesus made animal sacrifices and offerings obsolete long ago when He established the new covenant with His blood?
Text references ?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Text references ?
One is Numbers 19:13-38. Here's part of it..

Numbers 19:13 ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days. 13 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: thirteen young bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year. They shall be without blemish. 14 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each of the thirteen bulls, two-tenths for each of the two rams, 15 and one-tenth for each of the fourteen lambs; 16 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.
17 ‘On the second day present twelve young bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 18 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 19 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings....

Then there's this...

Leviticus 23:33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I asked you about verses 16-21. How do you make those verses fit with Amil? Zechariah 14:16-21 is about the same time period as the verses you quoted here.
You were clearly answered in post #133
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Weak response.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

If only the righteous are left at this point, then why does this talk about people being punished for not keeping the feast of tabernacles? The righteous would not disobey God like that. And why would anyone even need to keep the feast of tabernacles at that point? That would require animal sacrifices and sin offerings, which were made obsolete by the blood sacrifice of Christ long ago.
Your in rebellion to the fact that (The Day Of The Lord) has taken place in Zechariah 14:1-12, verse 12 shows men's flesh, tongues, eyes, being consumed as they stand on their feet by the Lord's last day fire in final judgment Luke 17:29-30 "Destroyed Them All"

You deny that the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem

You deny the fact Jesus has returned to the Mt of Olives

You deny the fact that Jesus has returned with all the saints

The very simple truth before your eyes in denial by the stubborn rebellious pride of man

The Lord's Second Coming (The Day Of The Lord)

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 
Last edited:

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You were clearly answered in post #133
No, I was not. You did NOTHING to explain why anyone would be punished at that point, as described in Zechariah 14:16-21. The fact that it talks about punishment shows that more than just the righteous would have to be alive during whatever time period that represents. That passage does NOT describe the perfect conditions of the new heavens and new earth.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Your in rebellion to the fact that (The Day Of The Lord) has taken place in Zechariah 14:1-12, verse 12 shows men's flesh, tongues, eyes, being consumed as they stand on their feet by the Lord's last day fire in final judgment Luke 17:29-30 "Destroyed Them All"

You deny that the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem
LOL. I love how you consider your weak opinions to be facts. If you want me to take you seriously about this, then you will need to give a convincing explanation for how you reconcile your understanding of Zechariah 14:16-21 with your understanding of verses 1-12. So far, you have failed to do so. Just like how Premils fail to show how that passage can possibly refer to a future time.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Weak response.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

If only the righteous are left at this point, then why does this talk about people being punished for not keeping the feast of tabernacles? The righteous would not disobey God like that. And why would anyone even need to keep the feast of tabernacles at that point? That would require animal sacrifices and sin offerings, which were made obsolete by the blood sacrifice of Christ long ago.
Not one place in Zechariah Chapter 14 does it state "Blood Animal Sacrifice"

The feast of tabernacles is presently celebrated by Judaism with items of plant matter surrounding agricultural and the harvest (Myrtle) (Palm Frond) (Willow Branch) (Citron/Lemon)

Wikipedia: Sukkot,[a] also known as the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths, is a Torah-commanded Jewish holiday celebrated for seven days, beginning on the 15th day of the month of Tishrei. It is one of the Three Pilgrimage Festivals on which Israelites were commanded to make a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem. Biblically an autumn harvest festival and a commemoration of the Exodus from Egypt, Sukkot's modern observance is characterized by festive meals in a sukkah, a temporary wood-covered hut, and the taking of the four species.

Sukkot

A sukkah (plural: sukkot) in a kibbutz in Gush Etzion
Sukkot's 4 Holy Species from left to right: Hadass (myrtle), Lulav (palm frond), Aravah (willow branch), Etrog (citron) carrier, Etrog (citron) outside its carrier
The names used in the Torah are "Festival of Ingathering" (or "Harvest Festival", Hebrew: חַג הָאָסִיף, romanized: ḥag hāʾāsif)[3] and "Festival of Booths" (Hebrew: חג הסכות, romanized: Ḥag hasSukkōṯ).[4][3] This corresponds to the double significance of Sukkot. The one mentioned in the Book of Exodus is agricultural in nature—"Festival of Ingathering at the year's end" (Exodus 34:22)—and marks the end of the harvest time and thus of the agricultural year in the Land of Israel. The more elaborate religious significance from the Book of Leviticus is that of commemorating the Exodus and the dependence of the Israelites on the will of God (Leviticus 23:42–43).

In the Torah's description of the holiday, the idea of welcoming all guests and extending hospitality is intrinsic to the celebration. Actual and symbolic "guests" (Aramaic: ushpizin) are invited to participate by visiting the sukkah. Specifically, according to the Zohar, seven "forefathers" of the Jewish people are to be welcomed during the seven days of the festival, in this order: Day 1: Abraham; Day 2: Isaac; Day 3: Jacob; Day 4: Moses; Day 5: Aaron; Day 6: Joseph; Day 7: David.[5]

The holiday lasts seven days. The first day (and second day in the diaspora) is a Shabbat-like holiday when work is forbidden. This is followed by intermediate days called Chol HaMoed, during which certain work is permitted. The festival is closed with another Shabbat-like holiday called Shemini Atzeret (one day in the Land of Israel, two days in the diaspora, where the second day is called Simchat Torah).

The Hebrew word sukkoṯ is the plural of sukkah ('booth' or 'tabernacle') which is a walled structure covered with s'chach (plant material, such as overgrowth or palm leaves). A sukkah is the name of the temporary dwelling in which farmers would live during harvesting, reinforcing agricultural significance of the holiday introduced in the Book of Exodus. As stated in Leviticus, it is also reminiscent of the type of fragile dwellings in which the Israelites dwelled during their 40 years of travel in the desert after the Exodus from slavery in Egypt. Throughout the holiday, meals are eaten inside the sukkah and many people sleep there as well.

On each day of the holiday it is a mitzvah, or commandment, to 'dwell' in the sukkah and to perform a shaking ceremony with a lulav (a palm frond, then bound with myrtle and willow), and an etrog (the fruit of a citron tree) (collectively known as the four species). The fragile shelter, the 'now-three-item' lulav, the etrog, the revived Simchat Beit HaShoeivah celebration's focus on water and rainfall and the holiday's harvest festival roots draw attention to people's dependence on the natural environment.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
No, I was not. You did NOTHING to explain why anyone would be punished at that point, as described in Zechariah 14:16-21. The fact that it talks about punishment shows that more than just the righteous would have to be alive during whatever time period that represents. That passage does NOT describe the perfect conditions of the new heavens and new earth.

How Long Will You Loathe In Your Stubborn, Rebellious, Denial?​

Matthew 23:24KJV​

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.​


A "Warning" is seen "IF" no punishment as you falsely claim​

Zechariah 14:18KJV​

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​


You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And
the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:
but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
Last edited:

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Not one place in Zechariah Chapter 14 does it state "Blood Animal Sacrifice"
You are very naive. The feast of tabernacles involves blood animal sacrifices. That is a FACT.

The feast of tabernacles is presently celebrated by Judaism with items of plant matter surrounding agricultural and the harvest (Myrtle) (Palm Frond) (Willow Branch) (Citron/Lemon)

Wikipedia: Sukkot,[a] also known as the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths, is a Torah-commanded Jewish holiday celebrated for seven days, beginning on the 15th day of the month of Tishrei. It is one of the Three Pilgrimage Festivals on which Israelites were commanded to make a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem. Biblically an autumn harvest festival and a commemoration of the Exodus from Egypt, Sukkot's modern observance is characterized by festive meals in a sukkah, a temporary wood-covered hut, and the taking of the four species.

Sukkot

A sukkah (plural: sukkot) in a kibbutz in Gush Etzion
Sukkot's 4 Holy Species from left to right: Hadass (myrtle), Lulav (palm frond), Aravah (willow branch), Etrog (citron) carrier, Etrog (citron) outside its carrier
The names used in the Torah are "Festival of Ingathering" (or "Harvest Festival", Hebrew: חַג הָאָסִיף, romanized: ḥag hāʾāsif)[3] and "Festival of Booths" (Hebrew: חג הסכות, romanized: Ḥag hasSukkōṯ).[4][3] This corresponds to the double significance of Sukkot. The one mentioned in the Book of Exodus is agricultural in nature—"Festival of Ingathering at the year's end" (Exodus 34:22)—and marks the end of the harvest time and thus of the agricultural year in the Land of Israel. The more elaborate religious significance from the Book of Leviticus is that of commemorating the Exodus and the dependence of the Israelites on the will of God (Leviticus 23:42–43).
You need to get your information from scripture, not Wikipedia and the false religion of Judaism. In scripture the feast of tabernacles involved animal sacrifices and sin offerings.

Numbers 29:13 ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days. 13 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: thirteen young bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year. They shall be without blemish. 14 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each of the thirteen bulls, two-tenths for each of the two rams, 15 and one-tenth for each of the fourteen lambs; 16 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.
17 ‘On the second day present twelve young bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 18 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 19 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings. 20 ‘On the third day present eleven bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 21 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering. 23 On the fourth day........

Leviticus 23:33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You are very naive. The feast of tabernacles involves blood animal sacrifices. That is a FACT.


You need to get your information from scripture, not Wikipedia and the false religion of Judaism. In scripture the feast of tabernacles involved animal sacrifices and sin offerings.

Numbers 29:13 ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days. 13 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: thirteen young bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year. They shall be without blemish. 14 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each of the thirteen bulls, two-tenths for each of the two rams, 15 and one-tenth for each of the fourteen lambs; 16 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.
17 ‘On the second day present twelve young bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 18 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 19 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings. 20 ‘On the third day present eleven bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 21 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering. 23 On the fourth day........

Leviticus 23:33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.
Not one place is animal sacrifice mentioned in Zechariah Chapter 14, you add your self will and opinion

The feast of tabernacles was to commemorate the Jews wandering in the wilderness, blood sacrifice was seen prior to the cross of Calvary, not one place in Zechariah 14 does it state "Animal Blood Sacrifice For Sin" you have added something not seen, the future keeping of this time as instructed will be without animal blood sacrifice for sin

Your opinion claims the feast will be kept to the old covenant, my opinion claims it will be kept to the new covenant with no animal sacrifice used or needed
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
What is the reason you are ignoring my request to show how you reconcile Zechariah 14:16-21 with Amil? Does your Bible stop at verse 12 in Zechariah 14?
1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 
Last edited:

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Animal sacrifices and sin offerings were required during the feast of tabernacles. Why would that be required in the future when Jesus made animal sacrifices and offerings obsolete long ago when He established the new covenant with His blood?
Nothing in Zechariah Chapter 14 states animal blood sacrifice for sin, it's your imagination and opinion that has returned to the old covenant, through stubborn, rebellious denial
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Not one place is animal sacrifice mentioned in Zechariah Chapter 14, you add your self will and opinion
You are denying obvious truth here, which is sad. Keeping the feast of tabernacles involves performing animal sacrifices, as I proved with scripture, and Zechariah 14:16-21 talks about the requirement to keep the feast of tabernacles. Verses 20 and 21 refer to pots and sacrifices being cooked in them. So, it does refer to animal sacrifices whether you acknowledge it or not.

The feast of tabernacles was to commemorate the Jews wandering in the wilderness, blood sacrifice was seen prior to the cross of Calvary, not one place in Zechariah 14 does it state "Animal Blood Sacrifice For Sin" you have added something not seen, the future keeping of this time as instructed will be without animal blood sacrifice for sin
You are trying to change the requirements of the feast of tabernacles to fit your interpretation. Why are you being so dishonest with the text? If you think there's a spiritual application of the text, that would be one thing, but I know you take it all literally just like the rest of Zechariah 14. Taken literally, keeping the feast of tabernacles involves animal sacrifices. That is a fact that I proved using scripture. Instead of using scripture, you are referencing Wikipedia and the false religion of Judaism as your sources of information.

Your opinion claims the feast will be kept to the old covenant, my opinion claims it will be kept to the new covenant with no animal sacrifice used or needed
There is no new covenant feast of tabernacles! You are now resorting to making things up.
 
Last edited:

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Nothing in Zechariah Chapter 14 states animal blood sacrifice for sin, it's your imagination and opinion that has returned to the old covenant, through stubborn, rebellious denial
Your are being completely dishonest about all this. I showed you that keeping the feast of tabernacles involves animal sacrifices. That is a fact. You are trying to invent an imaginary new covenant way of keeping an the imaginary new covenant feast of tabernacles.

You also have said nothing about why anyone would be punished if only the righteous are around during the time represented by Zechariah 14:16-21. You have no explanation for that.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Hello? Are you not reading anything I'm saying? I've already been explaining to you why I don't see Zechariah 14 as being about the second coming of Christ. You only quote up to verse 12. Why is that? It has to be because you know you can't reconcile the rest of Zechariah 14 with your futurist view. So, you cherry pick the first 12 verses instead.

How can Jesus come and stand on the Mount of Olives after burning up the earth when He comes? You believe that He will completely burn up and annihilate the earth when He comes. You've made that clear. So, how can He then stand on the Mount of Olives at that point? You're not even thinking here.
 
Last edited:

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
12,819
4,033
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Taken literally, keeping the feast of tabernacles involves animal sacrifices. That is a fact that I proved using scripture. Instead of using scripture, you are referencing Wikipedia and the false religion of Judaism as your sources of information.
The text of Zechariah Chapter 14 states no such thing as (Animal Blood Sacrifice For Sin) you "Add" to scripture something not seen

The Feast will be held without animal blood sacrifice for sin, it will be held in the presence of the eternal Lamb Of God
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,902
6,856
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
The text of Zechariah Chapter 14 states no such thing as (Animal Blood Sacrifice For Sin) you "Add" to scripture something not seen
To claim that requires you to deny what keeping the feast of tabernacles entails, which includes animal sacrifices. You have to make up some imaginary new covenant feast of tabernacles that don't require animal sacrifices to keep your interpretation of Zechariah 14 afloat.

The Feast will be held without animal blood sacrifice for sin, it will be held in the presence of the eternal Lamb Of God
Nonsense. You are just making that up because you have no other way to reconcile Zechariah 14:16-21 with your understanding of Zechariah 14:1-12.

And, what is your explanation for Zechariah 14:16-21 talking about people being punished for not going up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles? Why would that happen when, as an Amil, you believe that is talking about the new heavens and new earth? People being punished for disobeying God on the new earth? That's ridiculous.