Once Saved, Always Saved?

[PinSeeker]

His enemies are the ones who don't accept ALL the Lord teaches in His Word and instead choose to only believe the happy verse while ignoring the warnings God has place din His Word that specifically tell us Christians can in fact lose their salvation.

These people are the modern day version of the pharisees and sadducees who twist God's Word, add to, and take away from God's word in their ongoing efforts to deceive others which is what their father the devil is leading them to do. The OSAS people are the tares Jesus warned us about, the children of satan sent by the devil to attempt to deceived the true children of God in to walking in heresy departing from the Living God.




Funny how those that follow OSAS go around proudly proclaiming they are sinners.

And it's funny how the so called "christians" we see today going around using foul language, smoking weed, getting drunk, being gay, having sex outside of marriage, etc etc are always the ones claiming OSAS doctrine is what they believe and follow.

Of course it is, because they have been taught that "it's not possible to lose salvation" and so they believe they can continue living in sin because the false OSAS teachers teach that it matters not whether they live in sin or not and if they do they falsely claim "it's not possible to lose salvation"




Another false claim. The OSAS people are teaching doctrine that comes from a false "jesus" as they teach a "different gospel" than what the Lord teaches so they are exactly backwards which is another way we know the OSAS people of being led by devils because satan always does things opposite of the Lord since he and his tares are in opposition to the Lord.




The OSAS people are ignorant of what God's Word teaches so they are not only imagining living like that, they are actually living like that




Eternal security only applies to those who abide in Christ that endure to the end.

OSAS people claim Christians don't have to abide in Christ and they are free to reject the leading of the Holy Spirit and are free to live in rebellion towards the Lord and still be saved

OSAS people are like their boy Martin Luther who rejects the Book of James which very clearly tells us that faith without corresponding action is dead, is not faith that brings salvation

All the OSAS people have is wishful thinking, not salvation




Jesus teaches God's Word (the ‘incorruptible seed’) can in fact be choked out of a person's life in Mark 4 causing them to become unfruitful.

Of course the OSAS people claim Jesus was LYING in Mark chapter 4 View attachment 77956

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

Jesus said God’s Kingdom works on the seedtime and harvest principle

Mark 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;




But the OSAS people claim a person is still saved even if they live in sin.

They deceive many with their fake gospel




They cannot defend their false doctrine from scripture so they have to come at you some other way




Those ignoring God's warnings to Christians He has placed in His Word will regret it.

They are literally claiming somethings God says in His Word are lies!




The OSAS people have been deceived and cannot know foundation of the real Gospel because their minds have been blinded to follow the fake "security in sin" gospel the devil deceived them with.




Well, the cut it out and REPENT!

There are a few ~ a few ~ good things in here, but for the most part:

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Rich R]

I'm trackin' right with ya here, Rich, but it might be a good idea to briefly and succinctly explain to Wrangler what you mean by "complete inability," because that can be understood in two starkly different ways. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

Well, if Wrangler can't define "incorruptible" or "eternal," I don't see how he could ever understand the meaning of, "complete inability."

I think he just wants to be contrarian.

 

[PinSeeker]

Well, if Wrangler can't define "incorruptible" or "eternal," I don't see how he could ever understand the meaning of, "complete inability."

Maybe, but I have confidence you could explain to him in terms that a four-year-old could understand... <smile> ...and probably should. <smile>

I think he just wants to be contrarian.

That may very well be. I still think it's... something else <chuckles> ...with him, though. <smile>

Grace and peace!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There are a few ~ a few ~ good things in here, but for the most part:

Well you certainly wouldn't want to let what God teaches in His Word to get in the way of what you believe

 

[Wrangler]

Curious What your Standing is For.

1 John 5:3
Loving God means keeping his commandments​

Hebrews 10:26
if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Isn’t it obvious? God did not send his son to brutally die on a cross so people could sin with impunity. Hebrews 10:26 exactly refuted OSAS.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure I do.

Great. Then we’re in agreement.

 

[Wrangler]

OK. I'll go first. I define, "IF you follow Gods commands you will be saved.” as man's idea, not God's.

No. Hebrews 10:26

how do you define "incorruptible" and "eternal?"

I don’t define words; they are already defined. Consult your favorite lexicon. In application consider.

Do you grasp the difference between a seed and the fruit is may or may not bear? It's obvious what Jesus was referring to when he spoke about branches that bear no fruit will be burned in the fire. You are choosing to be willfully ignorant.

 

[JustMe]

Scripture affirms that faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of salvation, not obedience to God’s commands as a means to earn it. Ephesians 2:8–9 clearly states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

However, obedience to God’s commands is a necessary response to salvation, not a prerequisite. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15), indicating that genuine faith produces obedience. The apostle James emphasizes this connection: “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:17).

The Bible also warns that no one can perfectly keep the law, and thus salvation cannot be earned by law-keeping (Romans 3:23; Galatians 3:10). The rich young ruler believed he kept the commandments, but Jesus challenged him to sell all he had and follow Him—revealing that true obedience involves complete surrender (Matthew 19:21).

Thus, while obedience is not the cause of salvation, it is a reliable sign of a living faith. As Revelation 22:14 says, “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city through the gates.” True salvation results in a transformed life that reflects love for God and neighbor.

If one is truly being saved, they will know it, despite the ups, the highs and downs, the lows and disappointments in life. All truly saved endure past the finish line of this mortal life.

 

[Taken]

1 John 5:3
Loving God means keeping his commandments​

Hebrews 10:26
if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Isn’t it obvious?

“It” Obvious ?

No, not at All.

“IT” was direct questions to YOU about “YOUR Standing”…

You are the “source” of “your own” (apparently), secretive Standing…
As am I and everyone else.

God did not send his son to brutally die on a cross so people could sin with impunity. Hebrews 10:26 exactly refuted OSAS.

I did not ask you your Opinion regarding Gods Acts.

Post # 2706
Page # 136

Repeat:

Curious-

ARE you Saved?

IF Yes, Why?

IF Yes, How many times?

IF Yes, Can you become UN-Saved?

IF Yes, How?

Thanks.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

It” Obvious ?

Yes. I’ve answered your non-personal questions already and will not divert to your irrelevant personal questions

 

[amigo de christo]

1 John 5:3​

Loving God means keeping his commandments​

Hebrews 10:26
if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Isn’t it obvious? God did not send his son to brutally die on a cross so people could sin with impunity. Hebrews 10:26 exactly refuted OSAS.

just dont forget to let ecumeincal interfaith interreligious dialgoue know this . They flat out DENY one has to even
BELEIVE in JESUS to be saved .
So either we beleive JESUS or a lie . But as you know IT CANT BE BOTH . Just a friendly reminder .

 

[PinSeeker]

Well you certainly wouldn't want to let what God teaches in His Word to get in the way of what you believe View attachment 77974

No, I wouldn't want to let what I think get in the way of God's Word, except to be in harmony with it. Which is the case with all of us, with regard to intent, certainly. But here in this conversation, that's only actually true of... some of us. <smile>

Great. Then we’re in agreement.

On some things, in a certain sense, yes, but certainly not in the coverall blanket way you want to make it out to be. <smile> So, in the sense of total agreement...

Grace and peace to you both.

 

[Taken]

Yes. I’ve answered your non-personal questions already and will not divert to your irrelevant personal questions

No problem.

Standing For or Standing Against, is your prerogative to keep Secret from other men…

It is Not Secret to God.
His Teaching IS clear, IF an individual is Not With Him…
(by default) They ARE Against Him.
Matt 12:30
Luke 11:23

Your “visible fruits” reveal you are Against Gods Salvation Works IN a man being permanent.

A man who HAS Salvation should be assuredly Content…
Heb 13:
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

Standing For or Standing Against, is your prerogative to keep Secret from other men

Asking me questions I already answered is NOT the same as keeping it secret! This will be my last post in this thread and it reminds me to stay out of such threads where people embrace doctrine as their IDOL.

You hyper-grace folks ignore justice. There is a difference between:

1. one who clings tightly and abides in Christ, doing the commands of God
2. from one who pays lip service to all these things but acts sinfully and habitually.

God is faithful to the first group. To the second group, Jesus said even though you called me Lord, Lord, I never knew you. Come on now!

The gates of heaven will not be breached by lip service.

FAITH: Believing that if you abide in Christ, produce fruit, remain salty, keep God's commandments, he'll be faithful and save you.

1 John 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.​

John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

PERVERSION: Supposing there is no contract, that we'll be saved despite not abiding, not producing fruit, not remaining salty, not keeping his commandments. In short, supposing God is a rapist, who will save us against our will.

1 John 5:3​

Loving God means keeping his commandments​

Hebrews 10:26
if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Isn’t it obvious? God did not send his son to brutally die on a cross so people could sin with impunity. Hebrews 10:26 exactly refuted OSAS.

 

[Taken]

Asking me questions I already answered is NOT the same as keeping it secret! This will be my last post in this thread and it reminds me to stay out of such threads where people embrace doctrine as their IDOL.

If You had Answered, I would not have Asked you.

I have No issue to Answer What I asked of you…in A few Straight forward Words.

ARE you Saved?
Yes.

IF Yes, Why?
Because, I Believed in my heart And chose to Confess my Heartful belief to Christ the Lord Jesus …
AND
chose to lay down my life to bodily Crucifixion WITH Jesus’ Body …
AND
Trusted He IS Faithful and Forgave me FOR having HAD NOT believe …
AND
Trusted His Spirit Dwells with-IN me, Keeping me, By His POWER, With Him ONCE, ALWAYS, and FOREVER.

IF Yes, How many times?
Once

IF Yes, Can you become UN-Saved?
No

IF Yes, How?
Not possible For me.

Asking me questions I already answered is NOT the same as keeping it secret!

You did NOT answer.

This will be my last post in this thread and it reminds me to stay out of such threads where people embrace doctrine as their IDOL.

No one has said or implied such a thing.
Gaslighting, and making up False Claims, as a supposed clever means, to deflect from stating your own standing;
IS an old and worn out easily recognized Tactic, to attempt to deflect from yourself and silence.

People WHO ARE Saved, “should” Know Why and How that was Accomplished.

People WHO ARE Saved, “should” Have NO Shame, Fear, Reservation, To share their Standing.
But “Rather” Glorify God, by Expressly Sharing their Standing IN and With the Lord God…AND His Faithfulness…
To: Have Seal-ED them,
Deliver-ED them,
From…Ever Again being capable of (SIN) ie. UN-Belief
From…Ever Again being Separated FROM God
AND
From…Ever Having to Experience the Torments of Hell
AND
From…Ever Being Subject to Wrath and Tribulations Promised to be SENT Down FROM Heaven upon the Whole Earth.

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 5:
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ,
(THEN)
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Cor.1
[10] Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Col.1
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1Thes.1
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


That Which the Lord God HAS Accomplished
Shall NOT be “UN- Done”…;
* By the words, works, power of men
* By the words, works, power of Satan.
* By God Himself…
BECAUSE:

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

YES, Salvation ONCE Given a man…is Salvation unto that man Forever.

Glory to God, Faithful and True,
Taken

 

[Rich R]

I don’t define words; they are already defined. Consult your favorite lexicon. In application consider.

Then I take it you have nothing more to say. I'll be blocking you from commenting on my posts.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Scripture affirms that faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of salvation, not obedience to God’s commands as a means to earn it.

Those claiming this don't have Jesus as their Lord.

They want Him as Savior, but they reject Him as their Lord which will cause them to go to hell

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Thus, while obedience is not the cause of salvation, it is a reliable sign of a living faith.

Without faith, there is no salvation

Walking after the flesh results in one being back on the high way to hell.

The smart ones repent and get off the highway to hell and live after the leading of the Holy Spirit.
Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

*Notice Romans 8:13 is saying we stop walking after the flesh thru the Holy Spirit???

 

[PinSeeker]

JustMe: Scripture affirms that faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of salvation, not obedience to God’s commands as a means to earn it.

Those claiming this don't have Jesus as their Lord.

Might want to read Ephesians 2 ~ "God... made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace you have been saved⁠ ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus... by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works..." and Hebrews 12 "...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith" (among many others) again, Big Boy.

Without faith, there is no salvation

Right, but faith is a gift of God by His Spirit... "there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit... it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good... to another faith by the same Spirit... All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills." (1 Corinthians 12)

And of course the very definition of faith is "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). At the very least, one must be able to see that this assurance must come from outside of himself/herself. One cannot assure himself or herself of anything not seen; that is no assurance at all. The assurance ~ assurance ~ comes from God. The conviction we then have because of the working of this faith in us by the Spirit, Who gifts it to us (1 Corinthians 12 above). And then having it, which is a result of being born again of the Spirit, then our obedience and good works are the natural result.

...repent and get off the highway to hell and live after the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, and the ones who are born again of the Spirit then do this, freely and willingly. This is what we are created for... set free to do.

Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

For sure.

...people embrace doctrine as their IDOL.

Ahhh, well it seems you, Wrangler (and Big Boy, and others here) should look in the mirror on that. You're actually idolizing yourself here... idolizing your own free will, which probably sounds a bit strange, but we can idolize anything... At any rate, yeah, the will and whether it is free or not is beside the point altogether. It's not about the will and/or whether it is free or not. Of course we have free will... of course. But it's about the state of the heart, and at any given time whether one is of the devil, with him as our father (which is the natural state of us all) or born again and thus of God and in Christ with God as our Father.

Grace and peace to both of you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

.let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith" (among many others) again, Big Boy.

Yeah and explain what happens if after one gets born again and does NOT run the race with endurance and falls away from the Lord going back to walking after the flesh.

See you don't accept the whole counsel of God. This leads to the false belief that living in sin is no big deal because so many false teachers out there teach it's not possible to lose your salvation where God's Word contains warnings that let us know it's very possible for one to lose their salvation

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Did you notice the part that says:
IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Ignore the whole counsel of God at your own peril

You're actually idolizing yourself here..

I'm repeating scripture that you are apparently ignorant of seeing you don't accept the whole counsel of the Lord.

But it's about the state of the heart,

If a person's heart is right before the Lord they would not be going around proudly proclaiming "I'm a sinner" which leads people to believe living in sin is normal and so most churches are filled with people who walk after the flesh who no longer know the Lord

 

[PinSeeker]

...explain what happens if after one gets born again and does NOT run the race with endurance and falls away from the Lord going back to walking after the flesh.

Well sure, but no need; you know, and we agree on this. But the very Biblical fact is, if one does "get born again," he or she will not fail to "run the race with endurance" and will not fall away from the Lord. And that is because he or she no longer has an evil, unbelieving heart and will not be led by it to fall away (Hebrews 3:12).

See you don't accept the whole counsel of God.

I absolutely do.

This leads to the false belief that living in sin is no big deal...

Right, that's certainly a false belief... <chuckles>

...because so many false teachers out there teach it's not possible to lose your salvation...

But in teaching that, I would say they are not necessarily false teachers; that label only fits depending on the sense in which they mean "not possible." I well understand that you don't get that, that you won't differentiate between those two very different senses of "not possible."

where God's Word contains warnings that let us know it's very possible for one to lose their salvation

Ah. The issue itself. What that one does in that case, Big Boy, is prove, even to himself or herself, that he or she was never granted salvation... never received the mercy and compassion of the Lord, by His grace, of course, and thus was never born again by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says in Romans 9:15-18 (yet again), quoting God Himself through Moses regarding any human being included as one of His elect:

"'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."​

And as I have point out numerous times, yes, it is possible for us to fall away, not from salvation itself ~ because "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29) ~ but from the faith, from being in the presence of true faith... and even thinking for a time that one indeed has that same faith... so from being in the presence and sharing with people who indeed have that faith (which, again, is God's assurance of eternal life). In that case, they share for a time in the outward benefits of faith but do not have it internally... do not have God's Spirit. It's not in their heart. They do not have this new spirit given to them by God, and therefore do not have true faith and the newness of heart that comes with it. That's the issue. Again, as Hebrews 3:12 says, "Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God."

As I have said many times, Paul addresses this very issue, the issue of any kind of perceived "license to sin" in Romans 5:

"What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness... now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." (Romans 6:15-22)​

I'm repeating scripture that you are apparently ignorant of seeing...

No, you're preaching to the choir... <smile> But only in a... limited... way. <smile>

you don't accept the whole counsel of the Lord.

<sigh> Yes, I do, Big Boy. Surely, you may hold whatever opinion you want to on anything. But that's the irony here: at least on what we're talking about here <smile> I obviously am more familiar with what the Bible has to say about it than you. Any hey, you may call that my opinion, and that's perfectly okay with me <chuckles>...

If a person's heart is right before the Lord they would not be going around proudly proclaiming "I'm a sinner" which leads people to believe living in sin is normal...

Such misunderstanding... or ignorance, I'm not sure which... of what is really at the heart (pun intended) of the issue. Maybe now it's just intransigence. <smile> If a person's heart is right before the Lord, it is because that person has been born again and is of the Lord, and even though not yet perfect at anything will not continue living in sin. Cannot, not in the wooden sense of not being able to, but in the sense that because of the change in his heart his desire is to do the will of the Father. In view of what I said just above, the state of the heart is what it is from the beginning of life, but depending on God's mercy and compassion ~ which He gives to some and not to others; this is His purpose of election ~ either remains that way or does not. Again, "it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). If you have a changed heart, Big Boy ~ and I'm assuming that for you, as is the case for me, this is true ~ then you, as do I, owe it all to God.

...most churches are filled with people who walk after the flesh who no longer know the Lord

Hmmm, well, except for the "no longer" part, I agree with you here, too. Yes, churches are rife with people who don't really know the Lord, and never did. And, in the final Judgment, Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness"... And these will go away into eternal punishment" <shudder>

Grace and peace to you, Big Boy.