Why does mainstream Christianity believe that it's "unorthodox" to teach that Jesus will unite ALL things to himself?

[RepentingChristian]

It's very plainly written and easy to understand. I believe that mainstream Christians reject this scripture due to spiritual blindness. There's no other explanation.

Ephesians 1:10
as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Here is a standard, secular, definition of "unite": Unite (verb): To join together; to bring or come into a single unit, group, or whole, often for a common purpose.

 

[Anchorite]

I have never heard any mainstream Christianity say it is unorthodox to teach that Jesus will unite all things to Himself. This a basic, core doctrine.

Can you quote with link an incidence of this?

 

[RepentingChristian]

I have never heard any mainstream Christianity say it is unorthodox to teach that Jesus will unite all things to Himself. This a basic, core doctrine.

Can you quote with link an incidence of this?

It contradicts mainstream Christian theology that some are forever lost in "Hell".

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It's very plainly written and easy to understand. I believe that mainstream Christians reject this scripture due to spiritual blindness. There's no other explanation.

Ephesians 1:10
as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Here is a standard, secular, definition of "unite": Unite (verb): To join together; to bring or come into a single unit, group, or whole, often for a common purpose.

Context is key. Read the first 9 verses leading up to verse 10. The message is to Christians (the chosen/ elect/in Christ). He will gather "all things IN CHRIST". That does not include sin/ evil or reprobates outside of Christ. Good and evil will soon be separated- that is the plan - 1000 years in peace without evil ... until towards the end of that age when Saran will be released for a short time to gather more reprobate to then meet there destiny too, once and for all - destruction in the Lake of Fire.
But of course there are Universalists who continue to argue differently, with weak assumptions ... proof texting out of context. Oh well, they will snap out of it soon.

 

[RepentingChristian]

Context is key. He will gather "all things IN CHRIST".

Your statement contradicts the scripture. I believe you are misunderstanding verse 1. The letter is written TO the church leaders, but it is not only ABOUT them.

In verse 9 Paul says that God has made known to them the mystery of his will. And what is the mystery of his will. That is answered in verse 10. Paul wrote that Jesus is to unite ALL THINGS in him, including things in Heaven. Paul didn't write to unite "all Christians" or "all believers". No, he wrote "ALL THINGS".

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

Ephesians 1:1-10
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful[a] in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ[d] 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in him.

 

[Rockerduck]

Your statement contradicts the scripture. I believe you are misunderstanding verse 1. The letter is written TO the church leaders, but it is not only ABOUT them.

In verse 9 Paul says that God has made known to them the mystery of his will. And what is the mystery of his will. That is answered in verse 10. Paul wrote that Jesus is to unite ALL THINGS in him, including things in Heaven. Paul didn't write to unite "all Christians" or "all believers". No, he wrote "ALL THINGS".

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

Ephesians 1:1-10
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful[a] in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of? His will, according to His purpose, which he set forth in Christ[d] 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him.

How many times do you see "In Christ", "In Him"? All things in Christ are summary of those who were chosen from the foundation of the world concerning the church, the Body of Christ.
Ephesians 1:22-23 - And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[RepentingChristian]

So you folks disagree that Jesus will "unite" ALL THINGS in him. Fair enough.

 

[Anchorite]

Do these verses indicate that all people, including sinners who never repented, will be united in Christ?


Revelation 21

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Revelation 22

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[RepentingChristian]

Do these verses indicate that all people, including sinners who never repented, will be united in Christ?

So you agree that Jesus is an incompetent FAILURE incapable of uniting and saving all beings. Cool.

 

[ScottA]

It's very plainly written and easy to understand. I believe that mainstream Christians reject this scripture due to spiritual blindness. There's no other explanation.

Ephesians 1:10
as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Here is a standard, secular, definition of "unite": Unite (verb): To join together; to bring or come into a single unit, group, or whole, often for a common purpose.

But "all things" also includes "the darkness"--which changes the meaning of Ephesians 1:10 to include "dividing" "the light from the darkness" and the "dissolve" of all the elements with fire.

 

[Rockerduck]

So you agree that Jesus is an incompetent FAILURE incapable of uniting and saving all beings. Cool.

Jesus says accept Him or you are sending yourselves to Hell. You understand, people send themselves to Hell by rejecting Jesus as Savior. Everyone has a choice. Luke 13:2-5

 

[RepentingChristian]

But "all things" also includes "the darkness"--which changes the meaning of Ephesians 1:10 to include "dividing" "the light from the darkness" and the "dissolve" of all the elements with fire.

Will Jesus unite all things or not?

 

[RepentingChristian]

Jesus says accept Him or you are sending yourselves to Hell. You understand, people send themselves to Hell by rejecting Jesus as Savior. Everyone has a choice. Luke 13:2-5

So Jesus fails at uniting all things and then many are tortured forever in Hell. Correct?

 

[Anchorite]

So you agree that Jesus is an incompetent FAILURE incapable of uniting and saving all beings. Cool.

Jesus saves all those who trust in Him. Those who hate Christ and refuse to stop being sinful have decided they do not want salvation.

John 3

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


Should God allow “the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars” into the pure sinless realm of heaven?

If your version of heaven is a realm of evil people who never repented mixed in with saved individuals, that is your privilege.

But Revelation 21:8 says these vile, wicked ones “shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

Revelation 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[ScottA]

Will Jesus unite all things or not?

You are asking (attempting to force) the wrong question.

The answer, however, is that He did (past tense) unite all things on the cross--which included dissolving much of what you have referred to--defeating even death, which is to say the flesh, that unlike the spirit, is the form having "shadow of turning" which does not exist with God and the kingdom of God. Meaning, you have not rightly divided the word of truth, but are referring to things of this world that are to be completely "dissolved."

 

[RepentingChristian]

Jesus saves all those who trust in Him. Those who hate Christ and refuse to stop being sinful have decided they do not want salvation.

John 3

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


Should God allow “the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars” into the pure sinless realm of heaven?

If your version of heaven is a realm of evil people who never repented mixed in with saved individuals, that is your privilege.

But Revelation 21:8 says these vile, wicked ones “shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

Revelation 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Ok, so you believe that Jesus fails to unite all things as stated here. Cool.

1 Ephesians 10
as a plan for the fullness of time, TO UNITE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, things in heaven and things on earth in him.

 

[RepentingChristian]

is that He did (past tense) unite all things on the cross

How can "all things" be "united" if some things are in Heaven while other things are being burned forever in Hell?

 

[Anchorite]

Ok, so you believe that Jesus fails to unite all things as stated here. Cool.

1 Ephesians 10
as a plan for the fullness of time, TO UNITE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, things in heaven and things on earth in him.

So you believe the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars deserve to go to heaven? Okay. Your religion is not Christianity.

Revelation 21

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Revelation 22

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[RepentingChristian]

So you believe the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars deserve to go to heaven? Okay. Your religion is not Christianity.

What do you think Jesus did wrong in his failure to unite all things? Stupidity? Incompetence? Lack of caring? How did Jesus fail so many?

 

[ScottA]

How can "all things" be "united" if some things are in Heaven while other things are being burned forever in Hell?

Good question--good of you to ask!

Let's break it down. Here is a good representation of the original language. You can click on any of the links for proper definitions:

he might gather together in one G346 all things G3956 in G1722 Christ, G5547 both G5037 which G3588 are in G1722 heaven, G3772 and G2532 which G3588 are on G1909 earth; G1093 even in G1722 him: G846​

First, however, if you will notice "all things" includes "and which are on earth." Which cannot rightfully be considered "good" or "very good" as they were created before the fall, but also even every "evil" thing. All of which the scriptures do not describe or confirm as all being "saved", but as "some" indeed going to heaven and "some" to hell--or "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."

But the "uniting" you speak of is stated here above rather as "gather together"...which speaks of the "harvest." Of which it is written (Jesus said) as wheat verses tares: "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn"--His barn not being hell, but heaven.