Christ has already returned ?

[MatthewG]

This is the point: "This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

The Book of Revelation calls itself prophecy, and its clearest future prophecies are the visible Second Coming (Rev 1:7; 14:14–20; 16:15; 19:11–21) and the literal Millennial Reign (Rev 20:1–6). The sequence is explicit: Christ returns, judges, binds Satan, raises the saints, and reigns for a thousand years.

1. Revelation Identifies Itself as Prophecy​

Revelation opens and closes by declaring its genre:

• Rev 1:1–3 — “The revelation… to show His servants things which must shortly take place… Blessed is he who reads… the words of this prophecy.”
• Rev 22:7,10,18–19 — “Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

This frames the entire book as predictive, not merely symbolic or historical.

2. Futurist Passages Prophesying the Second Coming of Christ​

These are the clearest future‑looking prophecies of Christ’s visible return.

A. Revelation 1:7 — The Programmatic Prophecy: “He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him…”​

This verse sets the trajectory for the whole book: a visible, global, public return.

B. Revelation 14:14–20 — The Son of Man Harvests the Earth​

John sees:

• “One like the Son of Man” on a cloud
• With a sharp sickle
• Reaping the earth in judgment

This is a pre‑Armageddon preview of Christ’s return in judgment.

C. Revelation 16:15 — The Interjected Warning: “Behold, I am coming as a thief.”​

Inserted between the sixth and seventh bowls, this is a direct prophetic announcement of His imminent return.

D. Revelation 19:11–16 — The Climactic Second Coming​

This is the most explicit Second Coming passage in the entire Bible:

• Heaven opened
• Christ on a white horse
• Called Faithful and True
• Eyes like fire
• Many crowns
• Armies of heaven following Him
• Strikes the nations
• Rules with a rod of iron

This is not symbolic of the church; it is the personal return of Christ in power and glory.

E. Revelation 19:17–21 — Armageddon and the Defeat of the Beast​

Christ:

• Slays the Beast’s armies
• Casts the Beast and False Prophet into the lake of fire

This is the eschatological battle tied directly to His return.

3. Futurist Passages Prophesying the Millennial Reign of Christ​

The Millennial Kingdom is described explicitly in Revelation 20:1–6.

A. Revelation 20:1–3 — Satan Bound for 1,000 Years​

An angel:

• Seizes Satan
• Binds him
• Casts him into the abyss
• Seals it for a thousand years

This is a future, chronological event following the Second Coming of chapter 19.

B. Revelation 20:4 — The Reign of Christ and the Martyrs​

John sees:

• Thrones
• Those given authority to judge
• The martyrs who refused the Beast
• “They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”

This is the first resurrection (v. 5–6), and it is future, bodily, and earthly.

C. Revelation 20:5–6 — The First Resurrection and Blessedness of the Saints​

The text explicitly distinguishes:

• The first resurrection (of the righteous)
• The rest of the dead (who rise later)

And it states: “They shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

This is the Millennial Reign, not a metaphor for the church age.

4. Futurist Flow of Revelation (Ch. 19–20)​

A Futurist reading sees a straight chronological sequence:

1. Second Coming (19:11–16)
2. Armageddon (19:17–21)
3. Satan bound (20:1–3)
4. First resurrection (20:4–6)
5. Millennial reign (20:4–6)
6. Satan released (20:7–10)
7. Final judgment (20:11–15)

This is the simplest, most natural reading of the text.

Yeah but we need the spirit. You can comment all day it doesn’t matter to me man.

You up ignore my first retort. That’s very typical of people who want to fight.

It’s stupid to fight.
. I don’t want to fight. I’m just stating obvious things concerning your first mention.

Thanks buddy! The fact you can’t respond to the first retort says a lot… not that it matters.

Believe what you want. I still believe Jesus came back and wasn’t a liar that’s all on me; against the world. lol.

You have a good night @Stumpmaster you got me stumped!

 

[MatthewG]

For me, it’s like this. There are people who sincerely believe that the Kingdom will one day come to earth in a visible way — that Jesus will physically reign here for a period of time before the end finally arrives. Many of these people are genuine, God‑fearing believers, and I respect that. Their sincerity isn’t in question.

But I’m someone who wants the truth on these matters, not traditions or theories. And when I look at Scripture, I don’t see this whole future earthly‑kingdom scenario laid out the way it’s often taught. Growing up, I saw things like the Left Behind series, and a lot of that mixed political ideas with Jesus, the Antichrist, and end‑times speculation. It shaped people’s expectations, but not necessarily from Scripture itself.

A lot of people simply believe what they were told. And at the end of the day, each person has to choose for themselves. We go around sharing the Bible, explaining it the best we can with what we’ve been given. But we also have to remember what Scripture actually says about who we are right now.

Paul says we belong to “the Jerusalem above” (Galatians 4:26). He says God “has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of His beloved Son” (Colossians 1:13). Jesus Himself said, “The Kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21). That means we are already sons and daughters of God, already part of His heavenly reality through faith.

So if someone believes what they believe simply because they’ve chosen to hold to it — and they don’t desire to reconsider — then that ultimately comes down to their own will and desires. What a person accepts as true or not true is something they themselves must wrestle with.

That’s where I stand.

I’m not here to fight anyone about Jesus or His return.
At the end of the day, it’s simple: either He did what He said, or He didn’t.

I can’t “prove” anything to satisfy someone else’s argument. What I do have is faith — faith that Jesus wasn’t a liar, and that He kept His word to the generation He personally spoke to.

Jesus said plainly, “This generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).
He told His disciples, “Some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming” (Matthew 16:28).

And we have real historical evidence of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — exactly the event Jesus described in detail (Matthew 24:2; Luke 21:20–22). Early Christian writers like Eusebius also recorded that the believers fled to Pella before the siege, just as Jesus warned them to.

So my faith rests on this:
Jesus said it, the apostles preached it, and history records the fulfillment.
I’m not arguing with anyone about it — I simply believe He told the truth.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I’m not here to fight anyone about Jesus or His return.
At the end of the day, it’s simple: either He did what He said, or He didn’t.

I can’t “prove” anything to satisfy someone else’s argument. What I do have is faith — faith that Jesus wasn’t a liar, and that He kept His word to the generation He personally spoke to.

Jesus said plainly, “This generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).
He told His disciples, “Some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming” (Matthew 16:28).

And we have real historical evidence of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — exactly the event Jesus described in detail (Matthew 24:2; Luke 21:20–22). Early Christian writers like Eusebius also recorded that the believers fled to Pella before the siege, just as Jesus warned them to.

So my faith rests on this:
Jesus said it, the apostles preached it, and history records the fulfillment.
I’m not arguing with anyone about it — I simply believe He told the truth.

""""""At the end of the day, it’s simple: either He did what He said, or He didn’t.
If Christ has returned then when did the following occur ?
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[MatthewG]

""""""At the end of the day, it’s simple: either He did what He said, or He didn’t.
If Christ has returned then when did the following occur ?
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

What are you expecting ? Answer me that.

Just be honest and share ?

Do you got another day when Jesus is supposed to to show up like alll the other failures in life have made? Then have to escape their first trangression and keep their cult going and stuff?


What’s the reality for you?


Answer me some of those questions.


My answers suck and are not sufficient.



You shared some doctrine link last time with me where is that again do I need to read about the mystery?



There other people on this forum proliferating mysteries too.


But like I don’t believe in Sasquatch and stuff…

 

[PeterAndroz]

What are you expecting ? Answer me that.

Just be honest and share ?

Do you got another day when Jesus is supposed to to show up like alll the other failures in life have made? Then have to escape their first trangression and keep their cult going and stuff?


What’s the reality for you?


Answer me some of those questions.


My answers suck and are not sufficient.



You shared some doctrine link last time with me where is that again do I need to read about the mystery?



There other people on this forum proliferating mysteries too.


But like I don’t believe in Sasquatch and stuff…

Again opinion, but no dates.
Try again Matt, when did the following occur ?
..
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[MatthewG]

I understand that many here don’t share my view, but I want to speak honestly about where I stand. I believe in fulfillment — that Jesus kept His promise and returned to the generation He spoke to (Matthew 24:34). That conviction doesn’t damage my life or my faith. Yahavah has never struck me down for trusting His Son, nor for believing that the first‑century bride of Christ endured exactly what Scripture said they would (Revelation 1:1–3).

That’s simply the truth of my heart. And the reality is: none of you can see my face or hear my voice. You only see words on a screen, not the person behind them.

Many people today get lost in their church culture. Sometimes people end up worshiping their leaders or their group instead of God Himself. They assume whatever their circle says must be right. Scripture warns about this tendency: “Let God be true, and every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

There are also people who use God’s name as a weapon — spiritually abusive, manipulative, or controlling. And those who can’t discern it often elevate these individuals as “spiritual gurus,” slowly shifting their eyes away from Jesus (Colossians 2:8). When that happens, the self becomes the front man, and Jesus gets pushed into the background.

I’m not here to fight anyone. I’m simply sharing what I believe about the first‑century fulfillment of Jesus’ promises. If others need certain signs or expectations to feel satisfied in their own faith, that’s their choice. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But I’ve seen something powerful:
When a person accepts that Jesus returned just as He said He would — to the people He promised — it reshapes their worldview. It feels like stepping into the new heaven and new earth, becoming spiritually alive and raised with Christ into newness of life (Romans 6:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

Revelation is a difficult book. Its opening words alone — “things which must shortly come to pass” — make it challenging for modern readers because the language is rooted in a different world and time.

People have spent their entire lives trying to interpret it. There are four major views, and sincere believers fall into each one. At the end of the day, the real question is this:

Can we still love one another even if we see these things differently? (John 13:35)

That’s the heart I’m speaking from.

 

[MatthewG]

Again opinion, but no dates.
Try again Matt, when did the following occur ?
..
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I base my stance on faith it has nothing to do with dates and that’s what’s cool for me. I don’t have to see anything I can read about though.


It’s as simple as saying was Jesus a liar? And did those people even exist? Jesus must never told them that they told me that. I mean people can play around with words all day.

But you expect a nuclear holocaust ; when do you expect that right?

That’s your opinion not facts to back it up. Right?

You just got faith that is gonna happen.


Okay then if you say so whatever you want.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m someone who believes Jesus was seen physically, not spiritually or symbolically. Scripture says plainly, “He presented Himself alive… being seen by them” (Acts 1:3). That physical appearing matters, because it anchors everything in real fulfillment, not abstraction.

My belief goes against the core of their system because I hold to fulfillment — that Jesus kept His word exactly as He said He would. He was not a liar. He told His disciples, “Some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). I take Him at His word.

Read what follows that verse, which is a description of His transfiguration. Have you ever considered that He could have been talking about His transfiguration? There where some who had been standing there when He was speaking in Matthew 16:28 (Peter, James and John) who saw Him appear in glory at His transfiguration. They basically were given a preview of His coming in glory. I don't believe He was saying they would actually see His second coming itself. He hasn't come back yet. I know you believe otherwise, but you are unfortunately sadly mistaken.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I understand that many here don’t share my view, but I want to speak honestly about where I stand. I believe in fulfillment — that Jesus kept His promise and returned to the generation He spoke to (Matthew 24:34). That conviction doesn’t damage my life or my faith. Yahavah has never struck me down for trusting His Son, nor for believing that the first‑century bride of Christ endured exactly what Scripture said they would (Revelation 1:1–3).

That’s simply the truth of my heart. And the reality is: none of you can see my face or hear my voice. You only see words on a screen, not the person behind them.

Many people today get lost in their church culture. Sometimes people end up worshiping their leaders or their group instead of God Himself. They assume whatever their circle says must be right. Scripture warns about this tendency: “Let God be true, and every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

There are also people who use God’s name as a weapon — spiritually abusive, manipulative, or controlling. And those who can’t discern it often elevate these individuals as “spiritual gurus,” slowly shifting their eyes away from Jesus (Colossians 2:8). When that happens, the self becomes the front man, and Jesus gets pushed into the background.

I’m not here to fight anyone. I’m simply sharing what I believe about the first‑century fulfillment of Jesus’ promises. If others need certain signs or expectations to feel satisfied in their own faith, that’s their choice. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But I’ve seen something powerful:
When a person accepts that Jesus returned just as He said He would — to the people He promised — it reshapes their worldview. It feels like stepping into the new heaven and new earth, becoming spiritually alive and raised with Christ into newness of life (Romans 6:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

Revelation is a difficult book. Its opening words alone — “things which must shortly come to pass” — make it challenging for modern readers because the language is rooted in a different world and time.

People have spent their entire lives trying to interpret it. There are four major views, and sincere believers fall into each one. At the end of the day, the real question is this:

Can we still love one another even if we see these things differently? (John 13:35)

That’s the heart I’m speaking from.

You claim Christ has already returned then answer when did these occur :-
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[PeterAndroz]

I base my stance on faith it has nothing to do with dates and that’s what’s cool for me. I don’t have to see anything I can read about though.


It’s as simple as saying was Jesus a liar? And did those people even exist? Jesus must never told them that they told me that. I mean people can play around with words all day.

But you expect a nuclear holocaust ; when do you expect that right?

That’s your opinion not facts to back it up. Right?

You just got faith that is gonna happen.


Okay then if you say so whatever you want.

You claim Christ has already returned then answer when did these occur :-
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[MatthewG]

You claim Christ has already returned then answer when did these occur :-
When Matt 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
When 1 Thess 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When did 2 Thess 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

In 70ad for the uptenth time and I’m not pretrist person. I believe Jesus came and was seen just as he left and not some spiritual return like they say.

 

[MatthewG]

Read what follows that verse, which is a description of His transfiguration. Have you ever considered that He could have been talking about His transfiguration? There where some who had been standing there when He was speaking in Matthew 16:28 (Peter, James and John) who saw Him appear in glory at His transfiguration. They basically were given a preview of His coming in glory. I don't believe He was saying they would actually see His second coming itself. He hasn't come back yet. I know you believe otherwise, but you are unfortunately sadly mistaken.

I’m glad I’m wrong you know it?

And I hope your right.

Jesus is with me now in my heart he came back to me in my heart and I’ll see him when I die.

He comes to a lot people and changes their heart.

The people in Hebrews was told they were gonna see the second coming.

You can say whatever you want.


It’s people who don’t give a dang about change that sucks.

 

[PeterAndroz]

In 70ad for the uptenth time and I’m not pretrist person.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
70AD was worse than the nuclear bombings of Japan in WW2 ?

 

[MatthewG]

No one in the world has authority over the Bible.

So you can say whatever you want about.


Your desires are what is core.


And I don’t know your life or what you been through or what you been taught or what you fixate on.


The Bible is just the Bible it can not be the Spirit of Christ and the Bible can not be God…

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In 70ad for the uptenth time and I’m not pretrist person. I believe Jesus came and was seen just as he left and not some spiritual return like they say.

So, where do you think He is now? Still on the earth somewhere? Or do you think He went back to heaven again after that? If so, when?

 

[MatthewG]

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
70AD was worse than the nuclear bombings of Japan in WW2 ?

According to people. But 70Ad was worse to me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m glad I’m wrong you know it?

And I hope your right.

Jesus is with me now in my heart he came back to me in my heart and I’ll see him when I die.

He comes to a lot people and changes their heart.

The people in Hebrews was told they were gonna see the second coming.

You can say whatever you want.


It’s people who don’t give a dang about change that sucks.

Calm down there. I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion with you and I'm not judging you, okay? I'm just asking if you've considered the possibility that Jesus could have been talking about His transfiguration in Matthew 16:28 or not. So, have you?

 

[MatthewG]

People believe history repeats itself and it does but yeah…


Gods gonna. Let the world be as it is… Jesus done did his part and the bride too.


Now we are left to live and make our own choices.

 

[MatthewG]

So, where do you think He is now? Still on the earth somewhere? Or do you think He went back to heaven again after that? If so, when?

I believe Jesus came and got his bride and sat on the throne with God. And we live by the spirit of Christ and that’s it. We reap what sow and live our lives.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe Jesus came and got his bride and sat on the throne with God. And we live by the spirit of Christ and that’s it. We reap what sow and live our lives.

You're saying you believe He came and got His bride in 70 AD and then immediately went back to heaven with His bride? Don't you believe that those who are Christians now are part of His bride?