How do we know the Jesus we hope for is how He is?

[PeterAndroz]

Are we supposed to ignore what Paul said in Ephesians about receiving the HS?



Yes, I agree with that.

I still do not understand why you are reluctant to say exactly what Paul explained to the 12.

Romans to Philemon are books by Paul


""Are we supposed to ignore what Paul said in Ephesians about receiving the HS?""
No, we are SEALED with the HS when we hear, trust, believe the gospel, NO other conditions are mentioned anywhere in Romans to Philemon.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
..
""I still do not understand why you are reluctant to say exactly what Paul explained to the 12.""
I answered the question - What Christ taught to Paul in Gal 1:11-12
faith/trust/belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ
..
What did Peter(12) do/say when Christ told them that He must die then resurrect as Paul teaches in 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
They were confused, didn't understand etc etc
Matt 16:-
21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

 

[markalan]

Romans to Philemon are books by Paul
View attachment 89983

""Are we supposed to ignore what Paul said in Ephesians about receiving the HS?""
No, we are SEALED with the HS when we hear, trust, believe the gospel, NO other conditions are mentioned anywhere in Romans to Philemon.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The word "after" in reference to the Ephesians indicates receiving the HS (at least in some people) is a different experience to accepting Jesus' atonement for sin.

""I still do not understand why you are reluctant to say exactly what Paul explained to the 12.""
I answered the question - What Christ taught to Paul in Gal 1:11-12
faith/trust/belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ

So you think Peter did not believe that before Paul told him?

What did Peter(12) do/say when Christ told them that He must die then resurrect as Paul teaches in 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
They were confused, didn't understand etc etc
Matt 16:-
21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

The disciples did not fully understand until Jesus' rose from the dead.


Luke 24:45-
Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The word "after" in reference to the Ephesians indicates receiving the HS (at least in some people) is a different experience to accepting Jesus' atonement for sin.



So you think Peter did not believe that before Paul told him?



The disciples did not fully understand until Jesus' rose from the dead.


Luke 24:45-
Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things.

""So you think Peter did not believe that before Paul told him?""

Good, then you agree that 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teaches a believer is saved & HS sealed by believing in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ - no lay hands & pray by others as >>>sometimes<<< required during Acts.
..
Please list the verses where Peter teaches exactly the same

 

[markalan]

""So you think Peter did not believe that before Paul told him?""

Good, then you agree that 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teaches a believer is saved & HS sealed by believing in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ - no lay hands & pray by others as >>>sometimes<<< required during Acts.
..
Please list the verses where Peter teaches exactly the same

Every blessing bestowed on Christians is through faith in Jesus Christ. There is no doubt about that.

What I see is that receiving the HS is not necessarily at the moment of believing as Paul demonstrates in Ephesians.

Peter was the one who ministered to the house of Cornelius where the HS was received at the moment of believing.
He reported his experience to the council at Jerusalem

Acts 15:7-9
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them,
Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

There is no difference between Peter & Paul.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Every blessing bestowed on Christians is through faith in Jesus Christ. There is no doubt about that.

What I see is that receiving the HS is not necessarily at the moment of believing as Paul demonstrates in Ephesians.

Peter was the one who ministered to the house of Cornelius where the HS was received at the moment of believing.
He reported his experience to the council at Jerusalem

Acts 15:7-9
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them,
Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

There is no difference between Peter & Paul.

"There is no difference between Peter & Paul.""
Paul teaches 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
List the verses where Peter teaches the same - saved & HS sealed c/- trust/belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ

 

[markalan]

"There is no difference between Peter & Paul.""
Paul teaches 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
List the verses where Peter teaches the same - saved & HS sealed c/- trust/belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ

You do not see that in Peter's words I quoted?
Read Peter's full speech in Acts 15.

Then there are Peter's 5 sermons in Acts, such as

Acts 5:30-32
The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.
God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior,
to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
And we are witnesses to these things,
and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

 

[PeterAndroz]

You do not see that in Peter's words I quoted?
Read Peter's full speech in Acts 15.

Acts 8:15-18 Peter, John had to lay hands & pray for some to receive the HS
Show where Paul teaches the same in 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 or ANYWHERE from Romans through to Philemon

 

[markalan]

Acts 8:15-18 Peter, John had to lay hands & pray for some to receive the HS
Show where Paul teaches the same in 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 or ANYWHERE from Romans through to Philemon

We agree that some received the HS with the laying on of hands and some without.

I am really very puzzled why you reject these verses as showing what you asked.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them [the Ephesians] , the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[PeterAndroz]

We agree that some received the HS with the laying on of hands and some without.

I am really very puzzled why you reject these verses as showing what you asked.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

""We agree that some received the HS with the laying on of hands and some without.""
DURING Acts but NOWHERE in Romans through to Philemon does Paul teach LAY HANDS & or PRAY was required to receive the HS
So that is one difference between what Paul taught V Peter
Please prove me wrong.