The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[amigo de christo]

I do not agree, strong delusions pile up on those who refuse Christ and his words so they will not come out of. it I see this daily here on this forum. they know who Christ is and did but they wont listen to his words and do what Christ asked us to do. they prefer the easy way that leads to perdition, its much simpler and requires no effort.

and that is why they are being led to the great lie that has been sent
to merge the false religions along with all in christendome who had followed another jesus .
A delusion indeed . for when HE called unto the false religions they rejected HIS Christ , HIS gospel .
And when HE had sent even his own sheep into christendom
to correct and rebuke they cast them out as haters . And thus reprobation , the delusion of all delusions
was sent . What is the one common lie YOU Seeing
that is able to bring the false religions and the decieved of christendom together .
THE LIE that we all now serve the same GOD and we must find common ground f or wo rld PEACE N safety .
For what
PEACE n safety .
And now a word . the same paul , who by the SPIRIT warned of a st rong delusion
Had also warned in his first le tter exactly WHAT they would be saying WHEN such destrruction came upon them all , PEACE
N SAFETY .
the delusion is not coming , ITS HERE . its bEEN HERE . and many now make their bed
in an ecumeincal harlots LOVE chamber . And she is leading them all
to make a covenant of intefaith , which is OF ANTI Christ for peace. ITS HERE and it grows by the h our now .
SOON the ecumeincal cry of CoME and let us be one , will become the CRUSADES of JOIN OR DIE . ITS coming
and even now rises . Great tribulations will st rike at the sheep SOON .

 

[Marvelloustime]

and that is why they are being led to the great lie that has been sent
to merge the false religions along with all in christendome who had followed another jesus .
A delusion indeed . for when HE called unto the false religions they rejected HIS Christ , HIS gospel .
And when HE had sent even his own sheep into christendom
to correct and rebuke they cast them out as haters . And thus reprobation , the delusion of all delusions
was sent . What is the one common lie YOU Seeing
that is able to bring the false religions and the decieved of christendom together .
THE LIE that we all now serve the same GOD and we must find common ground f or wo rld PEACE N safety .
For what
PEACE n safety .
And now a word . the same paul , who by the SPIRIT warned of a st rong delusion
Had also warned in his first le tter exactly WHAT they would be saying WHEN such destrruction came upon them all , PEACE
N SAFETY .
the delusion is not coming , ITS HERE . its bEEN HERE . and many now make their bed
in an ecumeincal harlots LOVE chamber . And she is leading them all
to make a covenant of intefaith , which is OF ANTI Christ for peace. ITS HERE and it grows by the h our now .
SOON the ecumeincal cry of CoME and let us be one , will become the CRUSADES of JOIN OR DIE . ITS coming
and even now rises . Great tribulations will st rike at the sheep SOON .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 91877

the same paul who warned them in his second letter
ALso warned them in his first letter of what They would also be chanting right before their own sudden destruction .
PEACE N SAFETY .
The DELUSION is all tied into this peace n safety . AND IT IS . i have seen its d ialogue
IT has LIED to all religions and christendom , claiming we all serve the same GOD . THUS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS D ENIED .
ONLY AN ANTICHRIST would ever dared to make such a cliam and a peace plan .
YET the ecuemenical harlot and h er love has led them all RIGHT TO IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

The call is being made . get all , g et all out of and far from anything or anyone connected to
ecumenical inclusive intefaith for peace .
No one here can say i am g uilty of their blood . I Warned . TO JESUS only shall i point
and shall leave us with this reminder .
CURSED is he whose hope be in man
BLESSED is he whose hope be in GOD , thus in HIS CHRIST .

 

[Marvelloustime]

The call is being made . get all , g et all out of and far from anything or anyone connected to
ecumenical inclusive intefaith for peace .
No one here can say i am g uilty of their blood . I Warned . TO JESUS only shall i point
and shall leave us with this reminder .
CURSED is he whose hope be in man
BLESSED is he whose hope be in GOD , thus in HIS CHRIST .

@amigo de christo

 

[LoveYeshua]

Is this return it?
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Or this one?
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Two completely separate comings.
See what the wrong teachers do to their followers?

The mistake is assuming that because Revelation 14 and Revelation 19 describe Jesus differently, they must describe two separate comings.
Different visions do not automatically mean different events. Revelation often shows the same end-time events from different angles.
In Revelation 14:14-16, John sees the Son of Man wearing a golden crown and holding a sharp sickle. The earth is ripe for harvest, and the harvest takes place. This is a picture of God's judgment at the end.
In Revelation 19:11-16, John sees Jesus as the victorious King who comes to judge and defeat the nations. This vision gives us a fuller picture of His victory and authority.
The important connection between these two passages. Revelation 14:19 says, “and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God” . Revelation 19:15 says that Jesus “treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty”

Both passages use the same image of God's wrath and judgment. This is strong evidence that the visions are connected,
not proof of two separate returns.

Jesus Himself described His return in Matthew 24:30 31, when the Son of Man comes on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and His angels gather His elect with a great trumpet. Revelation 19 shows the same Lord returning in victory, while Revelation 14 uses the picture of a harvest to show judgment.

Therefore, you have mistaken two different pictures of the end-time events for two different returns. The question is not whether the visions look different, but whether Scripture actually says Jesus returns twice. These passages do not say that at all and it contradicts other verses.

 

[amigo de christo]

The mistake is assuming that because Revelation 14 and Revelation 19 describe Jesus differently, they must describe two separate comings.
Different visions do not automatically mean different events. Revelation often shows the same end-time events from different angles.
In Revelation 14:14-16, John sees the Son of Man wearing a golden crown and holding a sharp sickle. The earth is ripe for harvest, and the harvest takes place. This is a picture of God's judgment at the end.
In Revelation 19:11-16, John sees Jesus as the victorious King who comes to judge and defeat the nations. This vision gives us a fuller picture of His victory and authority.
The important connection between these two passages. Revelation 14:19 says, “and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God” . Revelation 19:15 says that Jesus “treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty”

Both passages use the same image of God's wrath and judgment. This is strong evidence that the visions are connected,
not proof of two separate returns.

Jesus Himself described His return in Matthew 24:30 31, when the Son of Man comes on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and His angels gather His elect with a great trumpet. Revelation 19 shows the same Lord returning in victory, while Revelation 14 uses the picture of a harvest to show judgment.

Therefore, you have mistaken two different pictures of the end-time events for two different returns. The question is not whether the visions look different, but whether Scripture actually says Jesus returns twice. These passages do not say that at all and it contradicts other verses.

verily verily i do type unto thee , there be only one second coming . and its either wrath or to be with HIM .
ITS ALL A ONE TIME event . HE will come to tread the great and mighty winepress of the wrath OF GOD
upon all who did reject Him , unto all who joined hands in the great delusion of the great trangression by which
a harlot had spoon fed this entire world and its false religoins and much of even christendom
A false ecumeincal love and an anti christ intefaith plan of peace . Tick tock .....................for when they shall
say peace n safety , SUDDEN destructoin cometh down upon them all and they WILL NOT escape .

 

[ewq1938]

The mistake is assuming that because Revelation 14 and Revelation 19 describe Jesus differently, they must describe two separate comings.
Different visions do not automatically mean different events. Revelation often shows the same end-time events from different angles.
In Revelation 14:14-16, John sees the Son of Man wearing a golden crown and holding a sharp sickle. The earth is ripe for harvest, and the harvest takes place. This is a picture of God's judgment at the end.
In Revelation 19:11-16, John sees Jesus as the victorious King who comes to judge and defeat the nations. This vision gives us a fuller picture of His victory and authority.

And the events of Rev 14 (Christ harvesting/the rapture) happen before the events of Rev 19 (not because of chp numbers) do so naturally the descriptions shouldn't match.

 

[Davidpt]

I do not agree, strong delusions pile up on those who refuse Christ and his words so they will not come out of. it I see this daily here on this forum. they know who Christ is and did but they wont listen to his words and do what Christ asked us to do. they prefer the easy way that leads to perdition, its much simpler and requires no effort.

Maybe you don't agree NOSAS is Biblical? I do. And if so, we are never going to be on the same page in that case.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I spoke of the points of tribulation and the return of Jesus, then gave those points correctly as written. The bullet points I gave are mostly scripture, just put together, connection the dots (points). If that is "strange" to you, that's on you.

prove the accuraccy of your bullet points with actual verses from the bible.

And the events of Rev 14 (Christ harvesting/the rapture) happen before the events of Rev 19 (not because of chp numbers) do so naturally the descriptions shouldn't match.

How do you explain it then? what I am certain of and I mean absolutely certain is that he will come on the last day only once as He did say himself, there is no way around it.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Maybe you don't agree NOSAS is Biblical? I do. And if so, we are never going to be on the same page in that case.

I am sorry I an not familiar with NOSAS could you expand a bit, thank you.

 

[ewq1938]

How do you explain it then?

Not sure what you mean, please clarify.

what I am certain of and I mean absolutely certain is that he will come on the last day only once as He did say himself, there is no way around it.

He will come only once more (from heaven to Earth) on the last day of this age. There is another age and a shorter one after that though so each have their own "lkast day" but unrelated to the last day of this age when the second coming happens.

 

[Davidpt]

I am sorry I an not familiar with NOSAS could you expand a bit, thank you.

OSAS means once saved always saved. NOSAS means not once saved always saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 involves a great falling away. One can't fall away from something they were never part of to begin with. Therefore, only the saved can fall away--thus NOSAS. But not everyone falls away, thus OSAS in their case. IOW, both OSAS and NOSAS are true. Some people never fall away---thus OSAS. And some people do fall away---thus NOSAS. Therefore, there is no such thing as--only OSAS is Biblical---or only NOSAS is Biblical. Both are Biblical.

 

[ewq1938]

OSAS means once saved always saved. NOSAS means not once saved always saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 involves a great falling away. One can't fall away from something they were never part of to begin with. Therefore, only the saved can fall away--thus NOSAS. But not everyone falls away, thus OSAS in their case. IOW, both OSAS and NOSAS are true. Some people never fall away---thus OSAS. And some people do fall away---thus NOSAS. Therefore, there is no such thing as--only OSAS is Biblical---or only NOSAS is Biblical. Both are Biblical.

If one saved person loses salvation, then OSAS is not biblical.

 

[Davidpt]

If one saved person loses salvation, then OSAS is not biblical.

If one saved person never loses salvation, then NOSAS is not biblical. Is that how you really want to argue this? All I'm saying is, that OSAS and NOSAS is meaning on an individual basis. That is the perspective one should be looking at it from. Some people OSAS. Other People once saved does not equal always saved if they fall away instead.

 

[Davidpt]

If one saved person loses salvation, then OSAS is not biblical.

In my view salvation is conditional.

1. Premise A: Salvation requires the condition of enduring to the end.

2. Premise B: Some people meet this condition (Outcome 1 = OSAS).

3. Premise C: Some people do not meet this condition (Outcome 2 = NOSAS).

4. Conclusion: Therefore, Outcome 1 results in a person being Once Saved, Always Saved (because they met the condition).

Outcome 2 results in a person being Once Saved, NOT Always Saved (because they broke the condition).

If OSAS is not Biblical, then that means that not one single person once saved remains always saved. That would have to be the logic. NOSAS does not contradict OSAS if NOSAS is also Biblical. Here's the real contradiction---Only OSAS is Biblical, NOSAS isn't---or---only NOSAS is Biblical, OSAS isn't

The Real Contradiction---Only OSAS is Biblical vs. Only NOSAS is Biblical.

Those two statements are a real contradiction because "only" creates a total monopoly. If "only OSAS" is true, then nobody can ever fall away. If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. Therefore, those of the NOSAS camp should not reason things in the same manner that those in the OSAS camp do. Because if you do, look what it means---If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. The OSAS camp argues the opposite and believes what they are arguing--If "only OSAS" is true, then nobody can ever fall away--which is a lie. It's equally a lie--If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. The way to square things then, I have already explained how.

 

[ScottA]

prove the accuraccy of your bullet points with actual verses from the bible.

I am under no obligation to do more (to prove), for the words are not my own, mostly quoted from scripture and already clarified or explained. Does Christ not explain His parables (things given in example)? So, yes, but not all, as not all are given to know. But I have explained--not by my own doing, but by Him who is in me.

Why is this biblical process so hard for those who claim to believe Him who ordered it so, to understand?

 

[ewq1938]

If one saved person never loses salvation, then NOSAS is not biblical. Is that how you really want to argue this? All I'm saying is, that OSAS and NOSAS is meaning on an individual basis. That is the perspective one should be looking at it from.

I don't agree it works that way.

Some people OSAS. Other People once saved does not equal always saved if they fall away instead.

The issue is only Christ was sinless. No other human can be which means sins considered unforgivable can result in a saved person losing salvation. NOSAS is still true if the person managed to repent/be forgiven of their sins AND avoid committing an unforgiveable sin because every saved person is capable of committing a sin of that nature. If it was possible, then NOSAS is true and OSAS is not.


Now, if some people cannot commit an unforgiveable sin after being saved and cannot under any circumstances loose their salvation then OSAS is true for any such person. I don't believe this type of person exists though.

 

[rmb60]

I don't agree it works that way.



The issue is only Christ was sinless. No other human can be which means sins considered unforgivable can result in a saved person losing salvation. NOSAS is still true if the person managed to repent/be forgiven of their sins AND avoid committing an unforgiveable sin because every saved person is capable of committing a sin of that nature. If it was possible, then NOSAS is true and OSAS is not.


Now, if some people cannot commit an unforgiveable sin after being saved and cannot under any circumstances loose their salvation then OSAS is true for any such person. I don't believe this type of person exists though.

There are differing opinions yet currently what according to you is the unforgivable sin?

 

[TribulationSigns]

In my view salvation is conditional.

1. Premise A: Salvation requires the condition of enduring to the end.

2. Premise B: Some people meet this condition (Outcome 1 = OSAS).

3. Premise C: Some people do not meet this condition (Outcome 2 = NOSAS).

4. Conclusion: Therefore, Outcome 1 results in a person being Once Saved, Always Saved (because they met the condition).

Outcome 2 results in a person being Once Saved, NOT Always Saved (because they broke the condition).

If OSAS is not Biblical, then that means that not one single person once saved remains always saved. That would have to be the logic. NOSAS does not contradict OSAS if NOSAS is also Biblical. Here's the real contradiction---Only OSAS is Biblical, NOSAS isn't---or---only NOSAS is Biblical, OSAS isn't

The Real Contradiction---Only OSAS is Biblical vs. Only NOSAS is Biblical.

Those two statements are a real contradiction because "only" creates a total monopoly. If "only OSAS" is true, then nobody can ever fall away. If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. Therefore, those of the NOSAS camp should not reason things in the same manner that those in the OSAS camp do. Because if you do, look what it means---If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. The OSAS camp argues the opposite and believes what they are arguing--If "only OSAS" is true, then nobody can ever fall away--which is a lie. It's equally a lie--If "only NOSAS" is true, then nobody can ever remain permanently saved. The way to square things then, I have already explained how.

Not a single verse of Scripture quoted here. Interesting!