Are you not a sinner, what right does a sinner have to condemn another sinner of sinHow about a sinner who claims to be born of God? What kind of a liar are they when they lie to themselves and convince themselves their own lies are true?
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Are you not a sinner, what right does a sinner have to condemn another sinner of sinHow about a sinner who claims to be born of God? What kind of a liar are they when they lie to themselves and convince themselves their own lies are true?
Paul is referencing secular society. He's telling us to obey the laws that they put forth.
Executing wrath with a sword...today we call it the death penalty.
I'm thinking in Paul's day, they didn't have lethal injection.
Was it evil to execute Ted Bundy? What about John Wayne Gacy? Aileen Wuornos? You have to remember Paul is referencing secular society and they are not bond by our beliefs. They are free to establish their own laws and punishments and the death penalty is something they set up to deal with their worst offenders.
God has a hand in world governments. He influences world events. He puts people in positions that will accomplish His Will. When Paul calls these people "God's ministers", he's not saying they are righteous and holy. He's simply stating they were put there by God to accomplish His will.
That's exactly what I think.
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if we are referencing the world, yes, but even you could provide a spiritual definition for that, surely.Executing wrath with a sword...today we call it the death penalty.
You're making this personal. Don't do that.If one of your serial killers was before you and you could kill them for their sins, would you? You may want to keep Matthew 18 verse 35 in mind while you answer: 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
You're making this personal. Don't do that.
I don't have any serial killers and it's not up to me to kill people for their sins.
You said Paul lied. Show me. Using the passage from 1 Samuel and the one from Romans. Put'em side by side and point out the lies without injecting your own opinion.
Can you do that?
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As I told you before, I don't work for the state.Why are you afraid to answer? If they are ministers of God, who put others to death for their sins, then why won't you affirm you will kill them?
You're correct. Non-believers don't recognize Jesus as King of Kings, Lord of Lords.And I guess Jesus is not the King of kings: if they are not subject to obeying Jesus's teachings.
I appreciate your post and the angle you are using for the word sword. But here is a number of concerns I have with the text. First, Paul states that Gentile rulers are ministers/servants of God, when clearly God states that by asking for a king, the children of Israel have rejected God: that he should not rule over them.
So Paul's statement, that they are ministers/servants of God, is false. If the kings represented God as God's servants, then God would be ruling over the children of Israel through kings just as he did through his servants the prophets: but this is clearly not the case.
Paul also states, if you do good you will receive praise from rulers and this also is not true: just ask the thousands of early Christians that were thrown to the lions, or the Apostles, which most were killed by said rulers or ask Christ, also killed by an earthly ruler. It appears as if Paul is appealing to Caesar himself: when he penned the text he did in Romans 13.
Are you not a sinner, what right does a sinner have to condemn another sinner of sin
Please understand that there is always at least two if not more ways to interpret what we read. There is the interpretation which comes from the carnal mind and the interpretation which comes from the "mind of Christ".
The carnal minded interpretation generally concentrates on outward appearances and tends to take a lot of things literally. It likes to claim that "X" applied only to the people in the story at the time and no longer applies today. It likes to find things which appear to contradict each other and claim that something must be wrong due to the apparent contradictions. It is incapable of reconciling those apparent contradictions due to biases and preconceived ideas.
However, we need to remember that things are not always what they appear to be on outward appearances and look deeper.
"The mind of Christ" understands that the TRUTH is eternal and it applies to all generations yesterday today and forever, no special treatment to anyone.
"The mind of Christ" also looks deeper than just the superficial surface. It looks to the heart of the matter and looks at eternal principles. Therefore when you read bible stories, you need to look for both ways of interpreting them, ie the carnal minded aspects of outward appearances as well as the Spiritual aspects which are deeper underlying eternal principles and those principles apply to all generations for all eternity.
Seek and you will find.
Very good response by skyangel.... "I doubt Paul is referring to a literal sword. Look at Eph 6:17 and Hebrews 4:12 and you might understand it is referring to the sword of the spirit which is the word of God. "
One needs to know the Bible holistically or one can easily set up contradictions where there arent any. The whole of the Bible is about God's love, but it only says 'God is love' once.
You're correct. Non-believers don't recognize Jesus as King of Kings, Lord of Lords.
As I told you before, I don't work for the state.
And when the state puts a person to death, it's for the crimes they commit, not for their sins against God.
You claim Paul is a liar. Show me where that's true. You quoted the passages in question so it should be quite easy to simply point out the errors.
Can you do that?
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You're avoiding the topic.You are missing the point
Jesus really said all that?Jesus stated: the father gave me a commandment of what I should say and speak, and so how can men transgress God's teachings on forgiveness and be ministers of God seeing they are violating the teachings of Christ?
Yup pretty much here it is verbatim: 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.Jesus really said all that?
You're avoiding the topic.