And the truth shall set you free...

[skyangel]

i'm curious then at what point you believe Scripture became fiction, if you got that far?

That is like asking you at what point you believe Santa became a fictional character instead of believing a magic man with flying reindeer ever existed.
The answer is as soon as I was mature enough to handle and accept the Truth and as soon as I did, I became enlightened.

 

[skyangel]

No, really where do you think men come up with these ingenious creations. Was it God that got upset with teh angels who where teaching men things we shoudnt know?? Still happening to day. Teh devil deals in death and destruction and all new technonlogy paths are leading us right there.

It makes no difference what people do in life, physical Life always ends in death. Death is a natural part of Life and no devil has anything to do with it.
The so called "devil" is nothing but an anthropomorphism of human lusts.
The "tempter" is your own lusts.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Believers ought to grow up and start taking responsibility for their own actions and lusts instead of blaming a fictional character named Satan or Devil.
However, those who need a scapegoat will always hang on to their scapegoat like an insecure child hangs on to a security blanket. Such is the nature of children.
The fact is if you never knew what evil was you would also never know what good was. In reality most people can't tell the difference between good and evil half the time anyway. If they could, they would not be deceived by so many false doctrines.
It's not knowledge that is harmful. It is how people choose to use it that harms them.

 

[mjrhealth]

Believers ought to grow up and start taking responsibility for their own actions and lusts instead of blaming a fictional character named Satan or Devil.
However, those who need a scapegoat will always hang on to their scapegoat like an insecure child hangs on to a security blanket. Such is the nature of children.
The fact is if you never knew what evil was you would also never know what good was. In reality most people can't tell the difference between good and evil half the time anyway. If they could, they would not be deceived by so many false doctrines.
It's not knowledge that is harmful. It is how people choose to use it that harms them

Yes they should but they dont. if there is nothing to be saved from than one need no saviour. There is a devil, and I have met him, i am not at all suprised that he deceives so many, he is nothing like the dude all red with the pitch fork, and I have also met Christ who far surpasses all that I though he could be. What was it once quoted in a move, teh greatest deception ever created was for teh devil to convince the world he doesnt exist, mind you most christians struggle wtih Jesus.

Mind you dont blame the devil for anything we all have choice.

 

[skyangel]

Yes they should but they dont. if there is nothing to be saved from than one need no saviour. There is a devil, and I have met him, i am not at all suprised that he deceives so many, he is nothing like the dude all red with the pitch fork, and I have also met Christ who far surpasses all that I though he could be. What was it once quoted in a move, teh greatest deception ever created was for teh devil to convince the world he doesnt exist, mind you most christians struggle wtih Jesus.

The Jesus character merely represents the spirit of goodness in all people and the devil merely represents the spirit of evil in them all.
The simple lesson in the story is that evil must die for goodness to reign and YOU (All humans) have been given the power to overcome the evil within yourself. The evil aspects of human nature will reign within the individuals own heart and mind till such a time as they learn to overcome it with their own inner spirit of goodness. No invisible characters will help anyone do that if people never follow the example of the fictional characters they so admire and keep blaming an evil fictional character for their weaknesses.

 

[mjrhealth]

No invisible characters will help anyone

So you are saving youself, bit hard.

 

[bbyrd009]

That is like asking you at what point you believe Santa became a fictional character instead of believing a magic man with flying reindeer ever existed.
The answer is as soon as I was mature enough to handle and accept the Truth and as soon as I did, I became enlightened.

well, my meaning is that you quote Scripture in other places, so how are you comfortable doing both?

 

[bbyrd009]

No invisible characters will help anyone do that if people never follow the example of the fictional characters they so admire and keep blaming an evil fictional character for their weaknesses.

"Scapegoat" serves a needed purpose though, psychological crutch that it may be, at it seems to me that you will just alienate people by insisting that Jesus never existed, when you know Christ exists as spirit, and you cannot prove that Jesus did not exist anyway.

So i might agree that once you get the point the historical accuracy becomes irrelevant for the most part, but you are talking to believers who have been raised to revere the Bible, and read It as an accurate history, even if granted most are not interested in what "the number of a man" is telling them.

Mythology conveys essential truths across generations, and it seems to me that you are just deconstructing mythology in the same manner that believers do to Genesis, and i don't see how this will serve your purpose.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you are saving youself, bit hard.

i think we have a pretty poor concept of "being saved" anyway, and we are told to seek our own salvation, and i even get the rejection of Jesus-cult worship that is so prevalent today, but imo you are not going to reach people who have been raised from the cradle accepting the Bible as history by opening with "Jesus never existed," regardless of your grasp of the Spirit.

i mean granted 1John has problems, but denying that Christ walked the earth, what is the point?

 

[skyangel]

Yes they should but they dont. if there is nothing to be saved from than one need no saviour. There is a devil, and I have met him, i am not at all suprised that he deceives so many, he is nothing like the dude all red with the pitch fork, and I have also met Christ who far surpasses all that I though he could be. What was it once quoted in a move, teh greatest deception ever created was for teh devil to convince the world he doesnt exist, mind you most christians struggle wtih Jesus.

Mind you dont blame the devil for anything we all have choice.

Believers have plenty to be saved from. Their own false doctrines, self deceptions and idolatry is just a beginning of the things they need saving from. The only "devil" that exists is the one that people see in the mirror every day. Humans are their own worst enemies who are constantly deceiving themselves and believing the delusions of their own carnal minds. People simply need to learn to overcome the evil within themselves through the goodness within themselves and overcome the immaturity (son) within themselves through the maturity( Father) within.
It is about sacrificing the immaturity (inner son) so the immaturity ( son) can become mature (the Father)

 

[skyangel]

So you are saving youself, bit hard.

Who saved Jesus and from what was he saved?

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I am the light of the world.
Who or what are you ?

 

[skyangel]

well, my meaning is that you quote Scripture in other places, so how are you comfortable doing both?

Because both are relevant in a story which uses fictional characters to convey a relevant message which can be applied to all generations for all eternity.
It is not the characters in the story who save or destroy anyone. It is the message about overcoming evil through righteousness which saves those who actually put the principle into practise.
It is the acceptance of Truth which sets people free from lies and deceptions and only Truth is capable of doing that but it all depends on the ACCEPTANCE of it. Those who do not accept it will always remain in darkness and deception for that is the simple consequence of rejecting Truth. It is not a punishment of any kind from some angry invisible character. It is just a consequence like remaining in darkness is a consequence of rejecting and avoiding Light.

 

[skyangel]

"Scapegoat" serves a needed purpose though, psychological crutch that it may be, at it seems to me that you will just alienate people by insisting that Jesus never existed, when you know Christ exists as spirit, and you cannot prove that Jesus did not exist anyway.

So i might agree that once you get the point the historical accuracy becomes irrelevant for the most part, but you are talking to believers who have been raised to revere the Bible, and read It as an accurate history, even if granted most are not interested in what "the number of a man" is telling them.

Mythology conveys essential truths across generations, and it seems to me that you are just deconstructing mythology in the same manner that believers do to Genesis, and i don't see how this will serve your purpose.

No one can actually prove he existed in reality either. As for alienating people, that is simply part of life. The character Jesus himself alienated people in the story anyway. Truth will always be alienated by those who reject it.
The only way to get a child to believe that the magical Santa never existed is to insist on the Truth that he never existed. If they never accept that Truth, they will never mentally mature but will always believe in fictional characters.
The exact same principles applies to a belief in invisible gods in the form of men with supernatural powers.
No supernatural gods are real. All of them are mythical characters but all of them including the Greek and Hebrew myths teach lessons and principles which can be applies to human life.
Those who sincerely want to know the Truth will eventually find it and know it. Those who are happy in their fantasy world and mental immaturity and don't want to change, will remain that way. It makes no difference to me what they choose but becoming mentally mature will make a world of difference to those who chose to put away childish beliefs.

Deconstructing mythology helps people understand the Truth of the principles conveyed in a story and gives them the ability to put those principles into action in their own lives instead of idolising the characters in a story while feeling helpless to do the same "miracles" the characters did.
It is like a child who learns the principles of giving in secret through the Santa myth. They eventually learn to "BE" Santa as they come to the realisation that the "magic man" at the North Pole does not exist. It would be a sad thing if all the adults in the world still believed in a magic man at the North Pole.
It is just as sad to see so many believers still believing in mythical gods and thinking those gods once walked the Earth in physical bodies and did physical miracles.
Obviously they have not let the "mind of Christ" be in them. If they did, they would realise who they were instead of believing they will remain sinners till the day they physically die.

 

[skyangel]

i think we have a pretty poor concept of "being saved" anyway, and we are told to seek our own salvation, and i even get the rejection of Jesus-cult worship that is so prevalent today, but imo you are not going to reach people who have been raised from the cradle accepting the Bible as history by opening with "Jesus never existed," regardless of your grasp of the Spirit.

i mean granted 1John has problems, but denying that Christ walked the earth, what is the point?

The point is to get immature minds to consider becoming mature instead of idolising a mythical character in a story and thinking that mythical character will save them from anything. He simply won't unless they follow the example set by the character. It's not about glorifying or idolising the man but it's all about living the example he set.
I am not denying that the SPIRIT of Christ walked and still walks the Earth. I am denying that a physical man with supernatural powers to heal people by simply telling them to "be healed" ever walked the Earth.

The point is to get people to understand that the Christ who walks the Earth is a SPIRIT which is in ALL people in the flesh, not just in one individual way back in history thousands of years ago.
The Spirit of LIFE walks the Earth in the flesh today. It is in ALL Living things for without the Spirit of LIFE there simply is no life at all.
When we look at LIFE we see the Spirit of Life in the flesh on Earth at all times in the past present and future and whatever we do and say to anyone on this planet, we do and say it to the Spirit of Life in the flesh on Earth (God)
Matt 25:34-46

 

[mjrhealth]

I am the light of the world.
Who or what are you ?

I am not the light of teh World Jesus is, are you too stealing His authority.

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

If theer is a day when I can be a light like Him than I thank Him that it was by Him that it be made so,

 

[Truth]

Our Savior was Sinless!!! He did not break any of the 614 commandments in the Torah {Law}. What He Did was to Confront the Pharisees about their man made rules and regulations, doctrines, precepts, derived from their false claim that Moses passed down the Oral Torah to them, and them alone, giving them this superior ability to interrupt the Scriptures. and by the way Yeshua [Jesus] only refuted their man made laws with the Law. example 1- why do your disciples transgress the law, by not washing their hands before eating bread? Jesus replied! why do you transgress the commandments by your traditions. try to find the commandment to wash hands for any reason in the Torah {law}. when he cleared the Temple Mount of the sellers and money changers, it was forbidden to have venders at the Temple. Righteous Judgement, Not Sin, when He Healed the lame man at the pool where the waters would be troubled, He did this in front of Many Pharisees. He said arise pick up your mat [Bed] and walk, he was breaking the man made law of the Arub, you couldn't carry anything on the Sabbath, unless you took some of your belongings from your house and set them a Sabbath days journey from home, and from that point you could set something else another Sabbath days journey from there and so on. But this man could not keep this so called law of the Pharisees because he was Lame the day before, therefore he was according to them doing what is not Lawful. And this Miracle was God Verifying that Jesus was the Authority,if you wil just look at these confrontations He had they are Him refuting the Pharisees, correcting them, and if they were offended well that to bad, Many people are offended with the truth especially if it takes away their Authority, their elevated status. He came as all other Prophets before Him to restore the people to their Covenant, why do you think that there was so many, going out to repent in the Jordan River with John the Immerser. they had no clue about the Savior at that time, even Yeshua {Jesus } came to be Baptized. OUR SAVIOR WAS SINLESS, He kept the Torah {Law } Blameless. He is Going to Judge the World without bias because He Overcame the World Blameless, He was tested with like temptations as we are! without Sin.

 

[Truth]

Here's how I explained it a few pages back.

The New Testament didn't exist but the scriptures did. The scriptures that are being twisted in 2 Peter 3:16 are Paul's. Notice what it says. Paul's teaching's are hard to understand and people who lack understanding twist his teaching's to their own destruction as they do the rest of the scriptures. "The rest of the scriptures" being the Old Testament and what was completed of the future New Testament.

2 Peter 3
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


Do you see it?

"As they do also" is the key to understanding that Paul's writings were considered scripture.

I don't know at what time that The Gospels and Epistles, from the Authors like Paul, Peter, John ext-became Scripture. At the time of there Inception they were letters of encouragement, correction, and admonition. the reason that Paul's teachings were hard understand was he was always referring to the old Testament. Paul was THE Scholar of the Torah in His day, Paul could quote the 5 books of Moses word for word, memorized. the Gentiles were not raised up in the Scriptures from childhood as the Jewish people, thus untaught and unstable, no foundation in the Scriptures. 2nd Timothy chapt 3 vers 14 - 16 - Paul say's to Timothy! " But you must continue in the thing's which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15- and that from your childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto Salvation! through Faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16- "All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God, and is Profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in Righteousness. We are not talking about New Testament Scripture here. at what point in time did these letters become more than just letters to small groups scattered throughout East Asia, the Foundation of the Faith is the old Testament as it is Profitable For { read above} Paul was a walking Torah Scroll who studied under Gamaliel the most renowned Torah teacher in the History of Israel.
Does this help any?
.

The New Testament didn't exist but the scriptures did. The scriptures that are being twisted in 2 Peter 3:16 are Paul's. Notice what it says. Paul's teaching's are hard to understand and people who lack understanding twist his teaching's to their own destruction as they do the rest of the scriptures. "The rest of the scriptures" being the Old Testament and what was completed of the future New Testament.

 

[DPMartin]

That is like asking you at what point you believe Santa became a fictional character instead of believing a magic man with flying reindeer ever existed.
The answer is as soon as I was mature enough to handle and accept the Truth and as soon as I did, I became enlightened.

what so called truth is that? there's a poster on this thread that is called truth, is that who or what you believe? or is it something you are happy to believe? no matter this is the Christian section and this section is about Christians sharing in Christian beliefs.

you can go to the non-Christian section of this site and promote your non-Christian beliefs if you like.

 

[bbyrd009]

He did not break any of the 614 commandments in the Torah {Law}.

imo He deliberately blasphemed, and furthermore knew that He would be accused by the keepers of the Law, so i'm not sure how accurate that is wadr.

 

[Truth]

well, if you believe that Jesus blasphemed deliberately,then that would be willful Sin,knowing that is like premeditated, therefore Jesus is unqualified to be the sinless sacrifice on the Cross! and therefore we are all up a creek. But I am assured by the Grace of God that the Scriptures are True, and that Jesus paid the Price for all sin being sinless.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, if you believe that Jesus blasphemed deliberately,then that would be willful Sin,knowing that is like premeditated, therefore Jesus is unqualified to be the sinless sacrifice on the Cross! and therefore we are all up a creek. But I am assured by the Grace of God that the Scriptures are True, and that Jesus paid the Price for all sin being sinless.

ha well i doubt Christ blasphemed God lol, so i would restate that to say that He knew what He was saying would be considered blasphemy.