Rapture Debate.

[skyangel]

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years.

Yes the lights in the sky are to signify Time, days and years, on Earth, not to signify any return of Christ.
People on Earth use those lights to keep track of time and events like seasons which continue to repeat themselves. From those repetitive cycles we learn that there are physical cycles and that which was shall be again and there is no new thing under the sun.
The same principle applies in spiritual cycles.

1 John 2:18-19 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

You misquoted 1 John 4:3 above.
KJV.. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Now I ask you, do you believe that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh on Earth today and is HERE RIGHT NOW in the flesh? OR are you one of the people who believe he WAS once on Earth in the flesh, IS NOT on Earth in the flesh today but one day in the unknown future will arrive on Earth in the flesh again?

If you believe he is here on Earth in the flesh today, why are you waiting for him to arrive in the flesh at some future time?
If you do not believe he IS COME on Earth in the flesh today, you are of antichrist according to 1 John 4:3

Christ is the SAME yesterday Today and forever. Heb 13:8
He was on Earth in the flesh "yesterday", IS still on Earth in the flesh today the SAME as he was in the past and will be on Earth in the flesh tomorrow and all future tomorrows the SAME as he IS today.
I sincerely hope that one day your eyes will be opened and you will see and know that Truth.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes the lights in the sky are to signify Time, days and years, on Earth, not to signify any return of Christ.

The lights in the sky... where do you think Rev 12:1-5 takes place.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Rev 15:1-2 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. 2And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name. They held harps given them by God

No real physical person has ever risen from a physical grave after being buried three or more days and they never will. To beleive such things ever happened in reality is a religious fantasy. That character is fictional and never existed.

1 Cor 15:12-19 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

 

[eldios]

So why are you preaching non-osas. You know better than that.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

coming from a handle that thinks Rom 10:9 is a lie..

There are many lies by religious heathens who wrote and produced the New Testament. Christians would rather believe in those lies then listen to the gospel of God being preached to them by a trusted servant.

 

[skyangel]

The lights in the sky... where do you think Rev 12:1-5 takes place.

Obviously in heaven but not in the literal sky where the literal sun and stars are.
Rev is not talking about being clothed with a literal sun or having literal stars on your head.
The kingdom of heaven is within you. Therefore all of revelation is about things that go on within you as the spirit wars against the flesh.

1 Cor 15:12-19 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Some can say there is no resurrection of the dead because they are referring to the physically dead state from which there is no resurrection because the flesh which was made from dust will always return to dust as the bible says.
Christ is an immortal spirit so how can an immortal spirit be resurrected from the dead if it cannot physically die in the first place?
The story of resurrection of Jesus is a parable about being resurrected from the state of sin and death into a state of being Lord over sin with all authority over sin and death. It is a spiritual example for spiritual people to follow. The resurrection is a spiritual resurrection never a physical one.
Christ became sin in the story ( 2 Cor 5:21) and was resurrected from the "sinful state" into a state of righteousness without sin. If you notice in the story, no one who condemned him as a sinner ever saw him after his resurrection. Only his disciples saw him. Others told stories about his disciples stealing the body because they never saw his body again in any state.
Christ is TRUTH. Many people think they live in Christ but they are actually living in a false truth and idolising a man. They worship a man instead of worshipping the TRUTH itself. TRUTH is not a man. They crucify TRUTH daily as they continue to reject it in favour of the man they idolize. They turn the TRUTH ( Christ) into a LIE ( liar) and by so doing they spiritually "kill" or crucify Truth but the TRUTH never really dies any place except in the hearts of those who reject it/him. However, the Truth can always rise again or "return" to those hearts who crucified it, if and when they repent of their unbelief.

As for futile faith, according to many Christians they are still in their sins anyway in spite of their belief that Christ set them free from sin. They continue to confess how they are sinners instead of understanding they are sin free IF Christ took away their sins and IF they have been CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. If they are not sin free then obviously no one took away their sins or no one crucified them with their Christ yet.
How many are standing in line to be crucified with their false Christ today?

 

[n2thelight]

What day is being spoken of in the below verse?

Isaiah 25:9 "And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

No, the church and tribulation saints are completely separate from each other. The church are those who have come to faith in Jesus Christ during the Grace period in which we're in now, Rom 10:9. Tribulation saints are those who have come to faith after rapture inside Daniels 70th week, Rev 12:17.

1 Peter 4:17-19 testifies that God will judge His House first. He will do a good job of keeping the souls of those saints left behind that shall suffer the fire coming on the earth & the great tribulation as a result.

Paul warned that there is a dire consequence for unrepentant believers other than the loss of crowns.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Jesus mentioned a believer becoming a castaway for not being found abiding in His word as His disciple. Note verse 6 below.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Note the cutting off of the believer not prepared to meet the Lord in verse 46 below at the pre trib rapture event as they will have their portions with unbelievers. Do note that the saints left behind are still His servants as they will be receiving stripes from Him.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Explain these references above if you really believe that God is not going to judge His House at the pre trib rapture event by excommunicating those still in iniquity from the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes.

I know that most believers will say that those that professed Him but were left behind were never saved as per Matthew 7:21-23, but that reference was in relation to false prophets coming in, leading many astray starting from Matthew 7:13-27. Jesus will deal with the falling away from the faith which is a separate event from when He comes back as King of kings to deal with that son of perdition. This judgment on the House of God first because the Good Shepherd will restore the wayward unrepentant saints back to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I hope that one day you stop worshipping a man and waiting for that idol of yours to arrive on Earth in a physical body. I sincerely hope you one day receive the revelation that God is not a man, neither the son of man. Christ is not confined to an individual body.

And yet man was created in the image of God, go figure.

Who is the Lord prophesied in the O.T. below that touched down with His feet on the Mount of Oilives?

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Symbolic? Nope.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Scripture are used to reprove false teachings. Hope you are growing in the knowledge of Him by His words and not another words.

The Christ which you are hoping will arrive in literal clouds one day is a figment of your imagination and a product of false doctrines.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The True Christ is already on Earth in the flesh and always has been and always will be.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

How many Christians confess that Christ "IS COME" in the flesh present tense, not just did come, past tense, or will come again one day future tense.. but IS COME NOW present tense?...
Those who do not believe or confess that Christ IS COME NOW Present tense are not of God according to scripture but are antichrist even if they do preach Christ. The Christ they preach is a false Christ who once was on Earth in the flesh but is not on Earth in the flesh today, yet will come again at some future time but they have no clue when.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I am confessing that Christ IS COME in the flesh in the past, IS PRESENT in the flesh on Earth NOW and will always be present on Earth in the future as he returns with every tomorrow just as the LIGHT which shines from the East to the West returns every day.
Christ is the SAME Yesterday Today and Forever. He never did anything in the past that he is not doing today and will not continue to do in future. That includes revealing himself in the flesh to those who want to know the TRUTH and want to see it in the flesh daily.
The rest are blind and of the world which will see him NO MORE, not ever again in spite of them staring the TRUTH in the flesh daily.
Those blind leaders of the blind do not recognise Christ in the flesh on Earth today at all and never will as long as they continue to follow their false Christ.

As much as Paul testified of His appearing in the clouds as the Bridegroom, Paul did testify that the examination of our faith is that Jesus Christ is in us. That is how He is keeping His promise in being with us always while being in Heaven preparing a place for abiding brides of Christ in the Father's mansion. That is why He said all power has been given unto Him before His ascension.

Your reference of 1 John 4:2 and what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13:5 is referring to the apostasy that exists today when they say that the Spirit of Christ is there or here, coming with signs and lying wonders, misleading believers into thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ) by a sensational sign in the flesh; even the sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation but is the supernatural tongue as found in the world ( 1 John 4:5-6 & Isaiah 8:19 ) as vain and profane babbling ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Timothy 2:15-16,24-26 ).

 

[Heb 13:8]

There are many lies by religious heathens who wrote and produced the New Testament. Christians would rather believe in those lies then listen to the gospel of God being preached to them by a trusted servant.

All 66 books are God-breathed eldios. I suggest you pray about it, since you're knee deep in the occult or whatever you worship.

Obviously in heaven but not in the literal sky where the literal sun and stars are.

The heaven that Rev 12:1-5 is speaking of is in space skyangel, and yes where the sun, moon, planets and stars reside. Why do you think we can track it on Stellarium. lol

Rev is not talking about being clothed with a literal sun or having literal stars on your head.

Actually it does. This sign plays out in the constellation Virgo on 9/23/17.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

The story of resurrection of Jesus is a parable

and I suppose our salvation in Christ is a parable too? lol

Rom 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Jesus mentioned a believer becoming a castaway for not being found abiding in His word as His disciple. Note verse 6 below.

Paul is referring to being a castaway by men, not God.

1 Cor 9:27 Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - I myself should be a castaway, or rejected, or disapproved of; that is, by men: the apostle's concern is, lest he should do anything that might bring a reproach on the Gospel; lest some corruption of his nature or other should break out, and thereby his ministry be justly blamed, and be brought under contempt; and so he be rejected and disapproved of by men, and become useless as a preacher: not that he feared he should become a reprobate, as the word is opposed to an elect person; or that he should be a castaway eternally, or be everlastingly damned; for he knew in whom he had believed, and was persuaded of his interest in the love of God, and that he was a chosen vessel of salvation, that could not be eternally lost: though supposing that this is his sense, and these his fears and concern, it follows not as neither that he was, so neither that he could be a lost and damned person: the fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:1-17 is an allegory. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31.

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

..is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets. Jesus comes like a thief to nonbelievers, Matt 24:37-41. Believers will know when that day comes, 1 Thess 5:4-11.

Matthew 7:21-23,

..is referring to Jesus day before He died.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Paul is referring to being a castaway by men, not God.

When do you receive the rewards of your crowns from the Lord? In Heaven. Then the loss of crowns cannot be the only consequence for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ. You can become a castaway; a reprobate; a disqualified guest to attend the Marriage Supper.

1 Cor 9:27 Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - I myself should be a castaway, or rejected, or disapproved of; that is, by men: the apostle's concern is, lest he should do anything that might bring a reproach on the Gospel; lest some corruption of his nature or other should break out, and thereby his ministry be justly blamed, and be brought under contempt; and so he be rejected and disapproved of by men, and become useless as a preacher: not that he feared he should become a reprobate, as the word is opposed to an elect person; or that he should be a castaway eternally, or be everlastingly damned; for he knew in whom he had believed, and was persuaded of his interest in the love of God, and that he was a chosen vessel of salvation, that could not be eternally lost: though supposing that this is his sense, and these his fears and concern, it follows not as neither that he was, so neither that he could be a lost and damned person: the fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness.

Stop referring to man's wisdom and stick to His words. Paul talks about the race again in Hebrews 12 chapter. It is the Father that chastens every child He receives; and He will use the great tribulation to do it.

John 15:1-17 is an allegory. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31.

Prove it as an allegory. What is Jesus talking about that it is an allegory about?

..is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets. Jesus comes like a thief to nonbelievers, Matt 24:37-41. Believers will know when that day comes, 1 Thess 5:4-11.

They will know when it is at the door, but not the day nor the hour.

..is referring to Jesus day before He died.

Compare Matthew 7:13-27 with Luke 13:24-30 and you will see that Jesus is referring to a sitting down with O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper in Luke 13:28 after having thrust out those that have gone astray that had not repented yet.

If you wish for people to see your teachings as based in scripture, then you have to address the scripture that speaks against one point in your teaching as not fully correct and that is God will be judging His House first at the pre trib rapture event. There will be a partial rapture, leaving those unrepentant wayward saints behind... unless they repent in time by His grace & by His help before the Bridegroom comes.

 

[skyangel]

And yet man was created in the image of God, go figure.

It is interesting to note that the word Man or Adam is plural and refers to all mankind of the past present and future. It does not just refer to one man. It is also interesting to note that that mankind is created with a mortal body of flesh which is constantly passing away in the process of change and growth. The flesh changes every day as the old passes away and is replaced with the new, till it ultimately changes into dust. The flesh comes first according to the story and then the Spirit comes into the flesh.
Therefore if mankind who is created in the image of God, is flesh and spirit, don't you think God must also be flesh and spirit and have a mortal and visible aspect as well as an immortal and invisible aspect at all times on Earth and in Heaven? If not, then mankind is not created in the image of God at all but has something called mortality which God does not have.
Think about that.
You (plural) are gods ( Psalm 82:6) and when you realise that you might understand that when you physically see the corporate body made of gods on Earth, you are actually seeing God or Christ who is not a single person but is a body of many members (gods) who are all perfectly visible in the flesh on Earth.
Rom 12:5, 1 Cor 6:15, 1 Cor 12:12, 1 Cor 12:27

 

[ScottA]

So there is a waiting for those saints under the altar, even though they are with the Lord.

Time does not tick in the timeless kingdom of God.

 

[ScottA]

The firstfruits will be liken unto angels that can never die and will not marry. They will have a place in the city of God that comes down from Heaven. They will testify to the works of the Lord in being His disciples as the crowns they wear are His crowning achievements in them.

There is no "will be"...it is finished.

 

[skyangel]

Who is the Lord prophesied in the O.T. below that touched down with His feet on the Mount of Oilives?

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Symbolic? Nope.

It is really sad that you cannot see or understand the symbolism in it. The reason you cannot is because you simply refuse to believe there is any symbolic or spiritual meaning to it. You obviously need a revelation of the day of the Lord being one eternal day that has no beginning or end. It includes every day on Earth for all eternity. Take time to consider that fact very carefully.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Obviously you are not with the Lord yet since you are waiting for him to arrive in literal air or sky or clouds. Obviously you are blind to the symbolism and hidden treasures in scripture but I understand why you are blind to these things.

As much as Paul testified of His appearing in the clouds as the Bridegroom, Paul did testify that the examination of our faith is that Jesus Christ is in us. That is how He is keeping His promise in being with us always while being in Heaven preparing a place for abiding brides of Christ in the Father's mansion. That is why He said all power has been given unto Him before His ascension.

Your reference of 1 John 4:2 and what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13:5 is referring to the apostasy that exists today when they say that the Spirit of Christ is there or here, coming with signs and lying wonders, misleading believers into thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ) by a sensational sign in the flesh; even the sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation but is the supernatural tongue as found in the world ( 1 John 4:5-6 & Isaiah 8:19 ) as vain and profane babbling ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Timothy 2:15-16,24-26 ).

If Jesus Christ was IN YOU, you would not be waiting for him to arrive in the flesh in literal clouds because you would understand that the flesh he is already in on this Earth is YOUR PHYSICAL FLESH. Obviously you have not handed that physical flesh over to him yet or you would no longer be struggling with any sin in it since the Spirit of God and the mind of Christ would be in control of it instead of you and your carnal mind.
It is also interesting to note that no unbelievers or anyone outside the "church" do any signs or wonders. It is the church, the professing believers, that do these lying signs and wonders and claims that they have healing gifts etc to physically heal people by "faith". It is the church who claims Christ is "here" or "there" in a particular location on the planet because that location is having a "revival" or something.
The false teachers and antichrists are in the church preaching that Christ is only here on Earth in Spirit but not in flesh today and they are always waiting for him to arrive in the flesh one day as an individual man in the sky because they idolise an individual man as God. They worship a false Christ and they lead people astray as they entice and seduce them into their churches with false promises of physical healing and physical wealth and all kinds of false hopes including the hope that they will see a physical man return in the physical clouds in their lifetime.

 

[eldios]

All 66 books are God-breathed eldios. I suggest you pray about it, since you're knee deep in the occult or whatever you worship.

Everything we experience comes from God but there are three sets of information used to give us life in this temporary generation. Most of the New Testament was written by religious people who have never heard the voice of God or testified to His knowledge called Christ. If you rely on the New Testament, you will be thoroughly deceived by those religious people who hate the Truth.

 

[eldios]

It is really sad that you cannot see or understand the symbolism in it. The reason you cannot is because you simply refuse to believe there is any symbolic or spiritual meaning to it. You obviously need a revelation of the day of the Lord being one eternal day that has no beginning or end. It includes every day on Earth for all eternity. Take time to consider that fact very carefully.

What's even more sad are those God chose to get some knowledge but they turn into very arrogant false teachers who will not listen to the rest of the story in the gospel of God that us servants preach to God's chosen believers.

 

[skyangel]

The heaven that Rev 12:1-5 is speaking of is in space skyangel, and yes where the sun, moon, planets and stars reside. Why do you think we can track it on Stellarium. lol

Track whatever you want out in space but if you think any "signs" out there mean that any individual with supernatural powers will return to Earth in literal clouds on any particular date in the future you are self deceived and obviously don't want to face the Truth. You will however be forced to face the Truth on the day you have on your calendar and you will be forced to acknowledge that I was right and you were wrong when no one appears in the literal sky in literal clouds and never will.
Heaven is within you. I hope one day you will see the kingdom of God within you instead of waiting for it to arrive outside of you.

and I suppose our salvation in Christ is a parable too? lol

Salvation is about saved from your own worldliness and carnal mindedness. It is about having a change of mind and heart from living in darkness to living in LIGHT which is all about revelation. It is about being saved from ignorance and false doctrines and the worship of idols and coming into the knowledge of God. It is about knowing what that God really is WITHIN YOU and how that God manifests in the flesh on Earth every day through all living things not just through people.
The story of the crucifixion is part of the example we need to follow. It is an example about crucifying the fleshly nature and carnal mind in order to get rid of sin.
It makes no difference how many people might have died for your sins or what their names were, if you never follow the example of dying to your own sins, and overcoming them through the sinless spirit within you, you will always remain in them.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

It is interesting to note that the word Man or Adam is plural and refers to all mankind of the past present and future. It does not just refer to one man. It is also interesting to note that that mankind is created with a mortal body of flesh which is constantly passing away in the process of change and growth. The flesh changes every day as the old passes away and is replaced with the new, till it ultimately changes into dust. The flesh comes first according to the story and then the Spirit comes into the flesh.
Therefore if mankind who is created in the image of God, is flesh and spirit, don't you think God must also be flesh and spirit and have a mortal and visible aspect as well as an immortal and invisible aspect at all times on Earth and in Heaven? If not, then mankind is not created in the image of God at all but has something called mortality which God does not have.
Think about that.

Man was created as an immortal. It was when man had sinned, that death entered into the world. Man was not created to die. Remember that.

You (plural) are gods ( Psalm 82:6) and when you realise that you might understand that when you physically see the corporate body made of gods on Earth, you are actually seeing God or Christ who is not a single person but is a body of many members (gods) who are all perfectly visible in the flesh on Earth.
Rom 12:5, 1 Cor 6:15, 1 Cor 12:12, 1 Cor 12:27

Romancing Christ in us does not negate the risen & ascended Christ.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Time does not tick in the timeless kingdom of God.

Yet it did when God defined an evening and a morning as the first day and each day after that in creation week.

Seeing how His Kingdom will reign on earth, time exists for at the end of the millenial reign of Christ, Satan will be released from the pit for a small season.

We can be thankful that it is only for a season.

 

[Heb 13:8]

When do you receive the rewards of your crowns from the Lord?

Right, but running the race is done on earth.

It is the Father that chastens every child He receives;

Exactly, He chastens. He doesn't kick you out of the family once you're in. You've been adopted to sonship. Eph 1:5, Gal 6:10.

and He will use the great tribulation to do it.

God chastens His saints right now in the Grace Period. He doesn't need the tribulation to do it. Again, the church and trib saints are separate bodies.

Prove it as an allegory. What is Jesus talking about that it is an allegory about?

Easy, if it isn't then God is in contradiction.. John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 4:7, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

They will know when it is at the door, but not the day nor the hour.They will know when it is at the door, but not the day nor the hour.

The Day is on Feast of Trumpets, the hour is at sunset (in the twinkling of an eye). Learn your Bible.. TorahCalendar.com

1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold, I tell you a secret; We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If you go to Leviticus 23 there are seven feasts of the Lord. The word "festival" in Hebrew is translated "moed" which means: appointed time, place, or meeting. The first four feasts have already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and the last three are still future. Jesus fulfilled the first four feasts to the day literally, and the next feast on God's calendar is the Feast of Trumpets which is on 9/21/17 two days before the great sign appears in heaven. Each festival (an appointed time in history) represents an event Jesus fulfilled or will fulfill in the near future. The Feast of Trumpets represents the rapture of the church at the end of the church age, the age of Grace.

1. The Passover (God leads the Jews out of Egypt and slavery)
2. Unleavened Bread (The Death and Burial of Jesus Christ)
3. First Fruits (Resurrection of Jesus Christ)
4. Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (The beginning of the church age, Holy Spirit indwells believers)
5. Feast of Trumpets (The rapture of the church)
6. Day of Atonement (Jesus lands on the Mount of Olives and atones for the sins of Israel at the end of the 7 year tribulation)
7. Feast of Tabernacles (The 1,000 year reign with Christ)

If you wish for people to see your teachings as based in scripture, then you have to address the scripture that speaks against one point in your teaching as not fully correct

Right back atcha.. .. John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 4:7, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

There will be a partial rapture,

Jesus body will not be disfigured!

Most of the New Testament was written by religious people who have never heard the voice of God or testified to His knowledge called Christ. If you rely on the New Testament, you will be thoroughly deceived by those religious people who hate the Truth.

Acts 2:1-4 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

There is no "will be"...it is finished.

What a convoluted post.