Rapture Debate.

[ScottA]

God will separate the vessels unto honor of repentant believers that trusted Him as their Good Shepherd to have them abide in Him & His words in the KJV to be as His disciples and be willing & ready to go as opposed to the the vessels unto dishonor that did not look to Him for help to discern & to depart from any and all iniquity to be abiding in Him as well as being willing to go. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

That will happen at the pre trib rapture as those wayward & unrepentant saints and even former saved believers left behind shall be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

Why do you speak of that which "was" for some, and now "is" for others, and "will be" for still others to come, as if all must wait for an event that is only future? Do you not know that the dead in Christ are risen already, and that we who "were" crucified with Him, "were" also raise up with Him...already?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Why do you speak of that which "was" for some, and now "is" for others, and "will be" for still others to come, as if all must wait for an event that is only future? Do you not know that the dead in Christ are risen already, and that we who "were" crucified with Him, "were" also raise up with Him...already?

The dead O.T. saints that were resurrected, had not received their vessel unto honor yet. Yes, they are in Paradise now which was across the great gulf from Hell which is now located in the third heaven above.

Luke 13:30 testifying the first shall be last and the last shall be first is talking of the firstfruits of O.T. saints & N.T. saints abiding in Him as His disciples to attend the marriage supper. Luke 13:24-30 has Jesus testifying to unrepentant wayward saints being left behind in NOT attending that Supper.

So, whatever verse you are applying to ... those saints left behind will not be at the Marriage Supper at that time when the Supper is being held.

The saints left behind shall have their resurrection day coming, but it will not be to attend the Marriage Supper. Revelation 18th chapter testified to the saints not hearing the call of the bride and the Bridegroom any more as they shall have died in fallen Babylon.

 

[ScottA]

The dead O.T. saints that were resurrected, had not received their vessel unto honor yet. Yes, they are in Paradise now which was across the great gulf from Hell which is now located in the third heaven above.

Luke 13:30 testifying the first shall be last and the last shall be first is talking of the firstfruits of O.T. saints & N.T. saints abiding in Him as His disciples to attend the marriage supper. Luke 13:24-30 has Jesus testifying to unrepentant wayward saints being left behind in NOT attending that Supper.

So, whatever verse you are applying to ... those saints left behind will not be at the Marriage Supper at that time when the Supper is being held.

The saints left behind shall have their resurrection day coming, but it will not be to attend the Marriage Supper. Revelation 18th chapter testified to the saints not hearing the call of the bride and the Bridegroom any more as they shall have died in fallen Babylon.

This is man-speak: the understanding from the perspective of the world, as if the world were more than it is.

From the eternal, non-timeline, non-historic, non-worldly perspective of God, however...there is no purgatory "paradise" of waiting. But, as it is written: "to be absent of the body, is to be present with the Lord" - whom is not of this world, but timeless, and without days or times. Indeed, our "day" in the sun...is just that: a day and time [created] to tell in narrative fashion, our part in His story. But this narrative, has no more substance (space, time, and matter) than a story that is written. It is a story (His story) first conceived, then written, then enacted for a witness unto ourselves and for the judgement - but all in the twinkling of an eye. These are the books in heaven that are [now] being opened. No waiting.

PS, this is not intended as a criticism, but a clarification. Your telling of the story in context, is accurate. But a greater understanding is in store.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

This is man-speak: the understanding from the perspective of the world, as if the world were more than it is.

From the eternal, non-timeline, non-historic, non-worldly perspective of God, however...there is no purgatory "paradise" of waiting. But, as it is written: "to be absent of the body, is to be present with the Lord" - whom is not of this world, but timeless, and without days or times. Indeed, our "day" in the sun...is just that: a day and time [created] to tell in narrative fashion, our part in His story. But this narrative, has no more substance (space, time, and matter) than a story that is written. It is a story (His story) first conceived, then written, then enacted for a witness unto ourselves and for the judgement - but all in the twinkling of an eye. These are the books in heaven that are [now] being opened. No waiting.

The saints under the altar in Heaven as testified in Revelation are with the Lord, but not attending the Marriage Supper. John the apostle found out these be they that come out of the great tribulation that will be soon resurrected when the King of kings returns with the pre raptured saints.

So every man in his order testifies to believers receiving their resurrection of inheritance at different time periods. So there is a waiting for those saints under the altar, even though they are with the Lord.

The firstfruits will be liken unto angels that can never die and will not marry. They will have a place in the city of God that comes down from Heaven. They will testify to the works of the Lord in being His disciples as the crowns they wear are His crowning achievements in them.

They that be Christ's at His coming will not be like the firstfruits. The power of the second death will not be over them, but is that indicative that the power of the first death will be? For they shall serve the King of kings as priests and kings spread out all over the world in raising up the generations coming out of the millenial reign of Christ. That means they do not have living quarters in the City of God, but they will have His name and the name of that city of God on their foreheads in representing Him all over the world. To be a leader will require them to marry and have children because of the expectations on bishops by the example in their ruling.

1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

There are vessels unto honor in His House and there are vessels unto dishonor in His House. There is a separation from the Marriage Supper and a waiting in receiving their appropriate inheritance.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The kingdom of heaven is within.

Yes it is.

When 9/23/17 comes I hope you wake up to your own stupidity and foolishness and repent of your carnal mindedness and trying to set dates on things which can have no specific dates applied to them because they are eternal.

I'm not the date setter, God is.

Eze 39:9 “ ‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.

Dan 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Dan 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

Dan 12:11-12 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

Rev 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

Rev 11:3 And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

Rev 12:6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

Rev 13:5 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for forty-two months.

People with supernatural powers in any stories at all are mythical characters like Superman.

Jesus is a mythical character?

That lie that was placed in the New Testament written by liars who stole the writings of God's servants do not understand how we're created. Jesus knew his body was only an illusion that would perish when the Romans killed it.

Rom 10:9, 2 Tim 3:16-17

There won't be any real living person named Jesus Christ after the day of the Lord when everything on earth is destroyed. The Lord is coming as fire on the day of the Lord, not as a living person named Jesus.

Zech 14:4, Rev 19:11-16

Did Paul testified to the church at Corinth to excommunicate an unrepentant brother? For what purpose?

John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

The point is... the purpose for excommunication by the church as taught by Paul will be the same purpose at the pre trib rapture as done by the Lord.

 

[eldios]

Yes it is.



I'm not the date setter, God is.

Eze 39:9 “ ‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.

Dan 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Dan 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

Dan 12:11-12 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

Rev 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

Rev 11:3 And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

Rev 12:6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

Rev 13:5 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for forty-two months.



Jesus is a mythical character?



Rom 10:9, 2 Tim 3:16-17



Zech 14:4, Rev 19:11-16



John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

Laziness comes from Satan and the beast. Whenever God has me use prophecies from the Bible, He has me red letter every word that backs up the words He gives me to type into these forums so that His chosen believers don't have to look up anything in the Bible. Most chosen believers have never opened up a Bible.

 

[skyangel]

Indeed. And all of this is a mere narrative of what "is", like the lines of a book that is written...not space as considered, not time as experienced, nor matter as it would appear. History, is His story.

History is not any particular individuals story in the sense of being "His" story. Spirit is neither male nor female. History is generally perceived to be about the past but any History of TRUTH and LIFE is not just about what happened in the past. It is past Present and future all the time for all eternity. As you rightly point out, it is not about time as we experience on Earth.
Time is an illusion which leads many people astray when it comes to believing that some prophecies in the bible have not yet come to pass. However, it easy to understand that point of view when one understands those people live and walk in darkness and the LIGHT has not dawed in their hearts and minds so they are obviously waiting for the LIGHT to come before they actually see it in reality.

 

[eldios]

History is not any particular individuals story in the sense of being "His" story. Spirit is neither male nor female.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The image of God and man are spirit, both male and female. The lies you share in these forums have deceived all who believe them.

 

[skyangel]

The dead O.T. saints that were resurrected, had not received their vessel unto honor yet. Yes, they are in Paradise now which was across the great gulf from Hell which is now located in the third heaven above.

What scripture teaches the doctrine that OT saints have not received their vessel unto honour yet?

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, andanother of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Wake up and understand that any resurrected people in the bible stories were resurrected into a spiritual body and that spiritual body is a vessel of honour. It is a vessel which has been raised in incorruption and in glory and power. It is a spiritual body and not some dishonourable corrupt body.
To believe that OT and NT saints have not yet received a body of honour is false doctrine.
What kind of body exactly do you believe the people in the bible stories were raised with? Some corruptible dishonourable body that will perish again or do you think they had no body at all?
The OT and NT saints who are physically dead and also spiritually dead to the carnal minded "old man" are in the same body Christ is in, not some other place waiting for an incorruptible body. They ARE ALL part of the incorruptible body of Christ which was and is and is to come for all eternity, just like yesterday today and tomorrow "is to come" for all eternity.


2 Tim 2:20-21 But in a great house (referring to the house of God or BODY of Christ) there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these ( referring to the dishonourable aspects of his own character or his own vessel), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Thess 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

The point is that the vessel (body) you happen to live in right now today can be purged and become a vessel of honour right now. There is no need to wait till after you are physically dead and hope you get a different physical body one day in the unknown future.
Who needs to purge it? Not Jesus or God but YOU do. It says the man needs to PURGE HIMSELF.
Physical bodies do not rise from physical graves after many years of being dead. They never have and never will.
People who are spiritually dead in sins and ignorance and live in darkness, however can be spiritually raised into newness of life and abide in the LIGHT after many years of being dead. All they need to do is want to wake up to themselves instead of dreaming their lives away as they follow the false doctrines of their foolish blind teachers.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The point is... the purpose for excommunication by the church as taught by Paul will be the same purpose at the pre trib rapture as done by the Lord.

So why are you preaching non-osas. You know better than that.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Laziness comes from Satan and the beast. Whenever God has me use prophecies from the Bible, He has me red letter every word that backs up the words He gives me to type into these forums so that His chosen believers don't have to look up anything in the Bible. Most chosen believers have never opened up a Bible.

coming from a handle that thinks Rom 10:9 is a lie..

 

[skyangel]

I'm not the date setter, God is.

Carnal minded people who are of the world and take the bible stories literally have been setting "second coming" dates for centuries and all of them end up making total fools of themselves because what they claim will happen never happens on the date they place their faith in. They are self deceived and deluded fools and the light they profess to have in them is indeed darkness. They fail to comprehend the spiritual TRUTH that Christ is the SAME YESTERDAY TODAY and FOREVER.
Christ always was and is and will be on this Earth in the flesh. Those who have eyes to see can and do see it/him daily and the blind will never see in spite of the fact that they are looking at TRUTH and LIFE with their physical eyes daily. They are far too busy worshipping their invisible idols and waiting for their false Christ to return to notice the real Christ in Earth in the flesh in reality TODAY.

Jesus is a mythical character?

Yes because no real person is born of a physical virgin. No real person can physically heal physical sickness by simply telling the sick to "be healed" or "your faith has made you whole". No real physical person has ever risen from a physical grave after being buried three or more days and they never will. To beleive such things ever happened in reality is a religious fantasy. That character is fictional and never existed.

The character merely represents a spiritual man living and walking in a human body. Any spiritual person on this planet today can live the same way as the Jesus character in the bible stories. The story book character has the same spiritual powers that any other spiritual man also has... not to raise physically dead people from their graves but to raise spiritually dead people from their spiritual graves and bring LIGHT to those who walk in spiritual darkness at all times. It is not about Earthly things which are temporary and pass away. It is about eternal things which abide forever. There is no point in raising physically dead people from their graves because the physical body was designed to pass away and return to dust and remain dust.

Spiritual virginity is quite different to physical virginity. A spiritual virgin is a person who is spiritually undefiled by lies, deceptions and false doctrines. They live in TRUTH at all times and they conceive Truth in a spiritual sense and give "birth" to Truth every time they speak it.

The character Jesus is simply a personification of the Revelation of TRUTH and LIFE. He was never a real person with supernatural powers to do miracles in a physical sense. If a person named Jesus actually existed, he may have been a philosopher but was physically no different to any other man on Earth and any so called miracles he did were spiritual ones which set an example for others to follow. Any spiritual person can do exactly the same spiritual miracles today simply by living in LOVE and speaking TRUTH. It makes no difference who accepts or rejects that TRUTH because either way, there is a consequence for accepting Truth and rejecting Truth and each person suffers the consequence or reaps the rewards of their own choices when it comes to accepting or rejecting Truth.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Carnal minded people who are of the world and take the bible stories literally have been setting "second coming" dates for centuries and all of them end up making total fools of themselves because what they claim will happen never happens on the date they place their faith in. They are self deceived and deluded fools and the light they profess to have in them is indeed darkness.

Right, but the predictions in the past didn't have Rev 12:1-5 sign starring them in the face, lol. Stellarium didn't even exist until 2001.

They are far too busy worshipping their invisible idols and waiting for their false Christ to return to notice the real Christ in Earth in the flesh in reality TODAY.

No, Christ is very much real. I assume he's false to those who don't believe like yourself?

Yes because no real person is born of a physical virgin.

Wow, you're really starting to show your fruits aren't ya. That didn't take long.

Matt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Yes because no real person is born of a physical virgin. No real person can physically heal physical sickness by simply telling the sick to "be healed" or "your faith has made you whole". No real physical person has ever risen from a physical grave after being buried three or more days and they never will. To beleive such things ever happened in reality is a religious fantasy. That character is fictional and never existed.

Right, and some claim to be born again but deny Jesus and His deity.

1 John 2:18-19 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

The character Jesus is simply a personification of the Revelation of TRUTH and LIFE. He was never a real person with supernatural powers to do miracles in a physical sense. If a person named Jesus actually existed, he may have been a philosopher but was physically no different to any other man on Earth and any so called miracles he did were spiritual ones which set an example for others to follow. Any spiritual person can do exactly the same spiritual miracles today simply by living in LOVE and speaking TRUTH...

..said the realist muslim?

Matt 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

I AM born of God. (1 John 3:9)
I SEE God in a physical sense as well as in a spiritual sense every day on this Earth in spite of the fact that the Spirit is ultimately invisible to carnally minded people and always will be.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Gal 2:4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

 

[skyangel]

Right, but the predictions in the past didn't have Rev 12:1-5 sign starring them in the face, lol. Stellarium didn't even exist until 2001.

An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[skyangel]

Wow, you're really starting to show your fruits aren't ya. That didn't take long.

Matt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Spiritual things like Holy Spirit give people spiritual conceptions not physical conceptions.
Spirit is born of Spirit. Flesh is born of flesh. John 3:6

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

What scripture teaches the doctrine that OT saints have not received their vessel unto honour yet?

The one you posted below. I'll leave it out of the quote box.

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, andanother of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

You need to read back up a bit though....

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then down a bit...

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So the O.T. saints & N.T. abiding disciples from the graves will receive the firstfruits of their inheritance along with the abiding disciples at the pre trib rapture event; not before.

Wake up and understand that any resurrected people in the bible stories were resurrected into a spiritual body and that spiritual body is a vessel of honour. It is a vessel which has been raised in incorruption and in glory and power. It is a spiritual body and not some dishonourable corrupt body.

Those N.T. saints who have died and are present with the Lord, are not in that resurrected celestial body, right? So why would the O.T. saints be?

To believe that OT and NT saints have not yet received a body of honour is false doctrine.

Your reference cites when Christ appears for the firstfruits at the pre trib rapture event. So the dead in Christ are raised and that is the celestial inheritance where they are like the angels that never die and shall live with God in that city of God. The receiving of that inheritance is at the pre trib rapture event when the O.T. saints shall have the same at that same time.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The O.T. saints have not received that place in the city of God yet because Jesus is still building it like the Bridegroom, preparing the place for the bride of Christ to receive at the pre trib rapture event where they will sit down with the O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table ( Luke 13:24-30 )

What kind of body exactly do you believe the people in the bible stories were raised with? Some corruptible dishonourable body that will perish again or do you think they had no body at all?
The OT and NT saints who are physically dead and also spiritually dead to the carnal minded "old man" are in the same body Christ is in, not some other place waiting for an incorruptible body. They ARE ALL part of the incorruptible body of Christ which was and is and is to come for all eternity, just like yesterday today and tomorrow "is to come" for all eternity.

What body did the Lord descend into Paradise aka Abraham's bosom with? A spiritual body. What body was Christ raised with? A celestial body.

That resurrected body is what both O.T. & N.T. saints shall inherit when the Bridegroom comes for the bride to take to the city of God above to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

2 Tim 2:20-21 But in a great house (referring to the house of God or BODY of Christ) there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these ( referring to the dishonourable aspects of his own character or his own vessel), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Thess 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

The point is that the vessel (body) you happen to live in right now today can be purged and become a vessel of honour right now. There is no need to wait till after you are physically dead and hope you get a different physical body one day in the unknown future.
Who needs to purge it? Not Jesus or God but YOU do. It says the man needs to PURGE HIMSELF.
Physical bodies do not rise from physical graves after many years of being dead. They never have and never will.
People who are spiritually dead in sins and ignorance and live in darkness, however can be spiritually raised into newness of life and abide in the LIGHT after many years of being dead. All they need to do is want to wake up to themselves instead of dreaming their lives away as they follow the false doctrines of their foolish blind teachers.

It is true that we are to lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us abide in Him and follow Him as His disciple and thus be that vessel unto honor, but it is not perfect yet. Jesus will finish it to His glory when He comes as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

So why are you preaching non-osas. You know better than that.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Those unrepentant & wayward saints left behind are still saved which is why they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor as they shall be in His House for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

 

[Heb 13:8]

An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years.

Yes because no real person is born of a physical virgin. No real person can physically heal physical sickness by simply telling the sick to "be healed" or "your faith has made you whole". No real physical person has ever risen from a physical grave after being buried three or more days and they never will. To beleive such things ever happened in reality is a religious fantasy. That character is fictional and never existed.

1 John 2:18-19 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Those unrepentant & wayward saints left behind are still saved which is why they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor as they shall be in His House for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

No, the church and tribulation saints are completely separate from each other. The church are those who have come to faith in Jesus Christ during the Grace period in which we're in now, Rom 10:9. Tribulation saints are those who have come to faith after rapture inside Daniels 70th week, Rev 12:17.

 

[skyangel]

The one you posted below. I'll leave it out of the quote box.

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, andanother of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

You need to read back up a bit though....

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then down a bit...

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So the O.T. saints & N.T. abiding disciples from the graves will receive the firstfruits of their inheritance along with the abiding disciples at the pre trib rapture event; not before.



Those N.T. saints who have died and are present with the Lord, are not in that resurrected celestial body, right? So why would the O.T. saints be?



Your reference cites when Christ appears for the firstfruits at the pre trib rapture event. So the dead in Christ are raised and that is the celestial inheritance where they are like the angels that never die and shall live with God in that city of God. The receiving of that inheritance is at the pre trib rapture event when the O.T. saints shall have the same at that same time.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The O.T. saints have not received that place in the city of God yet because Jesus is still building it like the Bridegroom, preparing the place for the bride of Christ to receive at the pre trib rapture event where they will sit down with the O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table ( Luke 13:24-30 )



What body did the Lord descend into Paradise aka Abraham's bosom with? A spiritual body. What body was Christ raised with? A celestial body.

That resurrected body is what both O.T. & N.T. saints shall inherit when the Bridegroom comes for the bride to take to the city of God above to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.




It is true that we are to lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us abide in Him and follow Him as His disciple and thus be that vessel unto honor, but it is not perfect yet. Jesus will finish it to His glory when He comes as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ.

I hope that one day you stop worshipping a man and waiting for that idol of yours to arrive on Earth in a physical body. I sincerely hope you one day receive the revelation that God is not a man, neither the son of man. Christ is not confined to an individual body.
The Christ which you are hoping will arrive in literal clouds one day is a figment of your imagination and a product of false doctrines.

The True Christ is already on Earth in the flesh and always has been and always will be.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

How many Christians confess that Christ "IS COME" in the flesh present tense, not just did come, past tense, or will come again one day future tense.. but IS COME NOW present tense?...
Those who do not believe or confess that Christ IS COME NOW Present tense are not of God according to scripture but are antichrist even if they do preach Christ. The Christ they preach is a false Christ who once was on Earth in the flesh but is not on Earth in the flesh today, yet will come again at some future time but they have no clue when.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I am confessing that Christ IS COME in the flesh in the past, IS PRESENT in the flesh on Earth NOW and will always be present on Earth in the future as he returns with every tomorrow just as the LIGHT which shines from the East to the West returns every day.
Christ is the SAME Yesterday Today and Forever. He never did anything in the past that he is not doing today and will not continue to do in future. That includes revealing himself in the flesh to those who want to know the TRUTH and want to see it in the flesh daily.
The rest are blind and of the world which will see him NO MORE, not ever again in spite of them staring the TRUTH in the flesh daily.
Those blind leaders of the blind do not recognise Christ in the flesh on Earth today at all and never will as long as they continue to follow their false Christ.