Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[pia]

No worries...he could do with a 'like.'
If you ever make a mistake, just click it again, and it will vanish.
I did that this morning to someone...not by mistake. I clicked like, then reread what was written in the post, and quickly un-liked it...as I had read it wrongly. Ha!

Thank you, that is very helpful, you are extremely good at that also..... Yeah you're right, he could do with a 'like'. I would dearly love to see a little more unity here, and trying to find the Love of God in people, just like you. Blessings Pia

 

[Jun2u]

First of all - the promise to be guided to ALL truth by the Holy Spirit is NOT to the individual - but to the Church.
In the NT, when Jesus speaks to the crowds, He speaks to ALL of us. However, when He instructs His Apostles - he is speaking to the leaders of His Church. This promise was made to His Apostles at the Last Supper - not to the crowds.

Secondly - your view that the Holy Spirit will guide ALL people who read the Bible to the truth is squashed by the mere fact that there are tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects - ALL teaching different doctrines based on their different interpretations of God's Word.

How do you explain the fact that these sects all teach different doctrines like . . .
Some believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

Did the Holy Spirit create this confusion - of did men??

Let us test this conclusion against the Bible.

If you mean the Catholic Church then I don’t buy it. If however, on the other hand, you mean THE Spiritual Church (which consists of all true believers, Ac 2:47) that Christ has been building since Pentecost almost 2,000 years ago, then I agree.

Now we have to define what is an apostle. Normally, w,hen we speak of the apostles we mean the twelve, and we don’t associate the word apostle to anyone else. But what is the function of an apostle? Well, he is one who is sent just as a prophet prophesies (declares) the word of God. Can a born again believer hold either office or both? Most certainly. Contrary to what you say, a born again believer is mandated by God to witness (sent) and to prophesy (declare) the Gospel to the world like missionaries do (Isa 52:7; Mt 28:19-20). We call this the Great Commission. See also Ro 10:14-15.

Secondly, please don’t put words in my mouth and make my post #653 into a lie! I’ve never said , “the Holy Spirit will guide ALL people who read the Bible to the truth.” What I’ve said was, “I don’t believe the Holy Spirit will not give truth when ask by a believer” (Mt 7:9-11). Underlined word is for emphasis only. Those who do NOT ask will receive nothing (Jo 3:27).

The rest of “some believe and others do not” statements can now be answered by you without any help from me.

To God Be The Glory

 

[pia]

I don't believe the Holy Spirit will not give truth when asks by a believer. Jesus promised He will send another comforter and guide us into all truths. There is only one truth and one Gospel and that is circumscribed by the Bible! Not by the Catholic Church and that is the difference.

To God Be The Glory

So wonderfully put, bless you ! Pia

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let us test this conclusion against the Bible.

If you mean the Catholic Church then I don’t buy it. If however, on the other hand, you mean THE Spiritual Church (which consists of all true believers, Ac 2:47) that Christ has been building since Pentecost almost 2,000 years ago, then I agree.

Now we have to define what is an apostle. Normally, w,hen we speak of the apostles we mean the twelve, and we don’t associate the word apostle to anyone else. But what is the function of an apostle? Well, he is one who is sent just as a prophet prophesies (declares) the word of God. Can a born again believer hold either office or both? Most certainly. Contrary to what you say, a born again believer is mandated by God to witness (sent) and to prophesy (declare) the Gospel to the world like missionaries do (Isa 52:7; Mt 28:19-20). We call this the Great Commission. See also Ro 10:14-15.

Secondly, please don’t put words in my mouth and make my post #653 into a lie! I’ve never said , “the Holy Spirit will guide ALL people who read the Bible to the truth.” What I’ve said was, “I don’t believe the Holy Spirit will not give truth when ask by a believer” (Mt 7:9-11). Underlined word is for emphasis only. Those who do NOT ask will receive nothing (Jo 3:27).

The rest of “some believe and others do not” statements can now be answered by you without any help from me.

To God Be The Glory

Okay - first of all - you'll never get 99% of all credible Protestant scholars to agree that we are ALL Apostles.
MOST of them will say that it was the Twelve- along with Paul and maybe Barnabas.

Secondly - nobody here has been able to answer the question I have asked now about a dozen times - worded about a dozen different ways.
There are tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects - ALL teaching different doctrines based on their different interpretations of God's Word. Many teach essential doctrines that are as different as night and day.

WHICH one is correct??
They can't ALL be correct or the Holy Spirit is the Father of confusion.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dear Lord I had hoped we could start afresh......You and marymog has a bad habit of misquoting people or just NOT reading what people write.....I have NEVER claimed that I am right, but that Jesus IS.......He is the one who showed me this and spoke to me about it, because I didn't understand that if Jesus died for the sin of the world, why it was that every church group or even most Christians, went on and on about constant sin and repentance and of course the loss of what Jesus died to grant us. It took Him a long time to finally get it all the way through me, but I accept it fully now, as He has showed me in so many ways, that He is STILL always there, no matter what I think I have done wrong, and I can rely on Him to set me straight.
You claim we're all against Catholics and quite frankly I have read a lot of posts now, and I simply do not see what you see,. What I see is people not agreeing with the Catholic church system.....But I see that you do what you accuse others of, by having a go at the protestant churches........Personally I have a 'beef' with all of them because of the way they misrepresent God ( even if it is in ignorance ).
Are you able to share ONE thing please, which you didn't get from studying? I would love to hear something real from you and not just second, third or fourth hand hearsay............Certainly The Lord would not be pleased at all this dissension....

Third party hearsay??
Why is it that NONE of you can tell me that if there are tens of thousands of Protestant sects teaching doctrines that are as different as night and day - WHO is right and WHO is wrong??

If the Holy Spirit guides ALL to correct Biblical interpretation - then why are there so many different interpretations and sects??
This should be EASY for any Protestant to answer.

I know it is for me . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

There you go again making accusations.
I never said I was not in communion with the body. On the contrary, I said, "I know the body of Christ."
Like I also said, "Pay attention."

Then WHICH denomination or theological tradition to you belong to?
Why is it so difficult for all of you to admit where you go to church - IF you go to church, that is.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who are you to say because they lied to the Holy Spirit, that they lost their salvation. There is nothing here to indicate that.

Stranger

Sooooo, YOU think Heaven if full of liars??
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Proverbs 12:22
LYING lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 14:5
A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out LIES.

Romans 3:13
“Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”

Does THIS sound like Heaven to you??

 

[ScottA]

Then WHICH denomination or theological tradition to you belong to?
Why is it so difficult for all of you to admit where you go to church - IF you go to church, that is.

You are avoiding the point. I say again:

"This is not a Protestant or Catholic issue. It is a "body of many members" issue, and therefore wrong to take such a self-damning position. We are the members of one body, and "God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased."

"Have you no knowledge of God's own "confusion" placed upon all language, or His sending "strong delusion", or His sending a spirit of "slumber" until the fullness of the gentiles has come - that these are all His doing, even if they are to our own shame?

"Have you not been counseled to love, rather than hate? Indeed, you have."

 

[Stranger]

Sooooo, YOU think Heaven if full of liars??
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Proverbs 12:22
LYING lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 14:5
A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out LIES.

Romans 3:13
“Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”

Does THIS sound like Heaven to you??

Sooooooo, do you think David went to Heaven?

Stranger

 

[pia]

Third party hearsay??
Why is it that NONE of you can tell me that if there are tens of thousands of Protestant sects teaching doctrines that are as different as night and day - WHO is right and WHO is wrong??

If the Holy Spirit guides ALL to correct Biblical interpretation - then why are there so many different interpretations and sects??
This should be EASY for any Protestant to answer.

I know it is for me . . .

Why do you keep doing that, to what you call Protestants, when you have such a stonehard stance on your Catholicism ?
I am not nor have I EVER claimed to be ANY denomination, and why do you keep ignoring me when I point out that Jesus did NOT tell me to go to a Catholic church, and if that had been a MUST, He would have! You seem to have enormous issues with Christ being real, why is that ? Ok, so I suppose you answered my question.....There is no way you will even begin to try and have peace, what a darn shame...........To your last question, well obviously not all ARE listening to the Holy Spirit.... So my question to you....How come if the bible has been written through the Holy spirit, how can there be so many varied opinions on what it says? Sure one can read it in the flesh and get more confused than ever That should be easy for a catholic to answer, right? You are a stickler for the bible, so does it not say that " God is NOT the author of confusion.", so why is the bible such a confusing document, or for that matter when did Jesus say :" I will cause a book to be written which will bring to your remembrance what so ever I have told you, follow that, and follow and build on everything the others have, not what I can tell you." I feel both sad and perplexed by you... Are you only on here to make everyone feel like what you would term failures ( for not being in the catholic church ), or to get up peoples noses so far you will have difficulty finding your way out again? How are you even allowed to be on a forum such as this, you do NOTHING but be a running commercial for the catholic church, doesn't that belong elsewhere ? You make kindness and tolerance extremely difficult, and the bible you claim to know so well, tells us NOT to be a stumbling block to other believers, and quite frankly, that is all I see in you, you have had zero reality to add to anything, only spouting scriptures all over the place along with what your church has taught you it means. Do you have any ideas why God would have sent the Holy spirit, if all He has to do is to sit by ( bored ) twiddling His 'thumbs' ? I think you need to kneel and get before God and sincerely ask Him to show you if you have any error, the way most of the rest of us do. Or are you too learned to do that ?

 

[bbyrd009]

And one would be wrong . . .

i'm pretty sure they would be ok, just wrong to you tho

 

[bbyrd009]

And that's the problem with most Protestants.

i am not a protestant, Bread of Death.

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not "me and Jesus" alone.

i never said it was. We are pretty obviously all in this together

I am part of His BODY.

i doubt that--spiritual bodies do not need organs of elimination

 

[bbyrd009]

It's US and Jesus

yes, but even Protestants get the same polluted pov you demonstrate; that being that one becomes able somehow to identify who the followers of Christ are, to commend yourselves to each other i guess, being as how you are supposed to treat everyone the same anyway. What use are you to God, if you believe you have identified someone as an enemy, only to treat them the same way the rest of the world does?

If no one can stand to be in a room with you right now, you obviously are not acting the part of the Body of Christ, right

 

[bbyrd009]

His Body is not the individual - but the entire Body, working and loving and praying and celebrating the Eucharist together.

k i'm putting you back on ignore now, because otherwise pity seems the best i can do?
If you go to heaven though, and it is actually a place that people go after they die, which i seriously doubt, i hope i go to hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

Amen.
One body, many members. Not sure this means different "sects" as much as it means all believers make up the "One Body". Who cares if you call yourself Catholic or Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or any other name. Associating with a group probably won't carry much weight when your name is called.

imo Gandhi might be the best example of a Christ follower we have in the modern era; or at least the most well known.

 

[bbyrd009]

where in Acts the meeting with Paul and the others took place immediately after his conversion

where in Acts the meeting with Paul and the others took place immediately after his conversion - Google Search

 

[pia]

where in Acts the meeting with Paul and the others took place immediately after his conversion - Google Search

Hi, how can I shorten that for a search engine please ?

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi, how can I shorten that for a search engine please ?

that is a search engine search, right there--up to 70 words, i think it is, will search; see that that is a link that you can click right now

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi, how can I shorten that for a search engine please ?

the problem being that if your terms are not correct, they will hinder the search--so iow if it was not in Acts, or Paul did not immediately get with the other Apostles after conversion, it will mess up the search sometimes