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Stranger

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So it is your belief that an individual is able to overcome their sinful ways without faith in Jesus? To walk in righteousness without faith?

What would be the point?

There are plenty of unbelievers who are more moral than believers. This is not due to their faith in Christ. It is due to their discipline and desire to be moral. They are still guilty as hell of sin, but they have the appearance before man of being good and moral.

No, these do not walk in righteousness. Their righteousness is their own, not of Christ. But it appears good and acceptable among men. 'good people'.

Stranger
 

epostle1

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Hmmmm.....

Your opinion is OPPOSITE of scripture and what Jesus said: 1 Corinthians 11:24 (along with many other passages that destroy your opinion).

Mary
Good point. One example of the confusion that followed (the reformatiion) is evidenced in Christopher Rasperger’s work published in 1577, 200 Interpretations of the Words: This is My Body, within 60 years.
 

epostle1

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What some anti-Catholics are desperately trying to prove is that Peter could not be the first Pope if he was never in Rome. This is juvenile. The office of the Pope is not established by geography but by the authority of Jesus Christ.

Isaiha 22: 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be pulled down from your station.

Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isaiha 22:20 In that day I will call my servant Eli'akim the son of Hilki'ah,

Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isaiah 22:21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.

Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isaiah 22:22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

It looks a lot like Matthew 16:19 and Revelation 3:7, doesn't it?

Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to Pope Francis with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Isaiah 22:23: And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.

It looks a lot like Matthew 16:19, doesn't it?

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

It looks a lot like Rev. 3:7, AND Isaiah 22:22, doesn't it?

Matt. 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jeremiah 33:17 For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.

Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever.

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.
 
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Job

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No, these do not walk in righteousness.

To turn from the holy commandment implies the individual was following the commandment at one time. You can't turn away from something you're not following. And if they're following the holy commandment of God, they're walking in righteousness or at least attempting to.


2 Peter 2
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

k
 

BreadOfLife

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Well, you are not being specific enough...try to be more clear.

But since you asked about the "one", then it would be the Pope.
Then your statement is even more asinine that I previously thought.
How do WE, as human beings put a robe of righteousness on another human being??
We don't clothe ourselves, Einstein - GOD does.

And to think it took well over a dozen attempts to get that out of you . . .
 

pia

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If I have said something that isn't true, quote me and we can discuss it. I am not afraid to admit to making mistakes. I don't reject completely your experiences, but they are for you, and not intended to teach the whole world. I thought you were claiming this authority for yourself. Sorry.
Mystical experiences, which is what you describe, does in fact occur in the CC. But it requires a spiritual director. I suggest you find a pastor to talk to on a regular basis, if you don't have one already, so your giftings can be used to upbuild the body.
I tend to come down hard on warped interpretation and false histories, and too many good Christians have been deceived, especially topics like the Whore duh Babble-on in the book of Rebel-ations
As I have said before, please do find anything in the Bible which contradicts what I am sharing, as to the things He has told me or shown to me. I have NEVER claimed to have any gift whatsoever , quite the opposite, I had no interest in religion, but when I saw where I was ( when I 'died' ) something in me changed, and I truly believe it was Him who did that for me, as if anything at all, I would have called out to God, not Jesus, which I had no comprehension that a person could even do.
What did I write that you saw as 'warped' or 'false' ? I have no problem if we can do this in a spirit of peace.........:)
 

Stranger

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To turn from the holy commandment implies the individual was following the commandment at one time. You can't turn away from something you're not following. And if they're following the holy commandment of God, they're walking in righteousness or at least attempting to.


2 Peter 2
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

k

One can follow commandments and not be a believer. They walk in their own righteousness which is by the Law.

Stranger
 

bbyrd009

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gimme that guy over someone who believes in their own definition of salvation any day
There are plenty of unbelievers who are more moral than believers. This is not due to their faith in Christ. It is due to their discipline and desire to be moral. They are still guilty as hell of sin, but they have the appearance before man of being good and moral.

No, these do not walk in righteousness. Their righteousness is their own, not of Christ. But it appears good and acceptable among men. 'good people'.

Stranger
"little children, do not be deceived..."
 

Job

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One can follow commandments and not be a believer. They walk in their own righteousness which is by the Law.

Stranger

Yeah, I suppose...

I sometimes forget that we're not all at the same mile marker in understanding the scriptures. My bad.
 

Marymog

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obviously He was not, or else He would not have been handing them bread and wine, right?
I think you got it backwards my dear friend. He said you must eat my body and drink my blood. If he meant it LITERALLY he would be handing them his body and blood.

Right?

Confused Mary
 

bbyrd009

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Do you think for a minute that this blessing is only pronounced over those of us who keep our religious ways and are circumcised? Or do you think it possible that the blessing could be given to those who never even heard of our ways, who were never brought up in the disciplines of God? We all agree, don't we, that it was by embracing what God did for him that Abraham was declared fit before God?
 

bbyrd009

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ScottA

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Then your statement is even more asinine that I previously thought.
How do WE, as human beings put a robe of righteousness on another human being??
We don't clothe ourselves, Einstein - GOD does.

And to think it took well over a dozen attempts to get that out of you . . .
Stop calling names!

If you understand that we do not cloth ourselves with glory from above, why do you cloth one with glory that is not from above?

As for taking all these attempts, it is not me who has taken all this time to get to the reality of my above question, but you. Be glad that I did not just blow you off.
 

BreadOfLife

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Stop calling names!

If you understand that we do not cloth ourselves with glory from above, why do you cloth one with glory that is not from above?

As for taking all these attempts, it is not me who has taken all this time to get to the reality of my above question, but you. Be glad that I did not just blow you off.
WE don't clothe ourselves in anything from God.
HE clothes us.

Incidentally - you DID blow me off for over a dozen exchanges because you knew you had no valid answer for this nonsense.