WHAT Is the Trinity?

[lforrest]

think i'll try believing in Trinity on odd days next week and see what happens :)

I doubt you can truly believe something one minute while intending not to the next. If you can that's messed-up.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who was the Lord spoken of in Psalm 110 and Mathew 22?

45If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

46,No one could say a word in reply.

 

[bbyrd009]

I doubt you can truly believe something one minute while intending not to the next. If you can that's messed-up.

the point is to illustrate that there really is no point here practically speaking. The very best you could hope to do is to develop an understanding of God that you are so insistent upon that you make adversaries out of friends, when holding the exact opposite position would not have any bearing whatsoever on your MO that i can see

 

[lforrest]

the point is to illustrate that there really is no point here practically speaking. The very best you could hope to do is to develop an understanding of God that you are so insistent upon that you make adversaries out of friends, when holding the exact opposite position would not have any bearing whatsoever on your MO that i can see

The Truth is worth losing friends over, if they insist on holding you hostage.

Try going into a non-trinitarian cult and insist on holding the trinity doctrine. See how much they put up with you.

 

[Stranger]

LOL, don't be silly GG... (smile). ERROR on your part, the scripture clearly states that the PERSON, Lord Jesus, is the ONLY ONE with immortality. read the scriptures again, 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

who is the King of king and Lord of lords, scripture, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

LOL, this is the same ONE who is King of kings and Lord of lords in 1 Timothy 6:16 so GG the scriptures are clear and there is no excuse. so once again, the Lord Jesus is the only one with immorality, and that destroys your trinity doctrine.

look, keep on unbelieving is you want, but remember this, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". now for all those who say Mark 16:16 was added, well, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I suggest you re-read this post.

One must have mortality first to be immortal. God the Father is not immortal. He has always been and always will be. God the Son, Jesus Christ however, did put on mortality. And He alone hath immortality, and gives immortality.

So, the Trinity doctrine has not been destroyed.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

The Truth is worth losing friends over, if they insist on holding you hostage.

Try going into a non-trinitarian cult and insist on holding the trinity doctrine. See how much they put up with you.

ha whole lotta insisting goin on there lol

 

[GodsGrace]

hmm, not familiar with these. I don't quite get how "fear" has been put across to you as a motivator for God tbh

Who said it's a motivator?
Jesus needed a motiator??

 

[bbyrd009]

Who said it's a motivator?

you suggested earlier that that was why Jesus hid, and etc. A factor iow. A consideration.

 

[GodsGrace]

i believe giving Trinity doctrine the force of Law, to be adhered to upon pain of death, should be a pretty good indicator of where it came from, and i am comfortable worshipping a God that i cannot define, myself. But i understand that much of this is cultural, not salvational i guess.

after all, if we were neighbors or something, and you one day changed your position on this, would i even notice?
What change in behavior would a change in position here engender?
think i'll try believing in Trinity on odd days next week and see what happens :)

This is about the 3rd time you've said that the Trinity is used for your above purpose.
You must really dislike it.
But it is real, nonetheless.
YOU don't decide what Christianity is, it has already been decided many years before you were ever born.
How has it harmed you?

 

[GodsGrace]

you suggested earlier that that was why Jesus hid, and etc. A factor iow. A consideration.

No. You understood incorrectly.

All I said is that Jesus felt all the emotions we've felt, including fear.
This does not mean He feared man, as one poster said.
It ONLY means, He experienced fear.
Hebrews 4:15

While Jesus was here, He experienced ALL we have, except He did not sin.
Please show me the opposite of this from scripture if that's what you believe.

 

[bbyrd009]

You must really dislike it.

ha i have almost no opinion on it at all tbh, not sure why you are even saying this? I don't really interact with anyone that is a staunch Trinitarian or anything, or if they are it never comes up in our interactions. Which is kind of the point i meant to ID with the most here--we are basically discussing how a person might choose to believe a certain aspect of God is defined, and the definition, whatever it is, will have no practical value whatsoever, other than to separate and divide people who otherwise were in agreement.

unless you could name a single other benefit

 

[lforrest]

ha i have almost no opinion on it at all tbh, not sure why you are even saying this? I don't really interact with anyone that is a staunch Trinitarian or anything, or if they are it never comes up in our interactions. Which is kind of the point i meant to ID with the most here--we are basically discussing how a person might choose to believe a certain aspect of God is defined, and the definition, whatever it is, will have no practical value whatsoever, other than to separate and divide people who otherwise were in agreement.

unless you could name a single other benefit

That is your opinion, but there are some essential doctrines contained within the doctrine of the Trinity. Many who deny the trinity do so because they don't want to believe Jesus is God. Such as yourself, because it puts a wider divide between your Muslim and Christian beliefs.

 

[bbyrd009]

All I said is that Jesus felt all the emotions we've felt, including fear.

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

so i dunno, have to think about that some. I would just categorically disagree, but i see also that we might be disagreeing on the definition of "fear" here, somewhat. "Fear" might also be "respect," etc. But i don't think so, tbh. Jesus experienced lust? So see, it can be difficult to know where to draw the line between emotions and convictions i guess.

Fear might be said to result from a conviction, in that argument

 

[GodsGrace]

ha i have almost no opinion on it at all tbh, not sure why you are even saying this? I don't really interact with anyone that is a staunch Trinitarian or anything, or if they are it never comes up in our interactions. Which is kind of the point i meant to ID with the most here--we are basically discussing how a person might choose to believe a certain aspect of God is defined, and the definition, whatever it is, will have no practical value whatsoever, other than to separate and divide people who otherwise were in agreement.

unless you could name a single other benefit

You DO have an opinion,and not a positive one since you keep repeating that it's used to separate Christians.

Here's the benefit:
Christianity is based on belief in Jesus.
Jesus has to be God or we're worshipping a man.
So how is Jesus God, if He was a man on earth?

This is how the Trinity comes in.
Simple as that.

I don't believe you've experienced any negative talk on this thread.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

so i dunno, have to think about that some. I would just categorically disagree, but i see also that we might be disagreeing on the definition of "fear" here, somewhat. "Fear" might also be "respect," etc. But i don't think so, tbh. Jesus experienced lust? So see, it can be difficult to know where to draw the line between emotions and convictions i guess.

Fear might be said to result from a conviction, in that argument

No no no.
We're not discussing FEAR as RESPECT.
You're getting this mixed up with US FEARING GOD.
Fear, in that way, is RESPECT.
Proverbs 1:7
Luke 1:50
Philippians 2:12-13

What we are discussing here is the EMOTIONS Jesus felt as a human being.
You do know about the hypostatic union, I hope.

I accept that you do not believe Jesus is God.
That is NO REASON to misunderstand what I am saying.

 

[bbyrd009]

Many who deny the trinity do so because they don't want to believe Jesus is God.

i'm sure this is also true, and it seems to me that they are no better or worse off than those who insist upon Trinity, i guess. (I'm assuming want was the operative word there)

Imo Christ hiding Himself from some Greeks come to worship Him is pretty compelling stuff, so if someone is actually running from commitment to Christ it will become apparent in their other interactions soon enough i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Here's the benefit:
Christianity is based on belief in Jesus.
Jesus has to be God or we're worshipping a man.

ha, you don't think that this is not maybe a bit...self-fulfilling? A circular justification?

 

[bbyrd009]

You DO have an opinion,and not a positive one since you keep repeating that it's used to separate Christians.

that is just the only fruit that i have been able to discern from it in 40 years. But truly i never even consider the doctrine IRL, and my entire interaction with the doctrine is on this forum. For all i know Trinity is a valid enough doctrine even, and maybe it just gets abused sometimes.

 

[bbyrd009]

That is NO REASON to misunderstand what I am saying.

then ya, i pretty much have to disagree with the Christ in Fear thing, don't think you can make that case

 

[101G]

One must have mortality first to be immortal. God the Father is not immortal. He has always been and always will be. God the Son, Jesus Christ however, did put on mortality. And He alone hath immortality, and gives immortality.

So, the Trinity doctrine has not been destroyed.

by your own word you did destroy you trinity doctrine. "God the Father is not immortal". well you just did.