WHAT Is the Trinity?

[Helen]

So...
Are you saying it was God the Father on the cross?
Or was it the Holy Spirit, which Jesus had not sent down yet?
Or was it Jesus, the Word of God become flesh that was on the cross?

Thats what I am talking about...some keep on "chopping up the godhead" into three individual "bits!"

 

[bbyrd009]

First the dictionary, and then the bible. Dictionary. com. Eternal: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal )

Immortal: 1. not mortal; not liable or subject to death. 2. not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting. 3. perpetual; lasting; constant.

Now that we have these definition let’s look at everlasting.
Everlasting: 1. lasting forever; eternal: DO WE NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER? Immortal is eternal.

now, Webster Dictionary a. having infinite duration :everlasting. B. continued without intermission erpetual example: an eternal flame.

"semantics discussion" :)

 

[101G]

So...
Are you saying it was God the Father on the cross?
Or was it the Holy Spirit, which Jesus had not sent down yet?
Or was it Jesus, the Word of God become flesh that was on the cross?

you don't mind if I also answer that question, Yes it was the Holy Ghost on the cross in that body. scripture, Luke 2:25 & 26 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ". GG, and BG I want both of you to notice the word "consolation" here in the verse. it is the Greek word, G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty

see BG and GG, someone who helps or comfort you is a COMFORTER. .. (smile). that's why the Lord said in, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". see he is the comforter/the Holy Spirit shared in FLESH, that hanged on the cross. and in his two fold return, he return without flesh and bone but in Spirit on pentecost. see that's why he said "ANOTHER" G243 allos, which means the same one just without flesh and bone.

I been telling you, the Father is JESUS, the Son is JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT is JESUS. see BG, GG he, the comforter came in flesh the first time, then he came in Spirit and yet to come again in Flesh and bone GLORIFIED. see in John 14: 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". and he did.

peace

 

[101G]

Let's see this Holy Ghost/Jesus clearly.
1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Advocate: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

that's him, the Comforter, Jesus Christ the righteous. John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

 

[OzSpen]

I DO think that this "trinity thing" cannot chop God up into three bits like it does.

BG,

You seem to have misunderstood the doctrine of the Trinity. It doesn't chop God into 3 pieces. This is what it does:

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity....

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit (What Does the Bible Ttach about the Trinity? Got Questions).​

The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are ONE..not three people pretending to be one and think alike.

The explanation above from Scripture disproves this.

I am Body, Soul and Spirit...ALL are " me"...different functions, but ALL me.

I recommend that you do some study of dichotomy vs trichotomy. You have presented trichotomy here and it may be true, but there are some other options.

To say that the Son is not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father...is like saying my voice is not mine..it is still me speaking!!

Not true, BG, according to the Scriptures. I refer you to the biblical evidence above.

It is difficult to get one's head around the teaching on the Trinity, so we have to go with what the Scriptures state and the biblical understanding of Trinity stands head and shoulders above every other explanation I have encountered.

Oz

 

[101G]

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit.

I must disagree with you. you said, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord”. good, question. who is the sent one that saves, scriptures, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". which PERSON of the GODHEAD came and saved us. was it the LORD, (the one you calls Father) or is it the Lord (the one you calls Son). I'll be waiting for that answer.
thanks in advance.

 

[Stranger]

LOL, I must be dreaming, you said, "Big difference between 'immortal' and 'eternal'. Your definition, wherever it came from, says eternal means 'without end or beginning'. But that isn't what it says about 'immortal'.

First the dictionary, and then the bible. Dictionary. com. Eternal: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal )

Immortal: 1. not mortal; not liable or subject to death. 2. not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting. 3. perpetual; lasting; constant.

Now that we have these definition let’s look at everlasting.
Everlasting: 1. lasting forever; eternal: DO WE NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER? Immortal is eternal.

now, Webster Dictionary a. having infinite duration :everlasting. B. continued without intermission erpetual example: an eternal flame.

now the BIBLE. according to 1 Timothy 6:16, the Lord Jesus is "immortal", scripture, Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever". see that "for ever? according to webster dictionary FOR ever means, for a limitless time. do you know what LIMITLESS means? without end. if you don't trust your dictionary, just google limitless.

that's lie #2. don't let it be a third.

Concerning the Bible, I know Jesus is immortal. That is what I have been saying. What I also have been saying is that immortality in the Bible only pertains to those who were already mortal, to those with a body. Something you refuse to look at. Or you have looked at it and thus are trying to ignore it. Thus God the Father is not immortal because He was never mortal.

Immortality speaks to a mortal being who has gotten immortality. Compare your own definitions you gave. Immortality doesn't speak to always existing where as eternal does.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

GG, I'm laughing at your ignorance in the word of God.

did you really read what he said?. I suggest you look at what he wrote very carefully.

ps. can not 101G have some fun?, scripture, 2 Corinthians 11:1 & 2 "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ". do you understand my laughter/folly now.

No.
You cannot have fun by laughing at your brother Christian's,,,
Or anyone for that matter.
Not very christianly of you.

 

[OzSpen]

I must disagree with you. you said, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord”. good, question. who is the sent one that saves, scriptures, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". which PERSON of the GODHEAD came and saved us. was it the LORD, (the one you calls Father) or is it the Lord (the one you calls Son). I'll be waiting for that answer.
thanks in advance.

101G,

Take a read of 1 Tim 1:15-17 (NIV):

15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

There is no conflict between Isaiah 35:4 and 1 Tim 1:15. Isaiah states the God will 'come and save you'. Timothy says that Christ Jesus came 'to save sinners'.

It's not in conflict because Jesus is God as is affirmed by Thomas in John 20 (NIV):

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

There's no clanger of a contradiction. A true understanding of the Trinity accepts that Jesus is God (see also John 1:1) but his function is different from that of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Oz

 

[101G]

Concerning the Bible, I know Jesus is immortal. That is what I have been saying. What I also have been saying is that immortality in the Bible only pertains to those who were already mortal, to those with a body. Something you refuse to look at. Or you have looked at it and thus are trying to ignore it. Thus God the Father is not immortal because He was never mortal.

Immortality speaks to a mortal being who has gotten immortality. Compare your own definitions you gave. Immortality doesn't speak to always existing where as eternal does.

GROSS ERROR, you said, "What I also have been saying is that immortality in the Bible only pertains to those who were already mortal, to those with a body". my answer to that did the lord jesus have a body before he came to earth in one. NO. he is eternal/Immortal before he took on flesh and he's eternal/immortal after he rose with a body. so that want fly either. now that 3 lies.
Good day.

 

[101G]

There is no conflict between Isaiah 35:4 and 1 Tim 1:15. Isaiah states the God will 'come and save you'. Timothy says that Christ Jesus came 'to save sinners'.

se Oz your lying. you said this, "The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord”. now scripture, Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". is not Jesus the Christ Lord. well Oz you have a conflict, because you said, In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord”. well your answer please.

 

[101G]

No.
You cannot have fun by laughing at your brother Christian's
Or anyone for that matter.
Not very christianly of you

Oh yes it is, see you said the correct word, "brother". who is my brother the Lord Jesus said. answer, Matthew 12:48 "But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother". what is the will of God?, to believe on HIM right, listen, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". who is the I AM he? listen, Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed. Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". a BROTHER believe that the LORD is the Lord who is God not a separate Person.

 

[tabletalk]

you don't mind if I also answer that question, Yes it was the Holy Ghost on the cross in that body. scripture, Luke 2:25 & 26 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ". GG, and BG I want both of you to notice the word "consolation" here in the verse. it is the Greek word, G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty

see BG and GG, someone who helps or comfort you is a COMFORTER. .. (smile). that's why the Lord said in, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". see he is the comforter/the Holy Spirit shared in FLESH, that hanged on the cross. and in his two fold return, he return without flesh and bone but in Spirit on pentecost. see that's why he said "ANOTHER" G243 allos, which means the same one just without flesh and bone.

I been telling you, the Father is JESUS, the Son is JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT is JESUS. see BG, GG he, the comforter came in flesh the first time, then he came in Spirit and yet to come again in Flesh and bone GLORIFIED. see in John 14: 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". and he did.

peace

You said above: "the Father is JESUS, the Son is JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT is JESUS..."
Posts # 81 and 95: "Satan can be God" "God can be a good Satan"

If I insert the name Jesus for God:

Jesus is: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Satan. Is this the diversified oneness?

 

[amadeus]

You said above: "the Father is JESUS, the Son is JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT is JESUS..."
Posts # 81 and 95: "Satan can be God" "God can be a good Satan"

If I insert the name Jesus for God:

Jesus is: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Satan. Is this the diversified oneness?

It sounds like what they taught me in the UPC. Hmmm? Non-aligned People usually refer to it as "Oneness, Jesus Only"

 

[tabletalk]

It sounds like what they taught me in the UPC. Hmmm? Non-aligned People usually refer to it as "Oneness, Jesus Only"

I bet they did not teach that Satan can be God, or God can be a good Satan.

 

[Helen]

(101G speaking to @OzSpen )
I must disagree with you. you said, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord”. good, question. who is the sent one that saves, scriptures, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". which PERSON of the GODHEAD came and saved us. was it the LORD, (the one you calls Father) or is it the Lord (the one you calls Son). I'll be waiting for that answer.
thanks in advance.

Hi guys..ref this post...I remember hearing a person sharing on Exodus 3 where God speaks to Moses out of the bush. "Back then" I checked it all out and found it was correct. ( have not re-check)
But he used these verses...and it shows a difference between Lord , LORD, God, Jehovah etc etc...I forget if it was 5 or 7 times in these scriptures talking to Moses, where God calls Himself by His different names , showing the part of His character that He wish to express. ( In the word there are more names than 7 ..we know that.
Again...I'm just butting into someone else's conversation

5 "And He said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is Holy ground.
6 Moreover He said, I Am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people.." etc etc

My old dad used to write in his bible the actual name being used each time the bible said- God, Lord, LORD or etc etc.. So that it was "correct" when he read it. :)

ELOHIM and in Genesis 1:1 it refers to the godhead for ELHOIM is plural and says “In the beginning God [ELOHIM] created the heavens and the earth.”

YHWH- I AM
This as we know is the 'new' name being revealed to Moses..

ADONAI – The Lord is Master
The Hebrew name ADONAI in English means Lord or Master.

JEHOVAH JIREH is speaking about salvation in Genesis 22, God provided a ram to be sacrificed after the Angel of the Lord stopped the knife in Abraham’s hand

EL SHADDIA – The Almighty God
“those who dwell in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty [EL SHADDIA]” (Psalm 91:1).

JEHOVAH SHALOM – The Lord is Peace
“Gideon built an altar there to the Lord and called it, The Lord Is Peace [JEHOVAH SHALOM]." Jug 6:24

JEHOVAH ROHI – The Lord is my Shepherd
"The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want..."etc Ps 23

I wish I still had my dads old bible...it gives a deeper meaning when reading the scriptures.

 

[amadeus]

Be careful @101G for does not the scripture say that "every man is a liar". Indeed all of us have lied, and anyone who is now wrong in any of his pronouncements of the things of God is presently a liar. Are you now always correct?

 

[101G]

You said above: "the Father is JESUS, the Son is JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT is JESUS..."
Posts # 81 and 95: "Satan can be God" "God can be a good Satan"

If I insert the name Jesus for God:

Jesus is: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Satan. Is this the diversified oneness?

first thanks for the response. answer yes, no, yes
lol, "Satan can be God" "God can be a good Satan". this is the first time hearing this, this way. bu a warning, Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!".

 

[amadeus]

I bet they did not teach that Satan can be God, or God can be a good Satan.

No, they never taught that.

 

[101G]

Be careful @101G for does not the scripture say that "every man is a liar". Indeed all of us have lied, and anyone who is now wrong in any of his pronouncements of the things of God is presently a liar. Are you now always correct?

it's not I that speak, if you find anything wrong in the scriptures, or what I say about the scriptures please point it out