Calling all Law Keepers.

[Richard_oti]

And here lies teh problem, we are not perfect, thou many claim to be.. My dad has forever tired to perfect himself, he tries hard, but one day he was driving, I saw he was over the speed limit, let him know, got all embarrassed, and guilt ridden, but you see that is what teh law does, it takes away from Gods grace and adds nothing.

Have I claimed to be "perfect"? If I do not transgress, I have nothing to be embarrassed or guilt ridden about. It takes nothing away from the grace of "God". However, neither should I continue in sin, for that also would add nothing.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes Gods work not yours, these men did works,
'
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Jesus came to do the works of God not His own, just as we are supposed to.

YES, Jesus will say to some "I do not know you".
Read the very next words...
"you who practice LAWLESSNESS".
Mathew 7:23

If we DO NOT follow the law,
we are practicing lawlessness.
Jesus will not know those who do NOT practice the law.

 

[Richard_oti]

Well when you can take a thought captive before it occurs than you will be my hero, but all sin willfully or not.

Is there a difference between "willful sin" and "ignorant sin"?

Let's say a new Christian deliberately chose to remain ignorant of the "Bible" and / or the way(s) of (God) so as not to be accountable, would that be "sin"?

None will stand before Him in their own righteousness. Sad thing is while you sit there trying, many who dont have already being to see teh Lord, not because of what they have done but because of Him, they simply believe Him sadly many dont, still trying to earn there way as if nthey could.

It has nothing to do with "earning" anything.

 

[Helen]

You did notice the "<grin>"? So, are you advocating that it is alright to continue in "sin"? Somehow I would doubt that. Yet, it is through the "instruction" that we come to knowledge of what is "sin".
And such continues to this very day far too often amoung even your variety of Pastor/Church. Should I discount all of Christianity based upon the actions of some?
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
Indubitably.
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
<snip>

Agree and made it bold. Does this not speak to that which is our our hearts? We do because we love...we don't do because "God DEMANDS it" as someone keeps saying..with emphasis.

When I quoted yours, I lost all my quotes between...so it doesn't make much sense to me now.
But, I think maybe we are closer than it seems...I read some others of your posts which I 'liked' so maybe it was just the way i 'read' you , but probably did not understand. ( which is not hard for me to do!)
I just contend that yes, we live the principles of law because we fell in love...being "in Christ" we have kept the law. But when someone keeps hammering away saying how God requires us to keep the law...when Jesus already came and died a cruel death to do that for us...law is not a requirement , we see Paul beseeching..grace is amazing. God is a lover, not a domineering ogre ...Would I do anything to break God heart, no. Grace 'to me' give us a love choice...
Maybe ( obviously) I se it very differently to others.
I just got tired of sitting back and allowing such a wrong picture of God to be painted.
Thanks for the response.

 

[Helen]

I NEVER said I keep the law.
I said we are to keep the law.
That doesn't mean we do.

I guess the above is your answer?

In those posts # I asked :-
Answer truthfully..you, and the others , who put this weight onto believers.

.....Tell us how well you are LIVING IT?

........How well are you actually DOING THIS??


............How is really it working ... YOU??

I was asking because if you keep telling us that we must keep the law...and you believe God demands that we keep His law, if so it also must come with a punishment for breaking that law.
That is why I have asked you these questions more than once...

Above, you just stated that because you say , "it doesn't mean that you do!!"
So, you out of your own mouth are a law breaker. right? = punishment.

I contend that we do not and CANNOT keep the law, that is why Christ died. I can't see why you keep harping on by saying we must keep something which is impossible to do!
I just don't understand your zeal for the law.

I contend that we do not do that which is wrong, because we LOVE God...not because we are scared of Him.
Someone who is scared of their husband is in a life of hell on earth.

 

[mjrhealth]

Is there a difference between "willful sin" and "ignorant sin"?

You sin because you are human, simple, it is why Jesus went to the cross, and you will always sin untill you die or we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, untill than we have grace. I do not know of anyone who does not sin, but I do know a few who are no longer judged fro they have past from death to life, sin is no longer a factor.

 

[mjrhealth]

If we DO NOT follow the law,
we are practicing lawlessness.

Yet here you are following the law and doing the same thing. You really should get to know Jesus, He isnt the hard taskmaster you make Him out to be,

 

[mjrhealth]

You must accept both parts of God.

Yep just not the B*** you have made Him out to be. You seem to do everything out of fear of a demanding God instead of in faith with a loving God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess the above is your answer?

In those posts # I asked :-
Answer truthfully..you, and the others , who put this weight onto believers.

.....Tell us how well you are LIVING IT?

........How well are you actually DOING THIS??


............How is really it working ... YOU??

I was asking because if you keep telling us that we must keep the law...and you believe God demands that we keep His law, if so it also must come with a punishment for breaking that law.
That is why I have asked you these questions more than once...

Above, you just stated that because you say , "it doesn't mean that you do!!"
So, you out of your own mouth are a law breaker. right? = punishment.

I contend that we do not and CANNOT keep the law, that is why Christ died. I can't see why you keep harping on by saying we must keep something which is impossible to do!
I just don't understand you zeal for the law.

I contend that we do not do that which is wrong, because we LOVE God...not because we are scared of Him.
Someone who is scared of their husband is in a life of hell on earth.

Well ByGrace,
I guess there's a fine red line which is difficult to define.
@bbyrd009 says that grace is more difficult to keep than the law.
Do you understand that? I happen to agree with him.

God has not changed.
He's the same God He ever was.
Jesus died to atone for our sins.
No more killing of animals -- Jesus is the last REQUIRED sacrifice.
You see, God required even His own Son to die for us.
Why do you find such a problem with God REQUIRING us to obey the law?

When I worked I was required to be at work every morning at 9 am.
Does this mean I never showed up late?

Because you find the law difficult to keep, does not mean that we shouldn't TRY. Jesus said to be perfect -- I've said before that He meant that we should strive for this. He knew we couldn't be perfect.
Did you think Jesus thought we could??

We are under grace. This is the N.C.
THIS DOES NOT NULLIFY THE LAW.
It just CHANGES how the law is to be KEPT.
BY LOVE.
The OC could not be kept because it had no power for persons to keep it.

The NC has power because Jesus died for us and it inspires love in us to keep the commandments. It's this love that empowers us to obey.
The Holy Spirit was sent purposefully for this reason.

Just because we are under grace and have the Holy Spirit to help us does not mean the law is dead.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law.
He DID NOT make it more difficult to show us that it could not be kept, as YOU believe (and others here).

He made it more difficult BECAUSE now we are under GRACE.
That's what grace does --- it requires more.

Jesus changed the law from an external effort to an internal requirement. Before you just hated your brother... now Jesus said you've killed him! NOT to make you realize that it's impossible NOT to hate, but to make you realize that you must NOT HATE. Hate is of the heart, it's an internal condition - it raises the bar.

But the Holy Spirit is with us. This was the plan. We can now keep the law. And when we fail, we ask forgiveness and continue on.

I don't believe ANYONE here says they are perfect. This would be nonsense. But the fact that we cannot be perfect should not be diminished to the point of saying that we shouldn't even try.

And, I repeat, God does not request, He demands.
God is almighty. This should not bother you so much.
He is the creator. He is love, but He is also just.
He will judge us on our faith in His Son.
He will judge us on what we did with our life.
Did our love bring forth good fruit? Good deeds?
Or was it a dead faith that produced no fruit
and encouraged others to do the same...
by telling them that we are no longer to obey, as I've heard some say.

 

[GodsGrace]

You sin because you are human, simple, it is why Jesus went to the cross, and you will always sin untill you die or we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, untill than we have grace. I do not know of anyone who does not sin, but I do know a few who are no longer judged fro they have past from death to life, sin is no longer a factor.

SIN IS NO LONGER A FACTOR.
God must be rejoicing right now...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yep just not the B*** you have made Him out to be. You seem to do everything out of fear of a demanding God instead of in faith with a loving God.

Have you been paying attention to that post way back there?
What did you just do?
You,
who are of grace...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yet here you are following the law and doing the same thing. You really should get to know Jesus, He isnt the hard taskmaster you make Him out to be,

How do you know so much about me?
Are we married or something??

 

[mjrhealth]

SIN IS NO LONGER A FACTOR.
God must be rejoicing right now...

Wow I think she Got it....

 

[mjrhealth]

How do you know so much about me?
Are we married or something??

Sarcy asm that is a type of japenese food is it not....??

Why dont you tell us all how you keep teh law perfectly. please you seem to say you do it,,, cant be that hard..

 

[mjrhealth]

Have you been paying attention to that post way back there?
What did you just do?
You,
who are of grace...

Actually I am not paying much attention to you at all, see I write in the hope that people will listen, you seem to demand everyone listens, but you being a "teacher": I can see how that is a problem.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

So when men stop listening to men and start listening to Him teh world will stand up and take notice. Till than its all just religion, mens wisdom, mens understanding, mens doctrines mens ways, so little to do with God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you a sinner and a saint?

I am a sinner. Christ is a saint. Because of Christ; I am considered a saint and right with God. I am born of God(Spirit); although my flesh is still corrupt.

Addressing some of the other post:
Matthew 7:23 KJV
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There is NO spirit. No relationship. No Christ. Which means, yes, they are they that work iniquity. They do not know Christ. Of course they are judged by their own works of the flesh.

Matthew 5: 48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
NO ONE can be perfect as the Father is perfect, EXCEPT one and that ONE is Jesus Christ. The only way to be perfect as the Father, is by residing in Jesus Christ's perfection and righteousness...nothing less and nothing short which is what works of the flesh falls under: less and falling short.

Philippians 3:15-21 KJV
[15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. [16] Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, (Christ is the rule) let us mind the same thing. [17] Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. [18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: [19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Vile body? We are to anchor our hope in heaven. I am not called to focus on the things of the flesh(the vile body) and how it fails. God knows, it is vile. That is why the LORD was born in the flesh and was sacrificed. A once and for all ransom for my sin. And yours. I am called to focus ahead on Christ, on His perfection, and His righteousness. I am called to expect to also receive a glorified body. It is wasted effort to weigh myself down with a "vile body" when scripture (the word), Jesus Christ, says to lay it down..."it is finished." There is the joy and the peace and the freedom. Praise God!

If I tell you that I do not sin while in the flesh...then be concerned. Tell me that I lie. But if I tell you that I focus on Christ and His righteousness, and His perfection and trust that He IS enough...then why would you attempt to convince anyone otherwise? Am I saying we should not love the brethren, that we should not do good, or not sin? No. I have read the same verses as you. I am saying if our focus begins with SELF and works of the flesh and that is what dominates our thoughts in belief the action will produce love, good, and strength to turn from sin. Then the foundation is not there and you may end up hearing, Matthew 7: 23 "I never knew you: depart from me"

Am I saying we are not transformed? That we do not change? That there is no evidence of the Spirit? No, not at all. How can we not be transformed and changed unto a good work when our FOCUS is Christ?

We focus first on what He has provided. We cling to Christ's righteousness and perfection. In the OT there was a sacrifice of blood every time there was sin. The blood of the Lamb covers a believer once and for all. Jesus Christ is our covering. He is our coat of righteousness. Our raiment. We don't take it off and put it on. It remains. Romans 5: 19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Proverbs 10:21
The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.

James
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

How can a man be righteous? There is only one way: Only one cover. Only one raiment. The blood of the Lamb.

Luke 13:32 KJV
[32] And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

The flesh is not yet perfect, far from it; I reside in HIS perfection. Not in my own perfection. There, I fix my eyes, on the promise. The moment someone starts putting obligations and works of the flesh onto a person, persuading them it is in the flesh's power to perform the law. Then they bring another person under bondage. Instead of pointing them to Christ and saying "HE is the only way" to perfection.

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Don't go backwards into doubt. Trust that Christ is enough to cover and move forward. Then comes the transformation.

 

[ScottA]

The worst day in Christ, is better than the best day under the law.

 

[mjrhealth]

The worst day in Christ, is better than the best day under the law.

Yes, keep saying that to a friend of mine, how can I have a bad day, even my worst days are not bad days because we Have Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

by being sensitive to others, and not being oblivious to hurting them, like i used to be

doesn't mean i won't accidentally offend someone sometimes; it means i have a remedy now that is above the law.
They do not need to prove my guilt in the face of my denial, if i am not in denial.

Perfect intentions do not mean we are without guilt. All have and do fall short...with One exception, and it is only "in Him' that we are accepted as not falling short of what would otherwise be required under the law.

 

[ScottA]

There is only one correct answer as to how perfection under the law is attained, and that is how Christ attained it. But having attained it, He has overcome the world, which means He is King of kings and Lord of all...and there is, nor can be, another. God is perfection, and there is only One.

So, to any who claim to be perfect, they claim to be God. Better if they had said, they are God's. For, it is Satan who makes himself equal (perfect) to God.