Wrong Teaching on "God's Sovereignty"=Worst Doctrine in Church today!!

[ScottA]

That is not your call, Scott.




You have been misled into a false understanding of the spirit, Scott, and no amount of self-righteous indignation will change that. You must be born again by the Word of God to be saved:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." -- 1Pet 1:23-25 KJV

I don't understand why you don't understand that passage?




I know when someone is speaking foolishness, rather than the Word of God. That is an easy call. The Word of God is written down for all to see.




Until you learn and believe the Word of God, written down for us in the Old and New Testaments, you cannot possibly understand.

Rev

Since you didn't hear it from me, here it is again:

You still dont get it, teh Holy Spirit was given to man so we would not lean on our own understanding, even now here you are telling me what you have learnt based on guess what, your own understanding. No faith in God,

This bit

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

but when you "believe"

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As the disciples wrote later after getting it

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[mjrhealth]

Since you didn't hear it from me, here it is again:

and this bit

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Rev20]

You still dont get it, teh Holy Spirit was given to man so we would not lean on our own understanding, even now here you are telling me what you have learnt based on guess what, your own understanding. No faith in God, This bit

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Your premise is based on a logical fallacy. Those who rely on their own understanding are those who believe they are above the Word of God. My ministry is based on the Word of God, and on this instruction:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" -- 2Tim 4:2-3 KJV

Perhaps that time has come.

but when you "believe"

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As the disciples wrote later after getting it

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Those pretenses are also based on fallacies. It is written that only the Jews received the oracles of God (Rom 3:1-2). Therefore, John was writing to Israelites -- those who actually received the oracles of God. That makes perfect sense when you recall that John was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 10:5-6; Gal 2:9).

This verse by John also identifies his audience as the children of Israel:

"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning." -- 1John 2:7 KJV

Paul was speaking of himself, since he was also an Israelite who received the oracles of God.

Those Israelites who received the oracles, also preached the oracles. Some wrote down what they received, like Peter and Paul, and those books became the New Testament, which is holy spirit.

I know you want to believe your words are holy spirit, but the Word of God says otherwise. It is nothing personal.

Rev

 

[Rev20]

and this bit

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So, Paul preached the gospel. He also wrote about a dozen books on the gospel, including the one you quoted. What is your point?

Perhaps you have taken Paul's words out of context. What did he say right after those two verses you quoted?

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." -- 1Cor 1:19-21 KJV

Did Paul preach his own words, or the words of God? Let's check:

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." -- 1Cor 1:19 KJV

"That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." -- 1Cor 1:31 KJV

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." -- 1Cor 2:9 KJV

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." -- 1Cor 3:19 KJV

"For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?" -- 1Cor 9:9 KJV

"Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope." -- 1Cor 9:10 KJV

"Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." -- 1Cor 10:7 KJV

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." -- 1Cor 10:11 KJV

"In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord." -- 1Cor 14:21 KJV

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." -- 1Cor 15:45 KJV

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." -- 1Cor 15:54 KJV

That is just from 1st Corinthians.

Rev

 

[mjrhealth]

@Rev20 .. so you can quote the bible, so what so can BOL and all the lawyers, even Saul knew teh OT yet for all his studying he didnt know Jesus. You say teh "word of God is your ministry", what you mean to say is you preach teh bible. So even teh devil knows teh bible, did he nor say to Jesus" it is written" Mat 4:6, yet all I see is men arguing over,

Luk 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

yet still denying Christ

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So many have replaced God Jesus and the Holy Spirit with teh bible, and raised it up above even God Himself, so I ask you if God disagrees with teh bible, who is wrong, the bible or God???

I shall have no other Gods before me....

 

[Rev20]

.. so you can quote the bible, so what so can BOL and all the lawyers

That is called "poisoning the well", an old debaters trick. The devil used that trick against Jesus. It will not work against me.

even Saul knew teh OT yet for all his studying he didnt know Jesus.

Which "Saul" are you referring to? King Saul, or the Apostle Paul?

You say teh "word of God is your ministry", what you mean to say is you preach teh bible.

That is true. I do not preach my "feelings", nor do I pretend to have a direct pipeline to the oracles of God through the Holy Spirit, since I am not of the elect Israelites. Rather I do what preachers (honest ones) have been doing from the beginning: I preach the gospel as laid out for us in the new covenant (the new testament).

I strive to ensure I do not add my words, or my "feelings", to the text. For that reason, you will rarely see me writing long, windy, flowery interpretations. Rather, my words tend to serve as pointers to the text, or portions of it. That is, I am more of an exegete, than a pastor.

So even teh devil knows teh bible

More "poisoning the well"? Can you not defend your position without resorting to debating tricks?

did he nor say to Jesus" it is written" Mat 4:6, yet all I see is men arguing over,

Luk 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

yet still denying Christ

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So many have replaced God Jesus and the Holy Spirit with teh bible, and raised it up above even God Himself, so I ask you if God disagrees with teh bible, who is wrong, the bible or God???

I shall have no other Gods before me....

I cannot believe I am reading this. The devil is certainly out in full force, turning Christians away from the written Word of God by casting aspersions against it. You are not going to succeed:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." -- Mar 13:31 KJV

Answer me this: how did Jesus combat the devil? Did Jesus whine about the devil quoting scripture? Or, did Jesus quote other scripture that exposed the deceitfulness of the Devil's cherry-picking?

Rev

 

[mjrhealth]

The devil used that trick against Jesus. It will not work against me.

It seems it has, hes good at it....

Which "Saul" are you referring to? King Saul, or the Apostle Paul?

Should you really need to ask

That is true. I do not preach my "feelings", nor do I pretend to have a direct pipeline to the oracles of God through the Holy Spirit, since I am not of the elect Israelites. Rather I do what preachers (honest ones) have been doing from the beginning: I preach the gospel as laid out for us in the new covenant (the new testament).

I strive to ensure I do not add my words, or my "feelings", to the text. For that reason, you will rarely see me writing long, windy, flowery interpretations. Rather, my words tend to serve as pointers to the text, or portions of it. That is, I am more of an exegete, than a pastor.

I guess you missed this bit

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Thats just your religious speak, to keep men from God, which is all men do, this bit,

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in

yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

More "poisoning the well"? Can you not defend your position without resorting to debating tricks?

Trick, he quoted teh OT scriptures to JEsus, do you think you are smarter than teh devil, he has being poisoning mens minds for years.

I cannot believe I am reading this. The devil is certainly out in full force, turning Christians away from the written Word of God by casting aspersions against it. You are not going to succeed:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." -- Mar 13:31 KJV

Answer me this: how did Jesus combat the devil? Did Jesus whine about the devil quoting scripture? Or, did Jesus quote other scripture that exposed the deceitfulness of the Devil's cherry-picking?

Am i not surprised, go throw scripture at teh devil see where it gets you, go pick and argument with him see who wins. Of course Gods word will never pass away,

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

His words are spirit. even when teh world is gone and teh bible is not, his words will still exist, are you so foolish.

 

[ScottA]

The ministry of "the Oracles of God" were fulfilled in Christ, our new high priest: "It is finished."

 

[Rev20]

Should you really need to ask

Are you refusing to answer that question about "Saul or Paul"?

I guess you missed this bit

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Where does it say the Gentiles were given the oracles of God? You are confusing speaking in tongues (speaking in foreign languages) with the power the Lord gave some of the elect to prophesy and to interpret prophecy, for example, to Paul and Peter.

When someone today claims to be speaking by or with "the holy spirit", the only way we can test their truthfulness is with the written Word. Why are you mocking that method?

Thats just your religious speak, to keep men from God, which is all men do, this bit,

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in

yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

The Pharisees placed their reasoning above the Word, which is what you are doing.

Trick, he quoted teh OT scriptures to JEsus, do you think you are smarter than teh devil, he has being poisoning mens minds for years.

And he still is. He poisoned yours to the point that you are dismissive of the Word of God, unless, of course, you are quoting it.

Am i not surprised, go throw scripture at teh devil see where it gets you, go pick and argument with him see who wins.

Perhaps I already am.

Of course Gods word will never pass away,

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

His words are spirit. even when teh world is gone and teh bible is not, his words will still exist, are you so foolish.

I quoted John 6:63 earlier in this thread, and it was dismissed, much like you are doing with every verse I quote, under the pretense that I am misquoting. Yet, you have not shown any evidence whatsoever that I have misquoted the scripture.

You do know that the scripture says, over and over again, that this world -- this earth -- will last forever, don't you? If not, perhaps you are the fool.

Rev

 

[Rev20]

The ministry of "the Oracles of God" were fulfilled in Christ, our new high priest: "It is finished."

Christ's short work on earth was finished when this was fulfilled, Scott:

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." -- Rom 9:27-28 KJV

That prophecy came from here:

"And though the people of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be saved. He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because the Lord will make a short work in all the world." -- Isa 10:22-23 LXX

Christ's work on earth was not finished until that small remnant was gathered. He sent his disciples to finish the recovery (Matt 10:5-6):

"And he said to me, It is a great thing for thee to be called my servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob, and to recover the dispersion of Israel: behold, I have given thee for the covenant of a race, for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation to the end of the earth." -- Isa 49:6 LXX

Rev

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you refusing to answer that question about "Saul or Pau

No, I would have thought with all your learning it wouldnt have being that hard, but I digress christians love to argue over scripture, Saul you know the one that became Paul, the Pharisee of Pharisees that didnt know Jesus till he had that most wonderful experiences.

Where does it say the Gentiles were given the oracles of God? You are confusing speaking in tongues (speaking in foreign languages) with the power the Lord gave some of the elect to prophesy and to interpret prophecy, for example, to Paul and Peter.

When someone today claims to be speaking by or with "the holy spirit", the only way we can test their truthfulness is with the written Word. Why are you mocking that method?

See you have just put the bible above God Himself, it has become a god before God, and that keeps men from God,

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

But men love to control men, cant let them know God gave them the Holy spirit because than they will loose there positions bit like teh pharisees.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

God give all men that come to Christ His Spirit, this bit,

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

or as JEsus said to Peter

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

or again what Jesus said about teh religious and learned

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

or what Paul said

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

or as Saul put it after his encounter with the resurected Jesus,

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

but men prefer to "try"prove themselves, to show God how smart they are. There are no ten questions about the bible to get into heaven. And so God will continue to,

1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 

[ScottA]

Christ's short work on earth was finished when this was fulfilled, Scott:

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." -- Rom 9:27-28 KJV

That prophecy came from here:

"And though the people of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be saved. He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because the Lord will make a short work in all the world." -- Isa 10:22-23 LXX

Christ's work on earth was not finished until that small remnant was gathered. He sent his disciples to finish the recovery (Matt 10:5-6):

"And he said to me, It is a great thing for thee to be called my servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob, and to recover the dispersion of Israel: behold, I have given thee for the covenant of a race, for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation to the end of the earth." -- Isa 49:6 LXX

Rev

Correct...but that is only half right:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Nonetheless, if you understand the timeless spiritual nature of God, His work is finished "since before the foundation of the world", and yet each fold comes: "first the natural, then the spiritual", within the creation of time...aside from God. But the oracles of God were only given to the natural...then written upon the hearts of the spiritual (those born [again] of the spirit of God).

 

[amadeus]

Where does it say the Gentiles were given the oracles of God?

"Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:" II Cor 3:1-2

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." I Peter 4:11

When someone today claims to be speaking by or with "the holy spirit", the only way we can test their truthfulness is with the written Word. Why are you mocking that method?

The only way a person is able to discern whether someone is speaking by the Holy Spirit is by the Holy Spirit. The written Bible alone as we have seen by the views expressed on this forum and by the multitude of supposedly Christian denominations is not up to the task.

The Pharisees placed their reasoning above the Word, which is what you are doing.

Lots of Bible around but without the quickening of the Holy Spirit they are dead books. An unbeliever quoting the Bible is speaking dead words. A believer quoting the Bible when he is quenching the Holy Spirit in his heart is also speaking dead words.

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

And he still is. He poisoned yours to the point that you are dismissive of the Word of God, unless, of course, you are quoting it.

Our friend @mjrhealth is dismissive of the Bible as the Word, which is not the same thing as what you are saying. You are saying the book itself is the Word of God. It is not. The Word of God is what Jesus is. Jesus is not a book, not even the Bible.

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Rev 19:13

The Bible without the quickening Spirit is a dead carcass. The Holy Spirit does not ever dwell in the dead book. The Holy Spirit dwells in people and then quickens to people the raw words consumed so that they come alive and are then the Word of God.

I quoted John 6:63 earlier in this thread, and it was dismissed, much like you are doing with every verse I quote, under the pretense that I am misquoting. Yet, you have not shown any evidence whatsoever that I have misquoted the scripture.

In that verse is Jesus saying what the apostle Paul was saying in II Cor 3:6 cited above.
Remember also this verse:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Without the Holy Ghost there is no understanding of what God is saying in the scriptures. Too many people reading the scriptures without understanding makes for thousands of denominations wearing the Christian label.

 

[Rev20]

No, I would have thought with all your learning it wouldnt have being that hard, but I digress christians love to argue over scripture, Saul you know the one that became Paul, the Pharisee of Pharisees that didnt know Jesus till he had that most wonderful experiences.

Your writing style is somewhat cryptic, so I thought you were dismissing Paul's epistles.

See you have just put the bible above God Himself

You are bearing false witness, which is a no-no. Ignorance is no excuse.

it has become a god before God, and that keeps men from God,

The Word of God was given to us that we might come to Christ, and that we, in turn, might lead others to Christ. Are you unfamiliar with the parable of the mustard seed? Why are you dismissing the Word of God under suspicious pretenses?

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

That was fulfilled in the last days, which was also the days of Christ's ministry:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" -- Heb 1:1-2 KJV

We are recipients of that spirit through the written Word.

But men love to control men, cant let them know God gave them the Holy spirit because than they will loose there positions bit like teh pharisees.

Do you trust everyone who claims to be speaking from the holy spirit? You would have to be dumber than a box of rocks to believe everyone who makes those claims. Mankind had been plagued by one false prophecy after another for the past 1900 years; and the frequency of new "Antichrists" has been prevalent enough to maintain an Antichrist of the Month Book Club!

Get real.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

God give all men that come to Christ His Spirit, this bit,

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John was speaking to the elect remnant of Israel who actually received those powers -- those who suffered persecution and tribulation for teaching and writing them. Why are you hijacking their glory?

or as JEsus said to Peter

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So, now you are Peter!

or again what Jesus said about teh religious and learned

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

And now you are a "babe"?

or what Paul said

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And now you are an apostle. My, my . . .

or as Saul put it after his encounter with the resurected Jesus,

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

but men prefer to "try"prove themselves, to show God how smart they are. There are no ten questions about the bible to get into heaven. And so God will continue to,

1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

After all that self-righteous misconstruction, it is prudent that we are reminded again of this sequence of instructions Paul gave to Timothy to study and preach the Word:

"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ." -- 2Tim 2:1-3 KJV

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2Tim 2:15 KJV

"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2Tim 3:15-17 KJV

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." -- 2Tim 4:2-5 KJV


Rev

 

[Rev20]

Correct...but that is only half right:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Scott, I interpret the words "another fold" in John 10:16 to be referring to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Remember this prophecy?

"And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore." -- Eze 37:18-26 KJV

There is a similar prophecy in chapter 34 where the Lord specifically states he will seek out his lost sheep:

"For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country . . . I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment . . . And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it." -- Eze 34:11-13, 16, 23-24 KJV

This next passage is important!

"Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God." -- Eze 34:30-31 KJV

So, when the two houses of Jacob were rejoined, they became one flock, one fold, under one shepherd: the son of David, Jesus Christ.

Nonetheless, if you understand the timeless spiritual nature of God, His work is finished "since before the foundation of the world", and yet each fold comes: "first the natural, then the spiritual", within the creation of time...aside from God. But the oracles of God were only given to the natural...then written upon the hearts of the spiritual (those born [again] of the spirit of God).

I don't believe we will every agree on philosophical arguments, Scott.

Rev

 

[mjrhealth]

"Preach the word; be

No one was ever sent out to preach teh bible, it is because of this "delusion" that so many christians dont know Christ. "But Jesus, I read and studied teh bible"?? yet..

Mat_7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

I would rather know Him than "boast" of how smart or learned I am, of which I am not. Saul even came to that conclusion after His encounter with Jesus, so sad to see christians running away from Jesus all teh time.

All you do is keep His children from Him.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

But you are keeping them away.

Luk 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

its all you do.

 

[Rev20]

Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:" II Cor 3:1-2

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." I Peter 4:11

Those are good quotes, amadeus, but they do not address my question, which admittedly was poorly worded:

"Where does it say the Gentiles were given the oracles of God?"

The context of that question was, when did the Gentiles receive direct revelation from God, not who was able to read them after they were received. Paul said, in no uncertain terms, that to the Jews were committed the oracles of God. Today those oracles are called the Bible.

The only way a person is able to discern whether someone is speaking by the Holy Spirit is by the Holy Spirit. The written Bible alone as we have seen by the views expressed on this forum and by the multitude of supposedly Christian denominations is not up to the task.

Lots of Bible around but without the quickening of the Holy Spirit they are dead books. An unbeliever quoting the Bible is speaking dead words. A believer quoting the Bible when he is quenching the Holy Spirit in his heart is also speaking dead words.

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

The "letter" Paul spoke of was the law of Moses. It appears he was telling us to be ministers of the new testament, rather than the old, which is consistent with these passages:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." -- John 5:39-40 KJV

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." -- John 6:63 KJV

But Jesus also said this about his apostles:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." -- John 13:20 KJV

So, the apostles also spoke and wrote the words of Christ.

Our friend @mjrhealth is dismissive of the Bible as the Word, which is not the same thing as what you are saying. You are saying the book itself is the Word of God. It is not. The Word of God is what Jesus is. Jesus is not a book, not even the Bible.

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Rev 19:13

You forgot this part:

"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." -- Rev 19:15 KJV

Where else do we see the word "sword" associated with words?

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." -- Heb 4:12 KJV

"Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" -- Eph 6:16-17 KJV

Until you can prove otherwise, or the Lord instructs me otherwise, I am bound by the written Word of God.

The Bible without the quickening Spirit is a dead carcass. The Holy Spirit does not ever dwell in the dead book. The Holy Spirit dwells in people and then quickens to people the raw words consumed so that they come alive and are then the Word of God.

That is a little too much philosophy for me. Faith comes by hearing the Word:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." -- Rom 10:13-17 KJV

That much we know.

In that verse (John 6:63) is Jesus saying what the apostle Paul was saying in II Cor 3:6 cited above.

Yes. The words of Christ -- the new testament -- is spirit.

Remember also this verse:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Without the Holy Ghost there is no understanding of what God is saying in the scriptures. Too many people reading the scriptures without understanding makes for thousands of denominations wearing the Christian label.

Jesus promised the Comforter to his disciples, amadeus, not to everyone. The promise included showing them things to come, as mentioned in this verse:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [disciples] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." -- John 16:13 KJV

Therefore, the apostles received direct revelation (oracles) from God.

Rev

 

[Rev20]

No one was ever sent out to preach teh bible, it is because of this "delusion" that so many christians dont know Christ. "But Jesus, I read and studied teh bible"?? yet..

At least now I know why I ended up on this board.

Mat_7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

I would rather know Him than "boast" of how smart or learned I am, of which I am not. Saul even came to that conclusion after His encounter with Jesus, so sad to see christians running away from Jesus all teh time.

All you do is keep His children from Him.

You are bearing false witness again.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

But you are keeping them away.

I will agree that you are keeping them away, by leading them astray.

Luk 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

its all you do.

You did bring up a good topic (by accident, of course). Why did Jesus say that we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless we become like a child?

Because the opposite is a hardened heart, like the one that dwells inside you.

Rev

 

[mjrhealth]

You sound just like someone else on this board. And which religion are you going to demand people join. It has never changed, teh religious men keeping our Lords children from Him, cant help themselves. You are on here as like so many, simply out to prove themselves by scripture. I would rather know Jesus by His revelation, which most christians have no interest in.

 

[Rev20]

You are on here as like so many, simply out to prove themselves by scripture. I would rather know Jesus by His revelation, which most christians have no interest in.

I cannot imagine anyone being interested in your imaginary "revelations".

Rev