Wrong Teaching on "God's Sovereignty"=Worst Doctrine in Church today!!

[ScottA]

Scott, I interpret the words "another fold" in John 10:16 to be referring to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Remember this prophecy?

"And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore." -- Eze 37:18-26 KJV

There is a similar prophecy in chapter 34 where the Lord specifically states he will seek out his lost sheep:

"For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country . . . I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment . . . And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it." -- Eze 34:11-13, 16, 23-24 KJV

This next passage is important!

"Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God." -- Eze 34:30-31 KJV

So, when the two houses of Jacob were rejoined, they became one flock, one fold, under one shepherd: the son of David, Jesus Christ.




I don't believe we will every agree on philosophical arguments, Scott.

Rev

Read slowly...

If you will honestly consider all of what you have quoted, you will see that all those things were accomplished at His first coming (when He fed them: Ezekiel 34:23).

Then...couple (fold) that truth with "the dead" and "the living" "in Christ", whom He "brings"...and you will have the two He spoke of: His first and His second coming.

But you misread me. My words are not philosophy, but in spirit and in truth.

 

[mjrhealth]

I cannot imagine anyone being interested in your imaginary "revelations".

Rev

Most carnal christians cant

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

and

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But men are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God.

 

[tabletalk]

Most carnal christians cant

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

and

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But men are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God.

I don't think there are any "carnal christians". A believer no longer has a "carnal mind". His mind serves the Law of God, his flesh serves the law of sin.
Unbelievers "are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God." They cannot please God.

 

[Rev20]

Read slowly...
If you will honestly consider all of what you have quoted, you will see that all those things were accomplished at His first coming (when He fed them: Ezekiel 34:23).

That is exactly what I believe, Scott. All prophecies of restoration of the two houses point to the generation of Christ in the first century. Peter and Paul emphasized the fulfillment of the restoration prophecies in Hosea 1 & 2:

"and ye [are] a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light; who [were] once not a people [the house of Israel], and [are] now the people of God; who had not found kindness [the house of Israel], and now have found kindness." -- 1Pet 2:9-10 YLT

"not only out of [the] Jews, but also out of [the] nations [the disapora], as also in Hosea He saith, "I will call what [is] not My people [the house of Israel]--My people; and her not beloved [the house of Israel]--Beloved," -- Rom 9:24-25 YLT

Most translations of Paul's rendition of the Hosea prophecy are misleading, that is, they lead many to believe Paul was speaking of the Gentiles, rather than the house of Israel scattered among the nations as the Hosea prophecy demands. Young's is a good translation, but Darby's is even better:

"us, whom he has also called, not only from amongst Jews [the house of Judah], but also from amongst nations [the house of Israel]?" -- Rom 9:24 DARBY 1890


For the record, Scott, I always honestly consider what I have quoted. I would never intentionally bring dishonor on the Lord, nor his Word. There are more than enough doing that already.

Then...couple (fold) that truth with "the dead" and "the living" "in Christ", whom He "brings"...and you will have the two He spoke of: His first and His second coming.

I do not interpret the prophecies of the NT in that manner. I believe we are at the end of the "thousand year reign", and Satan has already been released on an unsuspecting, world-wide church. That is, I believe we are here, the highlighted part:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:" -- Rev 20:7-9 KJV

The "breadth of the earth" is the entire earth, by definition. The camp of the saints is the holy temple (Eph 2:19-22), and the beloved city is heavenly New Jerusalem [Heb 12:18-24], both of which are located on heavenly mount Sion.

I eagerly await the fulfillment of this part:

"and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them [Satan and his armies]." -- Rev 20:9 KJV

But you misread me. My words are not philosophy, but in spirit and in truth.

The Word of God is spirit, Scott. Your words are your words.

Rev

 

[Helen]

I don't think there are any "carnal christians". A believer no longer has a "carnal mind". His mind serves the Law of God, his flesh serves the law of sin.
Unbelievers "are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God." They cannot please God.

But that is not what God says..
1 Cor 3 3-9
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ( sounds like this and any other Christian Site or church)
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul;( Protestant or whatever) and another, I am of Apollos;(Catholic or denomination) are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, (right there proves they are Christians)even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are (talking to other Christians)labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."

That sounds to me that there are carnal "Christians"...which are still not yielded and or being led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rev20]

Most carnal christians cant

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. and

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But men are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God.

Please identify those "revelations" you claim to have received from Jesus? I quote you:

"I would rather know Jesus by His revelation, which most christians have no interest in."

If you received revelations from Jesus, please present them. If not, are you merely pretending to have receive revelations from Jesus so you can appear self-righteous? I choose the latter.

Rev

 

[Rev20]

1 Cor 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ( sounds like this and any other Christian Site or church)

If you stumble across a church loaded with Jesus Christ clones, please let me know. Until then, I will fellowship with Christians in my local church.

Rev

 

[tabletalk]

But that is not what God says..
1 Cor 3 3-9
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ( sounds like this and any other Christian Site or church)
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul;( Protestant or whatever) and another, I am of Apollos;(Catholic or denomination) are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, (right there proves they are Christians)even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are (talking to other Christians)labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."

That sounds to me that there are carnal "Christians"...which are still not yielded and or being led by the Holy Spirit.

I think you are right. Thanks for the correction.
But, Paul may be exaggerating here to emphasize his exhortation. It could be that, even though he is talking to people who claim to be believers, they are acting like unbelievers when they "walk like men". So, carnal may be another word for unbeliever, which he is using to exhort them walk by the Spirit, not the flesh.

 

[amadeus]

@Rev20

Amadeus said: Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:" II Cor 3:1-2

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." I Peter 4:11

Rev20 said:
Those are good quotes, amadeus, but they do not address my question, which admittedly was poorly worded:

"Where does it say the Gentiles were given the oracles of God?"

The context of that question was, when did the Gentiles receive direct revelation from God, not who was able to read them after they were received. Paul said, in no uncertain terms, that to the Jews were committed the oracles of God. Today those oracles are called the Bible.

The oracles were as you say given already as per Apostle Paul to the Jews. This was a necessary and important thing because the Holy Spirit was not yet poured out and available to whosoever will, be they Jew or Gentile in the flesh. a Book was needed because the priests, the natural sons of Aaron needed it to know what to do in the course of their work as appointed to them by God through Moses.

Now the Holy Spirit is available. Any direct revelation would be on an individual basis as the Holy Spirit writes in a person's heart [be he natural Jew or Gentile]. The written book is and should be a guide, but we have more available than the Aaronic priests had. There were by the time Jesus arrived on the scene in the flesh many sects of Jews who were guided by the Book as now there are many sects of Christians guided by the Book. The problem then is also the problem now. Too many people reading the Book with their own carnal minds and coming to either wrong conclusions or incomplete conclusions makes for different sects.

If the raw material of scripture is in us for the Holy Spirit in us to quicken, we should have it better than the Israelites of old through their Aaronic priests had it. We at times now do not have it better, because either we do NOT have the Holy Spirit in us or we are quenching that Spirit in us and proceeding according to our own carnal minds perceptions and conclusions. Thus we also have hundreds of sects of Christians leaning on the Bible blindly... or at best darkly without much improvement [growth] being seen.

The different Bible versions would not hurt the situation if the Holy Spirit were always leading us through it, but as I have already said, that is not always happening.

The verses I posted indicate what the situation would be if all of us were always following the lead of the Holy Spirit and the Word was quickened in us, that is... written in our hearts. The oracles of God were not given us in a book but it can be written in our hearts if we are allowing it to happen.

 

[Helen]

I think you are right. Thanks for the correction.
But, Paul may be exaggerating here to emphasize his exhortation. It could be that, even though he is talking to people who claim to be believers, they are acting like unbelievers when they "walk like men". So, carnal may be another word for unbeliever, which he is using to exhort them walk by the Spirit, not the flesh.

Do you know, ( you probably do) that you are a rare bird on this site...not many of us will admit when someone posts something opposite to what they said.
Most would rather choke first rather than say (as I have seen you do MORE THAN ONCE)..."Thank you for the correction".
Bless you..and please 'watch my back' for me, and don't let me get away with anything when I am wrong...which I am sure I am sometimes. (but I wont let my husband hear me say that! ha!)

I still do not believe that 'carnal' in that verse means unbelievers...
But, to qualify that...I believe there are milk believers and meat believers which
I tend to refer to as - believers, and 'believing-believers'.
So maybe we can compromise a bit there on being hard and fast. lol

Bless you. Helen

 

[tabletalk]

Do you know, ( you probably do) that you are a rare bird on this site...not many of us will admit when someone posts something opposite to what they said.
Most would rather choke first rather than say (as I have seen you do MORE THAN ONCE)..."Thank you for the correction".
Bless you..and please 'watch my back' for me and don't let me get away with anything when I am wrong...which I am sure I am sometimes. ( but I wont let my husband hear me say that! ha!)

I still do not believe that carnal in that verse means unbelievers...
But, to qualify that...I believe there are milk believers and meat believers which
I tend to refer to as - believers, and 'believing believers'.
So maybe we can compromise a bit there on being hard and fast. lol

Bless you. Helen

Thanks for the compliment!

 

[amadeus]

@Rev20

Amadeus said: The only way a person is able to discern whether someone is speaking by the Holy Spirit is by the Holy Spirit. The written Bible alone as we have seen by the views expressed on this forum and by the multitude of supposedly Christian denominations is not up to the task.

Lots of Bible around but without the quickening of the Holy Spirit they are dead books. An unbeliever quoting the Bible is speaking dead words. A believer quoting the Bible when he is quenching the Holy Spirit in his heart is also speaking dead words.

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Rev20 said:
The "letter" Paul spoke of was the law of Moses. It appears he was telling us to be ministers of the new testament, rather than the old, which is consistent with these passages:

He was speaking of the law God gave to Moses, but he was also letting us know that there was a new and better way than following the black and white letters of any book. The Jews had a written book given to them by God which is part of our Bible today, but they could not accomplish the keeping of the black and white rules of that book to which Peter testifies here:

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

They could not do it with that book [law given to Moses] and we cannot do it with this book. What we can do is use the power God provided through the Holy Spirit to do now that which for man alone is impossible. The letter without the Spirit was dead in the OT and it is dead now. In the OT men could not do it, but we have more than they had. We have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the Bible [OT plus the NT] is a dead book for us as it was for the children of Israel in the OT.

Rev20 said:
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." -- John 5:39-40 KJV

The Bible contains the right words, but without the Holy Spirit they cannot be understood. Any thing my friend @Rev20 that you understand correctly from the scriptures is because it was quickened in you by the Holy Spirit. The same thing is true for me.

Rev20 said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." -- John 6:63 KJV

The words he is speaking, not the words written in a book. They were written in a book under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as were the words of the OT. It took the Holy Spirit to put them in there correctly and it takes the Holy Spirit to understand them correctly. Have you never met a dedicated atheist who used verses from the Bible to proof his point against Christians?

Rev20 said:
But Jesus also said this about his apostles:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." -- John 13:20 KJV

So, the apostles also spoke and wrote the words of Christ.

They may have written words under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but those words written are like an uninterpreted parable for anyone who reads them without having the Holy Spirit to interpret them.

Amadeus said:
Our friend @mjrhealth is dismissive of the Bible as the Word, which is not the same thing as what you are saying. You are saying the book itself is the Word of God. It is not. The Word of God is what Jesus is. Jesus is not a book, not even the Bible.

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Rev 19:13

Rev20 said:
You forgot this part:

"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." -- Rev 19:15 KJV

Where else do we see the word "sword" associated with words?

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." -- Heb 4:12 KJV

"Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" -- Eph 6:16-17 KJV

Until you can prove otherwise, or the Lord instructs me otherwise, I am bound by the written Word of God.

Being bound by the Word of God is a good thing, but please try to understand. The unopened Bible is not the Word of God even though it may contain the correct raw material, the dead carcass of Jesus. That carcass needs to be resurrected.

The opened Bible is not the Word of God if the reader or hearer does not the have the "ears to hear" and the "eyes to see" of the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

but you do get Easter candy though, i guess...and bunnies, who doesn't like bunnies, right

oh and Christmas presents, under a decorated tree.


lol

 

[bbyrd009]

mostly though you get to have an earthly king, i guess


to relate it to the OP. Which i have not read

 

[amadeus]

@Rev20

Amadeus said:
The Bible without the quickening Spirit is a dead carcass. The Holy Spirit does not ever dwell in the dead book. The Holy Spirit dwells in people and then quickens to people the raw words consumed so that they come alive and are then the Word of God.

Rev20 said:
That is a little too much philosophy for me. Faith comes by hearing the Word:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? andhow shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." -- Rom 10:13-17 KJV

That much we know.

Philosophy it is not.
Jesus or anyone who speaks for God as led by the Holy Spirit with spoken words is speaking words that are Alive.

When you or I quote what is written in the Bible AND we are filled with the Holy Spirit and being led by the Holy Spirit, the words we speak are Alive.

Jesus being the Living Word of God could not speak other than the Living Word. You and I can because we are able to quench the Holy Spirit in favor of the our own spirit and our own carnal conclusions even when we use the written scripture as a basis.

Amadeus said:
Remember also this verse:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Without the Holy Ghost there is no understanding of what God is saying in the scriptures. Too many people reading the scriptures without understanding makes for thousands of denominations wearing the Christian label.

Rev20 said:
Jesus promised the Comforter to his disciples, amadeus, not to everyone. The promise included showing them things to come, as mentioned in this verse:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [disciples] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." -- John 16:13 KJV

Therefore, the apostles received direct revelation (oracles) from God.

The part of your words above underlined and highlighted by me is our problem. That argument is essentially what the RCC argues, which is why we are making no headway here. If you don't believe that the Comforter is for whosoever will, then we may have little hope of reconciling our differences.

I will make another effort to show you something and then you take it from there:

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter." Ecc 4:1

That was the situation in the OT who lived a wrote during those times. They had no comforter, no comforter from God that is. Again read these verses:

"Her filthiness is in her skirts; she remembereth not her last end; therefore she came down wonderfully: she had no comforter. O LORD, behold my affliction: for the enemy hath magnified himself." Lament 1:9

"For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: my children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed." Lament 1:16

But it is not that the Comforter did not exist for see here some promises:

"Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;" Isaiah 51:11-12

So then you would believe that the Comforter is not now for anyone who needs comfort [for who does not], but only for those disciples who follow the man of flesh, Jesus when he was walking on planet earth some 2000 years ago?

You would be left then with Job's complaint:

"I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all." Job 16:2

 

[amadeus]

I don't think there are any "carnal christians". A believer no longer has a "carnal mind". His mind serves the Law of God, his flesh serves the law of sin.
Unbelievers "are carnal, and have no interest in the things of God." They cannot please God.

Except that your point of view makes it more difficult to understand the following words:

"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:10

It ought not to be, but it very often is:

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8

The double minded man is the same one of which the apostle Paul speaks when he speaks on the one hand of the "old man" and on the other the "new man".

"If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Eph 4:21-24

When we let our "old man" mind lead us instead of the "new man" mind, we most certainly cannot please God.

 

[Rev20]

@Rev20
The oracles were as you say given already as per Apostle Paul to the Jews. This was a necessary and important thing because the Holy Spirit was not yet poured out and available to whosoever will, be they Jew or Gentile in the flesh. a Book was needed because the priests, the natural sons of Aaron needed it to know what to do in the course of their work as appointed to them by God through Moses.

Where does it say that?

Now the Holy Spirit is available. Any direct revelation would be on an individual basis as the Holy Spirit writes in a person's heart [be he natural Jew or Gentile]. The written book is and should be a guide, but we have more available than the Aaronic priests had. There were by the time Jesus arrived on the scene in the flesh many sects of Jews who were guided by the Book as now there are many sects of Christians guided by the Book. The problem then is also the problem now. Too many people reading the Book with their own carnal minds and coming to either wrong conclusions or incomplete conclusions makes for different sects.

Where does it say that?

If the raw material of scripture is in us for the Holy Spirit in us to quicken, we should have it better than the Israelites of old through their Aaronic priests had it. We at times now do not have it better, because either we do NOT have the Holy Spirit in us or we are quenching that Spirit in us and proceeding according to our own carnal minds perceptions and conclusions. Thus we also have hundreds of sects of Christians leaning on the Bible blindly... or at best darkly without much improvement [growth] being seen.

Where does it say that?

The different Bible versions would not hurt the situation if the Holy Spirit were always leading us through it, but as I have already said, that is not always happening.

The verses I posted indicate what the situation would be if all of us were always following the lead of the Holy Spirit and the Word was quickened in us, that is... written in our hearts. The oracles of God were not given us in a book but it can be written in our hearts if we are allowing it to happen.

I believe you have been misled, Amadeus.

Rev

PS, what is going on with the fonts on your posts? They seem to jump all over the place when I reply?

 

[amadeus]

Where does it say that?

Where does it say that?

Where does it say that?

I believe you have been misled, Amadeus.

Rev

PS, what is going on with the fonts on your posts? They seem to jump all over the place when I reply?

Sorry about the fonts, I try to make them different from the other person's to make it is easier for my old eyes of flesh to distinguish between my writings and the other guy's. Naturally on longer more complex posts I am more likely to make mistakes. Again, sorry about that. I will try to do better.

As to the "Where does it say that?"
All of it is generally in the scriptures with which you seem to be familiar. I seldom get my answers from other people's writings. They are usually my own written as I respond or more rarely copied and posted from my previous writings which I have saved to my computer. Of course, we differ in so many different places that what I see from scripture may well differ from what you see.

Every time I have quenched the Holy Spirit in me I likely have been misled. The same thing is true of everyone else who is not yet a complete overcomer yet as was Jesus. But, He is still working on me.

 

[Rev20]

He was speaking of the law God gave to Moses, but he was also letting us know that there was a new and better way than following the black and white letters of any book.

New and better way that God's Word? Read it again:

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." -- 2Cor 3:5-6 KJV

Your interpretation makes incorrect assumptions about the "spirit". The true "spirit" is the words of Christ (John 6.63), including the words of those to whom he gave his oracles, such as Peter, Paul, and other NT authors.

The Jews had a written book given to them by God which is part of our Bible today, but they could not accomplish the keeping of the black and white rules of that book to which Peter testifies here:

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

The context of Acts 15:10 was whether new converts should be required to adhere to the laws of Moses, or not. But Jesus had already released Israel from the rudiments of the old covenant by his death.

Besides, the law was given to Israel to serve as their tutor -- their schoolmaster -- ONLY until Christ, at which time he gave Israel the New Covenant -- the New Testament.

They could not do it with that book [law given to Moses] and we cannot do it with this book.

That is a logical fallacy. You are saying, if "A" is true, then "B" is true, without showing a correlation, which you cannot.

Besides, you have not proven "A" is true. Are you saying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and Moses, Elijah, and David) cannot sit down in the kingdom of heaven with Christ since they only had access to the law?

What we can do is use the power God provided through the Holy Spirit to do now that which for man alone is impossible. The letter without the Spirit was dead in the OT and it is dead now. In the OT men could not do it, but we have more than they had. We have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the Bible [OT plus the NT] is a dead book for us as it was for the children of Israel in the OT.

That is where we differ. About 50 years ago I was born of the Word of God, which is spirit.

The Bible contains the right words, but without the Holy Spirit they cannot be understood. Any thing my friend @Rev20 that you understand correctly from the scriptures is because it was quickened in you by the Holy Spirit. The same thing is true for me.

I will agree if you will agree that a key part of that "quickening" is studying the word of God, as we are instructed to do.

The words he is speaking, not the words written in a book. They were written in a book under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as were the words of the OT. It took the Holy Spirit to put them in there correctly and it takes the Holy Spirit to understand them correctly. Have you never met a dedicated atheist who used verses from the Bible to proof his point against Christians?

No. I have met some who tried.

They may have written words under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but those words written are like an uninterpreted parable for anyone who reads them without having the Holy Spirit to interpret them.

I agree that one must be born again:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." -- 1Pet 1:23-25 KJV

What word is Peter referring to? What is the word that is preached?

Being bound by the Word of God is a good thing, but please try to understand. The unopened Bible is not the Word of God even though it may contain the correct raw material, the dead carcass of Jesus. That carcass needs to be resurrected.

That is what I keep trying to tell everyone. READ THE WORD!

The opened Bible is not the Word of God if the reader or hearer does not the have the "ears to hear" and the "eyes to see" of the Holy Spirit.

Some hearts may be hardened beyond repair in the eyes of mere men; but God is longsuffering.

Rev

 

[amadeus]

@Rev20

I am not going into the detail of your response to me on post #119. Thank you for your consideration. We seem to be miles apart. Hopefully both of us will continue to progress toward God and thus closer to each other.

Give God the glory!