The proof of OSAS

[Rollo Tamasi]

But the person in Mathew 13 WAS saved.
He recd the word with JOY.
How does it refer to the REASON why a person doesn't get saved?
I don't understand that...
It shows how salvation was lost.

Yes. Only the last verse explains a person that is saved and STAYS saved...
Mathew 13:23
But it shows basically, how the saved person has to bring forth fruit from the seed. (that bad word "works")

No rocky places is shallowness, a short time is fleeting impressions, when he hears the word with joy, he is an emotional hearer.
An emotional hearer is a shallow place with fleeting impressions.
I don't see any salvation there.

 

[GodsGrace]

No rocky places is shallowness, a short time is fleeting impressions, when he hears the word with joy, he is an emotional hearer.
An emotional hearer is a shallow place with fleeting impressions.
I don't see any salvation there.

Of course you would think this.
It's normal.
But Jesus said the hearer received with joy.
He recd the gospel of salvation with joy.

Jesus said it was temporary, not me.
Can't we believe Jesus?
Mathew 13:21

New American Standard Bible
yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

In Mathew 11:6 Jesus says that those who do not take offense in His words are blessed. Isn't receiving with Joy being blessed??

Matthew 11:6
"And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Of course you would think this.
It's normal.
But Jesus said the hearer received with joy.
He recd the gospel of salvation with joy.

Jesus said it was temporary, not me.
Can't we believe Jesus?
Mathew 13:21

New American Standard Bible
yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

In Mathew 11:6 Jesus says that those who do not take offense in His words are blessed. Isn't receiving with Joy being blessed??

Matthew 11:6
"And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."

The word joy is not interchangeable with being saved.
The word blessed is not interchangeable with being saved.
A person can receive many blessings in life, the greatest blessing is receiving salvation.
Again, the joy has no root, so they quickly fall away for different reasons.

 

[GodsGrace]

The word joy is not interchangeable with being saved.
The word blessed is not interchangeable with being saved.
A person can receive many blessings in life, the greatest blessing is receiving salvation.
Again, the joy has no root, so they quickly fall away for different reasons.

What are they falling away from?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What are they falling away from?

ask them

 

[GodsGrace]

ask them

They're falling away from the belief they once had and no longer have.
But I think we'll end this and agree to disagree.

I just want to say that there was no such concept of osas in the early church,,,the church at Jesus' time or immediately thereafter.

This idea came about in about 1,500 AD with Mr. J. Calvin.
It's a type of Perseverance of the Saints.

But we won't get into that.
You're still my brother in Christ.

Happy?

 

[GodsGrace]

ask them

Yeah. And get that smirk off your face!!

HA!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

They're falling away from the belief they once had and no longer have.
But I think we'll end this and agree to disagree.

I just want to say that there was no such concept of osas in the early church,,,the church at Jesus' time or immediately thereafter.

This idea came about in about 1,500 AD with Mr. J. Calvin.
It's a type of Perseverance of the Saints.

But we won't get into that.
You're still my brother in Christ.

Happy?

Okay, we'll end it here, but remember, there is not a single verse in the Bible that states you can lose your salvation.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Okay, we'll end it here, but remember, there is not a single verse in the Bible that states you can lose your salvation.

You love this smirk and you know it!!!!
HAH!

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay, we'll end it here, but remember, there is not a single verse in the Bible that states you can lose your salvation.

Is there a verse that says you can't lose your salvation?

Romans 15:30-32
Paul is able to go to the believers in Rome with JOY. verse 32
He wishes to be delivered from the disobedient. verse 31
Joy does seem to be associated with believers, as in Mathew 13:20.

1 Peter 1:8-9
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


Romans 15:13
13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

....and Paul said, "you have just lost your salvation,now you need to hurry and get it back before you die".....

 

[GodsGrace]

....and Paul said, "you have just lost your salvation,now you need to hurry and get it back before you die".....

I'm gonna die??

 

[Dcopymope]

Okay, we'll end it here, but remember, there is not a single verse in the Bible that states you can lose your salvation.

You sure about that? So what is Paul saying here?

(Romans 11:18-23) "Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. {19} Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. {20} Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: {21} For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. {22} Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: therwise thou also shalt be cut off. {23} And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."

So do you believe that you would be the exception from any other branch broken off because of lack of faith?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You sure about that? So what is Paul saying here?

So do you believe that you would be the exception from any other branch broken off because of lack of faith?

This verse refers to Matthew 22:13; Matthew 25:30; John 15:6; 1 Corinthians 9:27; , which speak of castaways

 

[Dcopymope]

This verse refers to Matthew 22:13; Matthew 25:30; John 15:6; 1 Corinthians 9:27; , which speak of castaways

Ok, and how do any of these verses prove the once saved always saved doctrine? They along with the verse I cited clearly shows quite the contrary to be the case.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ok, and how do any of these verses prove the once saved always saved doctrine? They along with the verse I cited clearly shows quite the contrary to be the case.

These verses are all castaway verses.
Matthew 22:11-14;

 

[Dcopymope]

These verses are all castaway verses.
Matthew 22:11-14;

Uh huh, and once again, how do these verses prove OSAS? If you were to reject your faith in God and his atonement, do you believe you will be exempt from the fate of any other "castaway"?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Uh huh, and once again, how do these verses prove OSAS? If you were to reject your faith in God and his atonement, do you believe you will be exempt from the fate of any other "castaway"?

are you a computer programmer?
Because I can see you like to run around in loops
I never claimed they proved OSAS
they were never meant to prove OSAS
They were simply meant to show you how far off you are with interpreting Scripture.

 

[Dcopymope]

are you a computer programmer?
Because I can see you like to run around in loops
I never claimed they proved OSAS
they were never meant to prove OSAS
They were simply meant to show you how far off you are with interpreting Scripture.

And you have yet to explain how exactly I was "far off" with my interpretation of scripture. But no, whatever, they prove OSAS is a myth coming from the minds of men and not from his word. I wasn't "far off" in that regard.

 

[bbyrd009]

Is there a verse that says you can't lose your salvation?

lol. there is a verse for any perspective one wants to believe, but that does not mean the perspective will line up with the Book.