Thoughts on Church Unity

[tabletalk]

Hi tabletalk,

When did the first schism in The Church occur?

Mary

I don't know, but it is happening now in the Catholic Church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Church haters, you do have a way with words, but those with Idols need to defend them. Hev you not read with al lyour learning,

Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

What do you think religion and mens churches are. A JW church cannot produce catholics, just as a SDA church cannot produce Anglicans. What is it you do not understand, all mens religions, have there doctrines, there rules, there traditions all divided in themselves so how can they be united in Christ when they all speak a different doctrine.

If you take a white stick and stick it in a red tin of paint, what colour will it become, now take that white stick and put it in a blue tin of paint and what colour will that stick become, it is no different with mens doctrines and religions, is Christ divided.

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Ce, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Learn all you like and you when standing before God will still know nothing, religious men and learned men have great difficulty humbling themselves before God, pride is a terrible thing. I know nothing God, teach me, but men would rather do it there way.

I also don't know why you dislike churches so much.
I went to two different churches: Catholic and Nazarene.
What color is MY stick that got stuck in the paint?
Just because we LEARN, does not mean we also do not know Jesus.
How come YOU can't understand this? Really.
Why is it proudful to think we know anything?
Must I be dumb to be Christian?
BTW, YOU are not dumb...are you not Christian?
You know the bible inside out. Did that not take study??

We're all brothers in Christ. Those that are new, those that know nothing, those that are theologists, etc. those that THINK they know, etc.

I guess we all have a pet peeve.

BTW, I knew Jesus about 10 years before I started to "learn".
Nothing has changed, I just understand Him a lot better.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know, but it is happening now in the Catholic Church.

well c'mon, Prot churches are being completely renovated too, right, i don't think it is limited to RCC churches.

 

[Marymog]

I don't know, but it is happening now in the Catholic Church.

Is a schism bad??? Does it show that the doctrines of The Church are wrong? (Un-biblical)

I am trying to understand what point your trying to make.

Curious Mary

 

[tabletalk]

Is a schism bad??? Does it show that the doctrines of The Church are wrong? (Un-biblical)

I am trying to understand what point your trying to make.

Curious Mary

I made my point in Post #276.

 

[Marymog]

I made my point in Post #276.

Post #276 is my post....

I am guessing you meant post #271?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I made my point in Post #276.

Here is what you said in post #271...

The Catholic Church is the greatest force for schism(disunity) in the Church of God.
They boast in men (the Apostle Peter) and women (the virgin Mary), and many 'saints'.

If the Catholic Church is the greatest force for schism in the Church of God then that means all the Protestant Church schisms are minor and mean nothing? The Catholic Church is bad but the Protestant Churches are just a little tiny bit bad???? Help me out here.....I'm trying to understand what you mean???

You do know a schism is the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences. Soooo historically speaking and to fit the definition of what a schism is: All the Protestant Church's ARE truly "the greatest force for schism in the Church of God" since they are the ones who have broken off from the Catholic Church and then new protestant churches broke off from those protestant churches and those protestant churches broke off from those protestant churches etc. etc. for the last 500 years.

Can you see how your statement is not historically OR factually accurate???

Did you know that some Protestant Churches also boast in men and women and many saints. Are they tied in with the evil Catholic Church also? Or are they ok since they don't have the name Catholic in their title?????

Curious Mary

 

[tabletalk]

Here is what you said in post #271...

The Catholic Church is the greatest force for schism(disunity) in the Church of God.
They boast in men (the Apostle Peter) and women (the virgin Mary), and many 'saints'.

If the Catholic Church is the greatest force for schism in the Church of God then that means all the Protestant Church schisms are minor and mean nothing? The Catholic Church is bad but the Protestant Churches are just a little tiny bit bad???? Help me out here.....I'm trying to understand what you mean???

You do know a schism is the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences. Soooo historically speaking and to fit the definition of what a schism is: All the Protestant Church's ARE truly "the greatest force for schism in the Church of God" since they are the ones who have broken off from the Catholic Church and then new protestant churches broke off from those protestant churches and those protestant churches broke off from those protestant churches etc. etc. for the last 500 years.

Can you see how your statement is not historically OR factually accurate???

Did you know that some Protestant Churches also boast in men and women and many saints. Are they tied in with the evil Catholic Church also? Or are they ok since they don't have the name Catholic in their title?????

Curious Mary

So, is it true that your Church boasts in men?
You claim to be the first Church, so you are the first and foremost schismatic church in the world (with a billion members, I think). Protestant Churches do almost anything you can think of, but are not usually based on the Apostle Peter, or boasting in the Virgin Mary and other saints. And yes, they would be divisive if they did.
Also, Protestants have always been the Church of God, not 'the ones who have broken off from the Catholic Church' as you said.

 

[Marymog]

So, is it true that your Church boasts in men?
You claim to be the first Church, so you are the first and foremost schismatic church in the world (with a billion members, I think). Protestant Churches do almost anything you can think of, but are not usually based on the Apostle Peter, or boasting in the Virgin Mary and other saints. And yes, they would be divisive if they did.
Also, Protestants have always been the Church of God, not 'the ones who have broken off from the Catholic Church' as you said.

Dear Dear tabletalk,

I have a novel idea. Since I asked you MULTIPLE questions....How about if you answer them and then I will answer yours? They call that a conversation. Lets try it again: If the Catholic Church is the greatest force for schism in the Church of God then that means all the Protestant Church schisms are minor and mean nothing? The Catholic Church is bad but the Protestant Churches are just a little, tiny bit bad???? Help me out here.....I'm trying to understand what you mean???

Can you see how your statement is not historically OR factually accurate???

Did you know that some Protestant Churches also boast in men and women and many saints? Are they tied in with the evil Catholic Church also? Or are they ok since they don't have the name Catholic in their title?????

BTW....What church (denomination) do you attend???

Curious Mary

 

[Helen]

Church haters remind me of a professor I had in graduate school - he hated universities and ‘organized education of all kinds’ - we were all supposed to be life long learners - organically interested in acheiving the highest levels of knowledge without the artifical pomposity of degrees and classrooms.

Of course, people who were students of life were completely dismissed by this man - he didn’t recognize them because they were not living up to his ideal of what it meant to be educated without universities. If you weren’t Einstein or Van Gogh, you weren’t doing it correctly.

Even his blantant hypocrisy, collecting grant money in the universities’ name, rings similar. Church haters love the ideals of Christianity without doctrine or dogma; no need to recognize the obvious reliance on both for the concept of God, His Word and everything we know about Him.

Oh Aspen...that is harsh! Church haters"

Just because I ( and others here) don't "go to" a church meetings it doesn't make us "church haters".

 

[pia]

don't "go to" a church

When someone doesn't comprehend the difference, there is little we can do....As I was informed, church is not something we go to, it is something we either are or are not.........Each believer being a 'brick' in His one and ONLY Church .....

 

[aspen]

Oh Aspen...that is harsh! Church haters"

Just because I ( and others here) don't "go to" a church meetings it doesn't make us "church haters".

i think you might be personalizing my post

 

[mjrhealth]

I also don't know why you dislike churches so muc

Again putting words into my mouth, not unexpected...

Just because we LEARN, does not mean we also do not know Jesus.

You would be surprised how much "learning" gets in teh way as does church

How come YOU can't understand this? Really.

I do fully understand - That empty vessel thingy

You know the bible inside out. Did that not take study

Never studied teh bible, I have never read it completely, if it was not for talking to "christians" I would not need to. I need to know Jesus and God, theer are no 10 question about teh bible on entering into heaven.

Do you know my Son?? - that all that matters, everything else is vanity.

More in a bit

 

[mjrhealth]

Continuing on..

And so we have this new young christian, just given herself over to teh Lord, I mean 4really done it, not this. "i repeated teh sinners prayer", nonsense, no this one genuinely has a love for the Lord.
And So God smiles, He has what He desires, and empty vessel, clean on the inside not yet defiled, you know those vessels that Jesus chose to fill with water to turn into wine,, those 144 000 undefiled. that sort.

But alas someone gets a hold of them and says, "you must go to church", and so she does, Picks thse SDA church, walks in teh door, tey say, you want to join our church?? Sign here and being so excited and new she does,

Problem one, she has just gone from being under Christ to being under men, you know that bit about, you can only serve one master...

Any way now she goes to church, does bible study, listens to sermons reads teh bible , does all that "christian" stuff, and so that once empty clean vessel is slowly filled, but not with Gods tryth, Gods wisdom, God understanding nor revelation from God, but mens doctrines, mens truth, mens wisdom mens understand and her own, no longer that lovely vessel that God was rejoicing over, now defiled by mens religions.
But she doesnt like this church so she goes to another one, still same problem, not under teh headship of Christ but still under men, but now the new religion mixes with teh old and she gets confused because they both preach a different gospel, not only that every man has his own ideas of "what is truth" so teh messages are never teh same, depends on teh person preaching even when its teh same story. So that glass is more tainted than ever.

But thankfully God gets in before it too late, she hears His voice and turns away from church, finally she is now under Christ alone, no longer to serve men, but only Jesus, but God has a problem that glass is filled and needs to be emptied, so He can fill it, and that is a real problem

As I said all that religion and study gets in teh way, you must choose who your master is..

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh Aspen...that is harsh! Church haters"

Just because I ( and others here) don't "go to" a church meetings it doesn't make us "church haters".

BG
Persons that don't go to church are not church-haters.
Those that preach against going to church, are church haters.
Those that say that churches only confuse us and are of no value.
That we should stay home and read our bible and have no inter-action with other Christians.

This is not what Jesus wanted. He wanted churches to spring up all over. He told the Apostles to go and preach and baptize.
Mathew 28:19
One cannot baptize if there isn't a church in which to do this. We cannot go around baptizing each other. There must necessarily be preachers and teachers and priests and whatever else is necessary for an organized institution.

This DOES NOT mean that we place our faith in that institution. It's there for our guidance and our understanding of this faith of ours.

§We learn from God, from each other, and from our teachers.
Even Paul said we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves.
Hebrews 10:25

Jesus also said to be of like mind. How do we accomplish this without a "coach"?
1 Corinthians 1:10-13

 

[GodsGrace]

Continuing on..

And so we have this new young christian, just given herself over to teh Lord, I mean 4really done it, not this. "i repeated teh sinners prayer", nonsense, no this one genuinely has a love for the Lord.
And So God smiles, He has what He desires, and empty vessel, clean on the inside not yet defiled, you know those vessels that Jesus chose to fill with water to turn into wine,, those 144 000 undefiled. that sort.

But alas someone gets a hold of them and says, "you must go to church", and so she does, Picks thse SDA church, walks in teh door, tey say, you want to join our church?? Sign here and being so excited and new she does,

Problem one, she has just gone from being under Christ to being under men, you know that bit about, you can only serve one master...

Any way now she goes to church, does bible study, listens to sermons reads teh bible , does all that "christian" stuff, and so that once empty clean vessel is slowly filled, but not with Gods tryth, Gods wisdom, God understanding nor revelation from God, but mens doctrines, mens truth, mens wisdom mens understand and her own, no longer that lovely vessel that God was rejoicing over, now defiled by mens religions.
But she doesnt like this church so she goes to another one, still same problem, not under teh headship of Christ but still under men, but now the new religion mixes with teh old and she gets confused because they both preach a different gospel, not only that every man has his own ideas of "what is truth" so teh messages are never teh same, depends on teh person preaching even when its teh same story. So that glass is more tainted than ever.

But thankfully God gets in before it too late, she hears His voice and turns away from church, finally she is now under Christ alone, no longer to serve men, but only Jesus, but God has a problem that glass is filled and needs to be emptied, so He can fill it, and that is a real problem

As I said all that religion and study gets in teh way, you must choose who your master is..

Once again you express your dislike for churches and then you tell me I put words in your mouth. How much clearer could your dislike of churches be?

The empty vessel needs to be filled with something?
With what?
Our own idea of what God is like?
We each make up our own exegesis (known as eisegesis) and proceed with that truth? How do we know for sure what the truth is?

Please read my reply to ByGrace just above, no. 295.
I could not make myself clearer than this.

If you don't like churches, that is your prerogative.
This does not mean that going to church is a bad idea.
We need to be around persons such as ourselves.

I'd like to see you live someplace where no one understands being born again or knowing Jesus or understanding YOUR p.o.v.
I'd like to see how long it would take before you began to wish you DID have a church to go to.

If you consider this putting words in your mouth, I do apologize for that. But I don't see how you could after your post above...

 

[tabletalk]

When someone doesn't comprehend the difference, there is little we can do....As I was informed, church is not something we go to, it is something we either are or are not.........Each believer being a 'brick' in His one and ONLY Church .....

The god who informed you "church is not something we go to,..." is a liar.
The Lord Jesus says differently.

Acts 9:31
Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

1 Corinthians 11:18
For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.

 

[mjrhealth]

Once again you express your dislike for churches and then you tell me I put words in your mouth. How much clearer could your dislike of churches be?

The empty vessel needs to be filled with something?
With what?
Our own idea of what God is like?
We each make up our own exegesis (known as eisegesis) and proceed with that truth? How do we know for sure what the truth is?

Please read my reply to ByGrace just above, no. 295.
I could not make myself clearer than this.

If you don't like churches, that is your prerogative.
This does not mean that going to church is a bad idea.
We need to be around persons such as ourselves.

I'd like to see you live someplace where no one understands being born again or knowing Jesus or understanding YOUR p.o.v.
I'd like to see how long it would take before you began to wish you DID have a church to go to.

If you consider this putting words in your mouth, I do apologize for that. But I don't see how you could after your post above...

You made your choice. A violinist who desires to become the best, will not sit in a class sharing a teacher, no they will go find the best teacher they can afford and have one on one lessons with them. God gave us His best, His Spirit even Jesus still today rejected of men for the sake of religion...

You can learn from God and learn His wisdom , His truth or you can learn from men, your choice. The more learned and the more religious men become the more difficult it is for God to teach them, minds and hearts corrupted by religion.

 

[mjrhealth]

The god who informed you "church is not something we go to,..." is a liar.
The Lord Jesus says differently.

Acts 9:31
Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

1 Corinthians 11:18
For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.

Calling God a liar to His face, your not the first....

 

[GodsGrace]

You made your choice. A violinist who desires to become the best, will not sit in a class sharing a teacher, no they will go find the best teacher they can afford and have one on one lessons with them. God gave us His best, His Spirit even Jesus still today rejected of men for the sake of religion...

You can learn from God and learn His wisdom , His truth or you can learn from men, your choice. The more learned and the more religious men become the more difficult it is for God to teach them, minds and hearts corrupted by religion.

Yes mj, you've show how much you don't care for church or religion.
I did not put words into your mouth.
So you should not expect that I would do it in the future, as you had said. I usually understand persons pretty well...