It's actually you that is mixing up the difference between called and chosen regarding God's Word, and also the idea of being saved.
You haven't been able to attack any of the Scripture proofs I have shown,
What scriptural
proofs????? You toss out scriptures, but I haven't seen a single one that supports your theory...and that's what I've been trying to tell you every post! It's like you've been posting a picture of a tree and going "ta da! Here is my proof that the sky is purple!" Your 1+1 is just not coming to 2. Sorry.
especially with what our Lord Jesus showed in John 17, and about proof of His doing the choosing of His Apostles, so instead you try to find some other way to pic your false prybar by steering clear of those Scriptures and instead creating false accusations.
No one disputes that Jesus chose the Apostles. What I am asking you to do, and thus far you have failed, spectacularly, is to prove that the bible then goes on to put up distinctions between Christians. Just because I am not a character in scripture does not mean God did not chose me before the foundation of this world. Do you know who told me that? Paul. Or God.
Ephesians 1: 3-9. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who
has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as
he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that
we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he
predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to
the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him
we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
See how I have used
actual words to support my idea? Words that say that
I am chosen by God.
But...if you are so sure that John 17, in general, supports your notion that Jesus is speaking to the Apostles and the Apostles alone.... May I then point out this verse:
"
I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me." John 17:20-21
If you are correct and there are indeed two groups of Christians...one 'chosen' who cannot loose their salvation, and another only 'called' who, it appears, can....then how do they become one? And why is Jesus praying the same prayer for all? It's because he sees them as one, just as he and the Father are one. It is you who is putting categories in scripture that is not there.
Clearly you don't understand God's Word on this matter, but instead want to believe there's no difference between those whom God chooses and The Holy Spirit seals into His service vs. someone who just believes on Him that later falls away.
And concerning Salvation, that is not ultimately up to you or me. But when Jesus answered His Apostles about what they would receive for following Him, and He told them they each would sit upon a throne over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom, THAT DOES MEAN THEY ARE ALREADY SAVED... FOR THEM!
Has Jesus already told you what YOU would receive in His future Kingdom like He did with His Apostles? No, I know He didn't! So goto, keep believing that you have already been told your own reward like them, as if you're saved already.
There are many promises in scripture that I can hold onto. Every Christian can. And I feel very sorry for you that you are living without assurance of you salvation.
Don't you understand. It's
Jesus who did the work. It's
his strength that holds it, ultimately.
Listen to these promises:
"even as
he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that
we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will" -Eph 1:4-5
"
In him we
have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us..." - Eph 1:7-8a
"
In him you also,
when you heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,
were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is
the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory." - Eph 1:13-14
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—
by grace you have been saved—
and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For
by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For
we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." - Eph 2:5-10
Paul is talking to Gentiles here. He is clearly not talking to Apostles. We are saved
now, by Christ. We take on his glory even as he took on our disgrace. Unfair? Yep. Outrageous? Yep. Glorious, absolutely!! That's why he gets all the praise, all the glory. And that's how it should be!
How do you honestly explain that, talking to Gentiles, Paul tells us that before the foundation of the world, God "chose" us to be part of his family through Christ's work? That this work of love will guarantee our inheritance by sealing us with the Holy Spirit, and that it is nothing we can boast of...in other words...we did not play a part of the rescue. But! But, he has saved us, predestined us, loved us, for specific works. Now....that sounds awfully like what you would say would be limited to those Apostles...the "chosen" few. And yet Paul is clearly talking to all Christians here.
You cannot prove the distinction between the two....it does not exist. And you are missing so many of the blessings and promises that we, as children, have now to look ahead to.
Take a hard look at the believer in 1 Corithians 5 that was having sexual intercourse with his own mother. Paul cast that one out of that Church, and then rebuked the members there for not taking care of the matter themselves. Does that mean that one who sinned lost his salvation? No, for Paul mentioned his might being saved in the 'day of Christ', pointing to the time of Christ's future thousand years reign. It's up to Jesus whether that one will be saved, showing Paul knew that particular judgment didn't belong to him (nor us).
So was that believer that Paul cast out, is his salvation equal to Paul's? or to any of Christ's Apostles? Clearly not. Thus the OSAS doctrine of men is a false doctrine. Paul didn't go around saying who was already judged to go to hell, but he did often preach how we are saved in Christ Jesus, IF... we kept in the Faith. Paul always ultimately included a condition of remaining in Christ involving our salvation.
And....more confusion. You say of this man who sinned sexually and Paul tossed out of the Church...that "it's up to Jesus whether that one will be saved, showing Paul knew that particular judgement didn't belong to him (nor us)". Except...haven't you said previously that a 'called' person can choose to dump his faith? Implying it's not, actually up to Jesus, really.
Then you go on and say that this fact...that Paul cast the man out of the Church, means that Paul's salvation is clearly of a higher standard than his.
But you just said that both Paul (and us) cannot judge! You constantly make no sense!
Once again, you are confusing salvation, with gifts, and in this instance...fruit. The man who was sinning sexually, was producing really, really bad fruit. And was clearly unrepentant. You are correct in saying that we must be careful who we declare saved or not. But fruit will have a distinct smell. I think what Paul is saying here is a take on the whole "if you love someone, let them go". The church is a family. If this man's soul truly belonged to God, then being cast out of the church would have been a fairly significant wake up call. God calls his children to be humble, and being tossed out would either have caused him to sink to his knees, or to grow in bitterness. That bitterness may have then lead to the path of humility later on, if he was truly a Christian, or not if he was not a believer. Either way, he was not left sitting pretty in his comfortable spot in the church committing sin he thought was just fine. But in no way...
.no way, do we see this situation leading to a justifying of different salvation classes.