The Inquisitions

[Triumph1300]

Borrowing characters from C. S. Lewis, imagine this dialogue between a junior demon named Wormwood and his wicked uncle Screwtape. This fiendish exchange could have occurred a century ago:

Wormwood: Believers have so many weapons at their disposal. It is difficult to neutralize them. It takes a huge effort just to slow the work of a single Christian.

Screwtape: Your one-on-one approach is inefficient. This is the age of Madison Avenue and mass marketing. If you can undermine their whole group at once, then you’ve accomplished something.

Wormwood: Unfortunately, I’m not highly productive. In the time it takes me to frustrate one believer, I could tempt a dozen heathens.

Screwtape: Don’t lose heart, Wormwood. We are implementing a plan to impair the whole Church with a single ploy.

Wormwood: I don’t see how that will be possible. I see Christians dedicated to warning others about hell. It’s all I can do just to get one of them distracted for a short time.

Screwtape: We are going to use their Leader’s own words.

Wormwood: No! Please don’t. Don’t even joke about using His words. I can’t take it.

Screwtape: If you’re ever going to grow up to be an effective demon, you’re going to have to learn to use the Enemy’s words against Him.

Wormwood: It just seems so dangerous. Which words are you going to use?

Screwtape: “Judge not!”

Wormwood: I don’t understand why He would tell them not to judge. That’s confusing. He commanded His followers to rebuke, admonish, and judge hundreds of times in His Book. And that’s what they’re out there
doing. And I might add, it’s causing me grief.

Screwtape: When their Leader said those words, He was speaking to hypocrites. “Judge not… you hypocrite,” as He said later in the same paragraph.

Wormwood: Yeah, but how are we going to use “Judge not” to neutralize the whole Church?

Screwtape: We’re going to get them to ignore the fact that He was talking to hypocrites. He said that hypocrites should not judge, at least not until they stop doing the wrong deed themselves. But we’re going to make them think none of them should judge, ever.

Wormwood: That’s brilliant… if you can pull it off, that is. I mean, if we can get them to stop judging, then they won’t rebuke the wicked. And they won’t be able to admonish those who are sexually immoral.

Screwtape: It is even more brilliant than you realize. If we can seduce Christians into following the instructions for hypocrites, we will turn them into hypocrites. It’s like government workers who follow foolish rules so precisely they are transformed from human beings into bureaucrats; drones who mindlessly dispense red tape regardless of the misfortune they cause. The slave who willingly obeys his master, begins to conform to the master. If believers willingly submit to an instruction for hypocrites, they will conform to hypocrisy. Eventually, with a little evil luck, we might stop them from confronting unbelievers altogether because, as you know Wormwood, to confront requires judging. And if they don’t judge unbelievers, they are hypocrites, professing the Gospel but denying its power.

Wormwood: Ha, ha. I’m excited. When do we start?

Screwtape: Everything is underway already. Just do your part.

Wormwood: And that is…?

Screwtape: Make sure your targets read as little of the Book as possible. Don’t get too worried if they stick to their favorite twenty cliché verses. But make sure they remain ignorant of most of the Word.

Wormwood: Master, you are brilliant.

Screwtape: You can call me Master if you want, but don’t let the boss hear you.

Hopefully the Church will see Judge Not headed for retirement replaced with Judge Rightly. For as Jesus said, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24).

 

[Helen]

Lol, yes, I have that one too.
Great reading.

Oh agree...great reading...but not books that I in my time ever recommended to new baby Christians!!! .

 

[Triumph1300]

True, might scare them, but reading Christian Forums on the internet might do the same thing.....

 

[Helen]

True, might scare them, but reading Christian Forums on the internet might do the same thing.....

Good one....well said!!

................

 

[mjrhealth]

I love scripture. I don’t love it being twisted by unstable men who don’t understand it.

I will patiently await your evidence.

oh you twist it top your own end

this bit

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Its because you say you see than you condemn yourself, promoting lies as truth.

 

[epostle1]

You are wrong on all counts. I, nor any other individual, has the authority to interpret scripture. Nor does any organisation, including churches. The ONLY authority is the head of the church (and I speak not of a building/denomination) Jesus Christ. If we ask Him the meaning of scripture, will He give us a scorpion?
Your reliance and dependence upon an ecclesiastical body brings with it all the dangers of error because that body is made up of people. How do you know the early church fathers were honest and true to the faith once given to the saints? If the church authority was so infallible, how come it resulted in 3 different popes each accusing the other of being antichrist? Did infallibility mean they were all correct? How come it led to the persecutions and wars of the dark ages resulting in so many innocent deaths to people worshiping God but refusing to submit to papal authority? How come it led to Tetzel, pretending the dead could be released form purgatory with the payment of money?

You got caught in a LIE (again) and you reply with a rant. You stack up the usual protty revisionist lies that take 5 pages to refute. You have no clue what infallibility means. Look it up and get back to me.

 

[Marymog]

Why don't you read some of "silly boy's" Brakelite's Wordpress.
Might be an eye opener for you.

I will. Which article of his do you think is his best?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Just read "John Foxe's Book of Martyrs" written during the reign of Elizabeth 1st of England. Starting with Nero...a history of Martyrs....interesting read.
You'll find them all in there....
You can read the whole book free on line.

http://kotisatama.net/files/kotisatama/Tekstit_ja_kirjat/foxe.pdf

Once again, a book that only focuses on the Catholic Inquisition's and does not speak about the Protestant Inquisition's. This thread is about The Inquisition's.

Are we going to talk about the log or the splinter or both?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

oh you twist it top your own end

this bit

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Its because you say you see than you condemn yourself, promoting lies as truth.

Hmmmm.....no evidence. How sad....You failed AGAIN.

How about this bit: Let's get back to the Inquisition's instead of your weird twisting of scripture????

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

Hmmmm.....no evidence. How sad....You failed AGAIN.

How about this bit: Let's get back to the Inquisition's instead of your weird twisting of scripture????

Mary

Yes lest get back to the cc and why it is written,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

so remain and do so at your own peril. You can deny teh truth but you cant run from it.

 

[Marymog]

Yes lest get back to the cc and why it is written,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

so remain and do so at your own peril. You can deny teh truth but you cant run from it.

Dear friend,

I truly do not understand your way of writing, responding or thinking. I really want to...but you make zero sense to me.

I don't see anything in your response about the Inquisition's. Could you point it out to me? Maybe I'm missing it.

BTW....The word "the" is spelled 'the' not "teh" and it is not "lest" get back...it is "let's" get back. Furthermore, the first word of a sentence is to be capitalized....Your Welcome!!

Mary

 

[Triumph1300]

Well......I don't waste my time anymore responding to Marymog.

Forums are made for discussing topics with like-minded people but every once in a while, a troll will come in and start spewing negative words all over the place.

If forum moderators don't ban them, other members will often respond and before you know it, the thread gets thrown completely off topic and becomes nothing but one big pointless argument.

 

[brakelite]

First: I didn't change the subject to "Protestant Inquisition's". The subject is "The Inquisition's". Scroll up to the top of the page and you will see that is what this subject is about. I didn't change anything and I can't change it. Only the person who named the subject can change it and that person is @tabletalk! The Protestant Church had Inquisition's also. If @tabletalk wants to change the subject to the Catholic Inquisition's only then that's fine. Until then I will continue to comment on The Inquisition's.

I agreed with you that the Protestants persecuted those who disagreed with them. I disagree with you that they were inquisitions. That is merely a Catholic interpolation. The inquisitions as such,were Catholic, were solely only and all Rome. It was their baby, their invention, their mechanism for rooting out heretics. Devised to turn over every stone, look under every rock, to seek behind every bush and under every floor for anyone and everyone that taught, thought, or brought anything into the public or private sphere that even smelt like it wasn't Catholic. This Protestants did not do.

Second: I agree with you. Some on this thread have resorted to name calling inappropriate language; not Mary. That is not very Christian like of them now, is it? I am not responsible for their words or their feelings: THEY ARE. So please don't suggest that my alleged antagonism and red herrings are responsible for their actions/words. They are responsible for them, NOT ME. Please peddle your 'the devil made me do it' excuse with someone else....thank you.

I am not suggesting the devil made them do it at all. I am suggesting that it is a long held practice of Catholics to employ such techniques as to antagonise their opposition. I have seen this elsewhere. I remember reading somewhere that it is a technique used and employed by Jesuits in particular in defending the cause of the papacy. Politicians use it constantly. And it works.

Third: Who's Truth? What Truth? Yours? Who gave YOU the Truth? Who decides The Truth? You? The Baptist? Methodist? Joel Olstean??? Why do others have The Truth but not the men of the Catholic Church? What is your evidence that I have not seeked Him and found Him??? What is your evidence that the men of the Catholic Church have not seeked Him and found Him? I will back up everything I say with either scripture, history and/or facts. The FACT is the Protestants acted just like the Catholics when they tortured, imprisoned and killed men who disagreed with them. The FACT is the Catholic Church has been around for a lot longer than the protestant church so the men of the catholic church had more time to commit more atrocities. To pretend that Protestant atrocities are not just as bad as Catholic atrocities just because there were FEWER is ridiculous. FACT, the secular government carried out those "catholic" atrocities. I will admit they were influenced by The Church.

Mary, there is only one truth. If two people disagree, and one has the truth, then it means the other does not have the truth. I don't have a truth, and someone else have their truth. To decide theological truth, go to scripture. If they disagree on history, go to a reliable source. If two disagree on what the scripture means, sit down together and discuss it until the holy Spirit brings light. That is how truth is revealed. By God and Him alone. Not by shutting down opposition and burning them alive. Nor by what so many Catholics do on these forums, resort to Catholic tradition or the church fathers to sustain their errors. Then calling their opposers' explanations "rants" without meeting any of the issues raised. "To the law and the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them" Isa. 8:20
You said, The FACT is the Protestants acted just like the Catholics....precisely my point. They had been taught to behave like that, more so, they were taught it was a godly righteous act to do so. (See John 16:2) In fact, do you understand that the 'extirpation'
(a good Catholic term if ever there was one) of heresy, the punishment of heretics, the confiscation of all their worldly goods, and the continuing punishment of their families and their children to several generations is all laid out in detail in the canons of the church and must be followed if considered good Catholic practice? This you will NOT find in current Protestant church manuals. When the Catholic church expunges all instruction on how to deal with heresy from their books, and stop expunging the history of how they dealt with heresy, then I will begin to believe there is hope that perhaps the papal system has turned the corner. I do not believe this will happen, because the Catholic system is Antichrist to its very core, and does not know how to change, nor has the will or desire to change. Until the second coming, when that odious persecuting self-righteous whore is given to the flames, I will expose, rebuke, and cry aloud for the abominations done in Israel. My antagonism is not toward you Mary, or Kepha, or Bread of Life, or any other Catholic on this planet, but I hate the system with a vengeance. And if Protestants hadn't changed, then I would be rebuking and hating their system of belief also. I despise violence, particularly when done in the name of God. From anyone, Protestant OR Catholic. There is NO justification for it, but sadly, Rome does justify it, has always done, and will continue to do so .....





Revelation 14:7-12

Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Christian Unity.

 

[tabletalk]

John Frith was burned at the stake for his 'heretical' views on Transubstantiation.
Frith wrote to his friends, "I cannot agree with the divines and other head prelates that it is an article of faith that we must believe - under pain of damnation - that the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ while their form and shape stay the same. Even if this were true, it should not be an article of faith."
On June 20, 1533, John Frith was brought before the bishops of London, Winchester, and Lincoln and condemned to death.

 

[mjrhealth]

Dear friend,

I truly do not understand your way of writing, responding or thinking. I really want to...but you make zero sense to me.

I don't see anything in your response about the Inquisition's. Could you point it out to me? Maybe I'm missing it.

BTW....The word "the" is spelled 'the' not "teh" and it is not "lest" get back...it is "let's" get back. Furthermore, the first word of a sentence is to be capitalized....Your Welcome!!

Mary

oh picking on spelling now thats a sign of running out of word to say, my spelling gets worse not better with age" thats keyboard dyslexia", so deal with it, doesnt bother God, so care less about your ideals.

If you dont want the truth Mary you can always go back to your catholic forums they will love you over there. Your "church" is guilty of much sin, and you choose to be a part of it, you will suffer with her, that is your choice Mary, you are without excuse.

 

[brakelite]

You got caught in a LIE (again) and you reply with a rant.

Ummmm, really? Please elucidate clearly that I may see my trespass and apologise. Please show me how I have lied to you. Or anyone.

 

[Helen]

every once in a while, a troll will come in and start spewing negative words all over the place. If forum moderators don't ban them, other members will often respond and before you know it, the thread gets thrown completely off topic and becomes nothing but one big pointless argument.

Agree and very true.
Trolls have a skill of making the argument go in circles. It becomes a waste of time and the trick is to make people frustrated.
As you mentioned, the best way is not to fall for the desire to answer.
We answer by thinking that we can 'help' them see the truth and understand..but that is not what they are after...they really are not asking genuine question because no answer ever satisfies them. They just rephrase it and ask it again...and again...
Well spotted.

 

[mjrhealth]

We answer by thinking that we can 'help' them see the truth and understand..but that is not what they are after...they really are not asking genuine question because no answer ever satisfies them. They just rephrase it and ask it again...and again..

When you cant change someone, than you do it in the hope that others will see the error, we are not responsible for any ones salvation, but we are responsible for teh words we speak, write which can cause men to stumble, A narrow and difficult path.

 

[Marymog]

I agreed with you that the Protestants persecuted those who disagreed with them. I disagree with you that they were inquisitions. That is merely a Catholic interpolation. The inquisitions as such,were Catholic, were solely only and all Rome. It was their baby, their invention, their mechanism for rooting out heretics. Devised to turn over every stone, look under every rock, to seek behind every bush and under every floor for anyone and everyone that taught, thought, or brought anything into the public or private sphere that even smelt like it wasn't Catholic. This Protestants did not do.

I am not suggesting the devil made them do it at all. I am suggesting that it is a long held practice of Catholics to employ such techniques as to antagonise their opposition. I have seen this elsewhere. I remember reading somewhere that it is a technique used and employed by Jesuits in particular in defending the cause of the papacy. Politicians use it constantly. And it works.

Mary, there is only one truth. If two people disagree, and one has the truth, then it means the other does not have the truth. I don't have a truth, and someone else have their truth. To decide theological truth, go to scripture. If they disagree on history, go to a reliable source. If two disagree on what the scripture means, sit down together and discuss it until the holy Spirit brings light. That is how truth is revealed. By God and Him alone. Not by shutting down opposition and burning them alive. Nor by what so many Catholics do on these forums, resort to Catholic tradition or the church fathers to sustain their errors. Then calling their opposers' explanations "rants" without meeting any of the issues raised. "To the law and the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them" Isa. 8:20
You said, The FACT is the Protestants acted just like the Catholics....precisely my point. They had been taught to behave like that, more so, they were taught it was a godly righteous act to do so. (See John 16:2) In fact, do you understand that the 'extirpation'
(a good Catholic term if ever there was one) of heresy, the punishment of heretics, the confiscation of all their worldly goods, and the continuing punishment of their families and their children to several generations is all laid out in detail in the canons of the church and must be followed if considered good Catholic practice? This you will NOT find in current Protestant church manuals. When the Catholic church expunges all instruction on how to deal with heresy from their books, and stop expunging the history of how they dealt with heresy, then I will begin to believe there is hope that perhaps the papal system has turned the corner. I do not believe this will happen, because the Catholic system is Antichrist to its very core, and does not know how to change, nor has the will or desire to change. Until the second coming, when that odious persecuting self-righteous whore is given to the flames, I will expose, rebuke, and cry aloud for the abominations done in Israel. My antagonism is not toward you Mary, or Kepha, or Bread of Life, or any other Catholic on this planet, but I hate the system with a vengeance. And if Protestants hadn't changed, then I would be rebuking and hating their system of belief also. I despise violence, particularly when done in the name of God. From anyone, Protestant OR Catholic. There is NO justification for it, but sadly, Rome does justify it, has always done, and will continue to do so .....

Revelation 14:7-12

Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Christian Unity.

Well, I guess if you change the dictionary meaning of inquisition to Catholics who inquire or examine then you are right...congratulations!! Hooray!!

The protestants did the EXACT SAME THING the Catholics did....but we can't call it Inquisition's now can we?????.....WEIRD And dishonest!! Your blatant anti-Catholicism has blinded you and made you irrelevant. Who do you choose to protect The Truth of scripture??? You and your braklite website that will be gone after your soul has left your body??? Or the Catholic Church who has been doing it for 2,000 plus years and consistent in their doctrine. How about a Protestant Church that changes their doctrine every 10 years.....That's a real good idea.

They were calling me names and using inappropriate language toward me...... but I am still wrong??? Fascinating!!! Since the devil didn't make them be antichrist like what are you suggesting??? That I made them do it???? I am not responsible for their words or their feelings: THEY ARE. So please don't suggest that my alleged antagonism and red herrings are responsible for their actions/words. They are responsible for their words, NOT ME, NOT YOU....They are. Lets try something real simple and what we teach our children: TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS AND WORDS!! Stop making excuses for them!!! An apology would be in order...but I don't see that happening

Have you read ANYTHING on this website in the last several days???? This website is FULL of "techniques to antagonize their opposition"....according to your statement...EVERYONE ON HERE CATHOLIC....Look at the log instead of the splinter!!!!

Have you read scripture?????? If two people disagree....THEY TAKE IT TO THE CHURCH!!! Scripture doesn't say GO BACK TO SCRIPTURE!!! That makes ZERO sense and is OPPOSITE of what Scripture says!!!

You keep saying that the Protestants of the reformation time frame were taught to act like that.....That make ZERO sense!!! They were taught that is was OK to torture, imprison and KILL people that disagreed with them so they thought it was OK to do that??? Are you serious???

The Protestant Reformers KNEW for a FACT that BAPTISM did not save you and TRANSUBTANTION was not scriptural and they believed we could all go to heaven based on FAITH ALONE. They knew that the Catholic Church got all of that wrong.....BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW TORTURE AND KILLING WAS WRONG??? And your excuse for them is because that is the way the were raised by their evil, cruel Catholic Pope....ARE YOU SERIOUS??????

Your statement about Catholics expunging the history of how they dealt with heresy is bizarre and not based on facts. The Pope has publically apologized for the Inquisition. Go to any legitimate Catholic website and it is talked about openly.

I am sorry I wasted all this time with you. You are either so anti-Catholic that you are blinded or you are ignorant of your Christian History and current events.

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

The protestants did the EXACT SAME THING the Catholics did....but we can't call it Inquisition's now can we?????.....WEIRD And dishonest!! You

one evil does not justify another, its why she is called,

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

the protestants are children of mother, they are your brothers and sisters in blood and crime, so you should be nice to them. your all part of teh same family.