Are we divine ???

[bbyrd009]

What is the point if I point out that God's intent for the earth is to make it like heaven

i thought in your perspective all that had already been accomplished somehow, so i don't understand how any unfulfilled "intent" can even be perceived in that model. "Intent" implies change imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

if you just turn around and want heaven to be like the earth? Is that really what you want?

wadr i also don't see how "on earth as it is in heaven" = "want heaven to be like the earth"

 

[bbyrd009]

He never mentions a tree because it doesnt concern us.

hmm. i would say that we are the tree, when we bear its fruits, but prolly just a semantics difference maybe

 

[Dcopymope]

wadr i also don't see how "on earth as it is in heaven" = "want heaven to be like the earth"

You have to understand the mindset of Gnosticism. To them, the flesh equals "bad", while the spirit equals "good", by default of it being "flesh" and "spirit". God created it and calls it "very good" while the gnostics calls it "very bad", and even calls the being that created the flesh an imposter who imagined himself to be the one true God. This kind of garbage has crept its why into the thoughts of many Christians and they don't even realize it, and I can't freaking STAND it, as they sit here pretending to know more about heaven than what is written in Gods word.

 

[bbyrd009]

You have to understand the mindset of Gnosticism. To them, the flesh equals "bad", while the spirit equals "good", by default of it being "flesh" and "spirit". God created it and calls it "very good" while the gnostics calls it "very bad", and even calls the being that created the flesh an imposter who imagined himself to be the one true God. This kind of garbage has crept its why into the thoughts of many Christians and they don't even realize it, and I can't freaking STAND it, as they sit here pretending to know more about heaven than what is written in Gods word.

ha, used to drive me nuts too, but now i see it more as just a glimpse of the path a person is on, that they might abandon tomorrow iow, even as a new seeker takes his place.
Which kid do you get more "angry" at, iow,

 

[ScottA]

Spare me the foolishness, I've seen enough of it. Anybody with eyes to see and ears to hear knows why its called the tree of life. If it wasn't obvious to you just reading Genesis, then it's been revealed in Revelation, which is, you know, why its called Revelation. There is no mystery to it, its not rocket science, no matter how much you try and make it so. Its called the tree of life because Jesus Christ is the life giving source of the tree itself. When he called himself "the life", he meant exactly what he said. Once again, YOU and I and rest of those calling themselves saved won't need it, because for us, Jesus is the life. Our mortal flesh will be made immortal like the second Adam. He never mentions a tree because it doesnt concern us. The tree will be for the rest of the world, for THEIR healing, because they don't get the "glorified body".

You have made a doctrine of your own interpretations...

The tree of Life is Jesus.

But you make it another tree, which is another Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

i thought in your perspective all that had already been accomplished somehow, so i don't understand how any unfulfilled "intent" can even be perceived in that model. "Intent" implies change imo.

Because I have told you the truth that all was finished before the foundation of the world just as it is written, don't think that I mean that it all does not now unfold in our sight and in our ears. But rather, just as God [is] ("I am"), we also [are]. Both what was finished before, and what now is, is written - they are one and the same.

wadr i also don't see how "on earth as it is in heaven" = "want heaven to be like the earth"

Because your emphasis is on the world, not seeking first the kingdom, but the other way around, as if the world and the old earth are the same. As if to say that the world is the evolution of God rather than a prison from which the captives are set free.

 

[Helen]

Many people, I believe, have been talked out of the best part of their faith, which was before they knew so much that men had taught them.

A true saying!!!
Trouble is John..who was at fault?
We are told to "go to church"...but when he do we unlearn FAITH in no time.
What is the answer..seriously?

 

[Helen]

Many people, I believe, have been talked out of the best part of their faith, which was before they knew so much that men had taught them.

Lets face it...anyone new or young Christian coming on this Site could well be talking out of their little bit of new faith pretty darn quickly. I sure don't read much in the faith line on here any given day!!!!!

I've been at this game a long time...and even mine is getting eroded away.

 

[OzSpen]

Lets face it...anyone new or young Christian coming on this Site could well be talking out of their little bit of new faith pretty darn quickly. I sure don't read much in the faith line on here any given day!!!!!

I've been at this game a long time...and even mine is getting eroded away.

ByGrace,

This is an excellent point. There is a fair bit of hairy doctrine promoted on may Christian forums on the Internet and this one is no exception. As but one example, see the statement above: "Its (sic) called the tree of life because Jesus Christ is the life giving source of the tree itself. When he called himself "the life", he meant exactly what he said".

So that I understand your perspective, would you be so kind as to help me how your faith "is getting eroded away"? Are there seeds of doubt being sown in your mind that are growing into faithless 'belief'? How is this happening for you?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

What is the point if I point out that God's intent for the earth is to make it like heaven, if you just turn around and want heaven to be like the earth? Is that really what you want?

So is the contemporary earth getting more and more like heaven? See HERE.

 

[Helen]

So that I understand your perspective, would you be so kind as to help me how your faith "is getting eroded away"? Are there seeds of doubt being sown in your mind that are growing into faithless 'belief'? How is this happening for you?

Oz

Thanks Oz

Like you and many, I am guessing, I have been on all kinds of Christian forums over the last 15 years.
I usually "bow-out" and withdraw from the Site when it gets what I call negative.
I mean by that, when there are more argumentative and negative posting than uplifting positive ones.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind strong disagreements at all, if done in a positive attitude. ( my husband and I often disagree..but we don't get bent out of shape. :) )
It may just be me...but it seems that when I come on here these days, there is always an argument going on in the majority of threads.
When I spoke of eroding faith, I din't so much mean in my faith in God Himself...but I mean here. I reads most of the threads and have no desire to say anything any more...all the arguments are so alike...( especially the stupid anti-catholic ones.)
I guess I have the Nero image. There he was, playing his fiddle while Rome burned around him. ( Not a good analogy )
He was are quibbling about silly things when all God wants is our attention.
I believe in the Conspiracy ( don't laugh) I believe in the not too far future (closer than we think) anything "Christian" will be banned.
It has already started. A set up ready for the false prophet and anti-christ to step into the lime light.
Yet we seem to just be marking time, and acting as "life as usual" is just going to continue. It wont.
When I listen to worship music my soul is lifted God-ward.
When I pray, my soul is lifted God-ward.
I come on this Site now, and my soul is dragged downward.
And my faith in my brothers and sisters is somewhat eroded. None of us are perfect outside of the Lord....I don't expect that!! But when I read posts I look for those things which have a heart after the things of the Lord. Rather than "you are wrong and I am right " about some scripture.

I have been on this christian walk for 56 years now...today I was thinking, " Why visit the Site , it just depresses me..."

God has not told me to withdraw from it. But I am waiting to see what to do.
Sad, because it used to be a good fun Christian Site with many interesting discussions going on. ( I look around and notice that some of the people who wrote good interesting life giving posts have gone. That makes me sad too)
Honestly Doctrine does not bother me as much... As I have said before...when we all get to glory, God will not examine out doctrine...but our fruit and our love.

I hope I have answered your questions, but maybe I haven't done it very well. Sorry.
( passed the middle of March and it's STILL snowing here in Canada for us...maybe that is why I am feeling low!! :) )

Bless you...Helen.

 

[ScottA]

So is the contemporary earth getting more and more like heaven? See HERE.

The old earth, no, it is passing away. But the new earth, yes, more and more like heaven.

 

[jaybird]

You have to understand the mindset of Gnosticism. To them, the flesh equals "bad", while the spirit equals "good", by default of it being "flesh" and "spirit". God created it and calls it "very good" while the gnostics calls it "very bad", and even calls the being that created the flesh an imposter who imagined himself to be the one true God. This kind of garbage has crept its why into the thoughts of many Christians and they don't even realize it, and I can't freaking STAND it, as they sit here pretending to know more about heaven than what is written in Gods word.

our own canon bibles today say the flesh is is bad. thats hardly a gnostic thing, its more of a "Jesus and the 12" thing.
the gnostics also didnt believe the Father of Jesus was an imposter god. this is just roman disinformation. most all the bad things about gnostics are from roman sources. the gnostics had different theology, we know it was different as the theology coming out of rome lead to massive bloodshed and the death and destruction of millions, the gnostics didnt do this.

 

[amadeus]

A true saying!!!
Trouble is John..who was at fault?
We are told to "go to church"...but when he do we unlearn FAITH in no time.
What is the answer..seriously?

The answer is that God does use men to spread truth, but sometimes those men mix God's truth with some of their delusions or errors or misunderstandings. If we really love God's truth and continue to ask and pray He will continue to sort it out for us little by little as we continue on the pathway toward Him. If our hearts are right and we were working at what He wanted us to work at in the way He wanted us to work at the end of our course, will He not say "Well done thou good and faithful servant"? I believe so.

This is not unlearning faith, not real faith. It is separating the wheat from the chaff, and real faith will not be cast aside by a heart that really loves God.

When God called me to Him in 1976, one major obstacle for me for a long time was what I had learned in college. Much of that had to be unlearned in order to approach God more closely. The same thing is true of what we learn also from Bible preachers and teachers, both offline and online. This is why the gift of the Holy Spirit is very important. This the One that can do the sifting properly if we are not too often quenching the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[amadeus]

Lets face it...anyone new or young Christian coming on this Site could well be talking out of their little bit of new faith pretty darn quickly. I sure don't read much in the faith line on here any given day!!!!!

I've been at this game a long time...and even mine is getting eroded away.

God wants us to use everything that He gave us. This means both brain and faith. It means learning to surrender and to follow the Holy Spirit.

The problem for many believers is that they have learned to use the head and have had that too often pounded into them to the point where, I believe, they trust their head more than their heart. Their faith, if it is anywhere, is in their heart. I am certainly not against discussion of scripture and the use of the logic, but I came to recognize a long time ago [God had to show me some things the hard way] that if we want to get closer to Him we must humble ourselves and surrender ourselves repeatedly to Him. Study alone is NOT the Way to God. God is not against study and neither am I, but too much study of the scripture without being led and directed by the Holy Spirit is a weariness of the flesh.

If our teachers are being led mostly by the flesh and we are following or being led mostly by our flesh all of the knowledge gained that way is in vain. We need to learn to talk to God every day and somehow be on the approach to that "rejoicing in the Lord always" and that "praying without ceasing". If we are not striving to do that, we may find ourselves coming up seriously short with God.

 

[amadeus]

I believe in the Conspiracy ( don't laugh) I believe in the not too far future (closer than we think) anything "Christian" will be banned.
It has already started.

Yes, it most certainly has started although many calling themselves Christian are too blind to see it. Part of it is simply changing the definition of what a Christian is. We see that happening not just out there where many people are atheists or acts like they are, but also in the places such as this one where supposedly most or all are already believers in Christ. I have read enough about Nazi Germany to recognize that what happened to the German Christians then is happening in the United States now. The Germans did not see it because Hitler and his elite few knew how to keep blinders over their eyes until he had enough control to do what he wanted without regard for the few willing to risk their live by actively going again him. I wish I did not see it here... but I do.

A set up ready for the false prophet and anti-christ to step into the lime light.
Yet we seem to just be marking time, and acting as "life as usual" is just going to continue. It wont.
When I listen to worship music my soul is lifted God-ward.
When I pray, my soul is lifted God-ward.
I come on this Site now, and my soul is dragged downward.
And my faith in my brothers and sisters is somewhat eroded. None of us are perfect outside of the Lord....I don't expect that!! But when I read posts I look for those things which have a heart after the things of the Lord. Rather than "you are wrong and I am right " about some scripture.

I have been on this christian walk for 56 years now...today I was thinking, " Why visit the Site , it just depresses me..."

Every time you plan to visit this forum... or any Christian forum, first pray! Pray earnestly until you know you have touched God. You could quit, but don't do that unless you are certain that that is what God wants.

God has not told me to withdraw from it. But I am waiting to see what to do.
Sad, because it used to be a good fun Christian Site with many interesting discussions going on.

Yes, it at times has at times been interesting and fun, but if God brought us here it was NOT just to satisfy our interests or for us to enjoy our time here. Those things may be given to us at times, but God's purpose for us the what must matter the most.

Honestly Doctrine does not bother me as much... As I have said before...when we all get to glory, God will not examine out doctrine...but our fruit and our love.

Amen!

 

[pia]

Yes, it at times has at times been interesting and fun, but if God brought us here it was NOT just to satisfy our interests or for us to enjoy our time here

I was naive enough to believe that a Christian forum would be, Christians sharing, believing, lifting each other up, praising God and so on...Each to be able to add to the body by what God has shown them, so we can be knit together...But that is most assuredly NOT what I found.....This reminds me more of like an old Roman Colosseum, being in the middle and a bunch of roaring lions coming at me, to tear me to pieces hahaha, with a few of the other believers here on the forum in this same position...........I know this is NOT what the Lord desires, and yet none of us can really get anywhere with it..A couple of us have been able to receive and give to one another, wonderful things, which help us put the bigger picture together....praise God, not all are so full of pride ( I know we all posses it ) that they don't have room for any new word or additional understanding, as if these others know 100% of all there is to and about God.....It is extremely unfruitful and in some cases very dangerous to ones soul.
How on earth are unbelievers going to come to Jesus, while a 'war' between the religious and the believing is still going ? Rather, it has gotten much worse on the one hand, but thankfully at least many have heard the call from the Lord to :" Come out of her, my people", she is a false bride and NOT the Bride of Christ....
I would not like to lose contact with a couple of the people here, but I must say, I don't think I will stay much longer......Mostly it just stops me from doing things with my time which would be a lot more useful.
Anyway, thanks for all your great posts...I have thoroughly enjoyed them....I won't have to lose contact with you thankfully, so thank you for that....:)

 

[OzSpen]

The old earth, no, it is passing away. But the new earth, yes, more and more like heaven.

So where can I view this new earth so I can go to take a look?

 

[pia]

@"ByGrace" I would like to add that I was shown a full on vision from and with Jesus, wherein I was led ( after some other things took place) into a marvelous garden which had a huge tree, but oddly it had different fruits on it.. I was offered :" Come, eat." I knew I could choose whichever fruit I desired and the first I chose 'said' Wisdom . It was as if the name was written on each fruit...This one was so big I had to hold it with both of my hands..The second fruit I chose was Self Control, which was much smaller and only required one hand, and then I was full..I couldn't eat any more at that stage, and the vision went on, to where I was asked to 'Come, rest', wherein I leaned up against a different, much smaller tree without any fruit on it....It was absolutely astonishing and helped me through many years.