Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

Right, but believers follow the law out of love, not religion.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.



Believers follow the law out of love, not religion.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.



Well, that's the difference isn't it. Believers feel remorseful when they sin. I believe it's called Godly sorrow.



Well, what are your thoughts on Godly sorrow and sanctification.

Believers already know that there is nothing they can do to keep their salvation, but they also know that they have authority over sin, which gives them the "passion" to walk away from sin and become more like Christ. It's a life long process.

It doesn't matter why you follow the moral law...
But it must be followed.

And you didn't explain sanctification.
Sanctification is an on-going process which lasts all life-long.
It's a work between us and God and requires our obeying Him.
We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but to say that Jesus does it all through us is removing our responsibility toward sin. If we say that Jesus does it all, then He fails when we sin.

Jesus works through us through the Holy Spirit which He said He would send as a helper to us. But He does NOT do it ALL for us...we have the responsibility to do the obeying. Jesus cannot judge Himself...He judges US.
John 5:28-29

 

[GodsGrace]

Sanctification is to make something set apart, holy, purified, free from sin.

It is Part of the Change God makes in a man who has submitted to the Lord in belief in his heart.

It is a prescribed binding rules given to particular people, under the authority of a particular to enforce the rule.



No.
Laws are for the unknowing and unruly.

Sanctification is a gift from God, setting men with Him apart from men who are against Him.



It doesn't. What Scripture says is; All the "commandments" all together hang on two things...
.1) Love the Lord with your All
.2) Love all people.

None of the commandments can be accomplished by a man, without the Lord.

A man who has the Indwelling Spirit of God...
Is accomplished, forgiven, set apart, freed from sin, Loves the Lord, Loves other People;
By the Lord Power, not his own.

God Bless,
Taken

Hi Taken,
I think I was talking to Hebrews12 and have replied to him.
I'll repeat...

As to sanctification, I explained it in post no. 1781. It seems kind of the same as what you say, except you say it makes one free from sin. I've never heard this before. Do you mean during our lifetime? Do you mean that YOU never sin?
This would go against what the N.T. teaches, as in 1 John 1.
Here is sanctifiction again:
Sanctification is an on-going process which lasts all life-long.
It's a work between us and God and requires our obeying Him.
We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but to say that Jesus does it all through us is removing our responsibility toward sin. If we say that Jesus does it all, then He fails when we sin.

As to the Law. The Laws in the O.T. were to create a civil society for the Hebrews, Israelites and Jews. There were civil laws, ceremonial laws, and moral laws. Jesus did away with the ceremonial laws, one of which was sacrficing animals, and also some civil laws, which was, for example, how to marry and how to divorce. (Jesus spoke against divorce). However, the moral law was not abolished. This would be the 10 commandments, which, as you said, are contained in the two Great Commandments Jesus left us with. §The fact the His two commandments will naturally cause one to follow the 10 means that the 10 are still in force. Just because we're washed by the blood and can be forgiven does not mean we are allowed to lie, murder, steal, etc.

I agree that the Old Covenant did not work and we do much better under the New Covenant, being helped by the Holy Spirit which Jesus sent to us and who indwells us with His presence.

You again mention that we are thus without sin.
We all sin or we make God to be a liar.
1 John 1:10

(not that we should look forward to sinning!)

 

[GodsGrace]

How many people do you know, personally, who never sin?



You said: "The sealing of the Holy Spirit is true. We are sealed as an earnest. As a down payment, as assurance of an intent to pay. But we must make the payment to receive what was promised in the end."

I didn't, and never could, pay for the grace I received which saved me.

No one could.
Only Jesus could pay for it.
That's why it's important to stay with Jesus all our life and never abandon Him so He could make payment for us at the end of our life.

 

[mjrhealth]

so He could make payment for us at the end of our life.

Payment is done, it is finished.

 

[Taken]

It doesn't matter why you follow the moral law...
But it must be followed.

Obeying a LAW,
By a mans effort is a FAIL.

OT men had umpteen LAWS.
They could not KEEP in obedience TO the LAWS.

The thing about A LAW, is it is either POSITIVE; a Directive.
Or
NEGATIVE; a Consequence.

In the OT, EVERY VIOLATION of the LAW;
WAS CALLED.....A SIN.
The NEGATIVE consequence....called a CURSE.

Moses Had the BOOK of POSITIVE LAWS.
....used to TEACH the People.
Aaron HAD the BOOK of the CURSE LAWS.
....used to PUNISH the People, FOR NOT obeying the POSITIVE LAW.

It was "per'se"... a government ...
Moses the Head of "his clan"...WHAT TO DO.
Aaron the Judge and Sentence giver of "the clan". CONSEQUENCE FOR NOT DOING.

When America was founded the same Principle was applied for the US government.

A POSITIVE Law written FOR the people.
The people "determining" WHICH Laws applies to them.
(Since ALL laws DO NOT APPLY to ALL People.
Men did not bleed, so those Laws regarding female women, not little girl females, not old lady females, not men, not pregnant women; did not apply to them.)

Also for the US is established a PENEL CODE of Laws, that applies to ONE;
1) that a Laws applies to one charged
2) that such Laws was found to be violated
3) that a Judge orders a consequence
4) that the Consequence is written and pronounced
5) that the Sentencing of the Consequence is carried out.

Jesus arrives. Fulfills the Law. (Scriptural Laws, Mans Laws). Fulfills Prophecy.

FORGIVES men, for their inability to KEEP the LAW.

Jesus Fulfills the LAW. Fulfills the LAW.
Get it?
The LAW is FULFILLED. It becomes Fulfilled.
What LAW is left for a man to FULFILL, where Jesus FAILED to DO it FOR A MAN?

Matt 5:17

Now that Jesus HAS Fulfilled the POSITIVE LAW;
WHAT ABOUT the NEGATIVE "curse" LAWS of Consequences?

The Consequences of the NEGATIVE "curse /sin" LAWS have become MOOT.

WHY? Because Jesus REDEEMED men FROM the "curse, negative, sin, consequences".

Gal 3:13

There IS NO LAW for man TO obey.
There IS NO CONSEQUENCE for men TO NOT OBEY FULFILLED LAWS.

WHAT MEN? ALL men? No.
Men WHO have asked for and Accepted Jesus' FORGIVENESS, and TRUST What He has DONE, is a gift unto THEM. <---- THEM.
It APPLIES to individual MEN.

As it is individual men, to Submit to Jesus' WAY, or not.

So....DID Jesus DESTROY the LAW?
No. He fulfilled the Law, and individuals can believe it or not. And individuals can submit to Jesus or not.

So what about the LAW, since it was NOT destroyed?

Well, WHO were the LAWS first Given TO?
Hebrews? Yes. Jews? Yes. Gentiles? No.

And? Do ALL the Jews readily ACCEPT Jesus?
No. His fulfillment of Jewish Laws? No. His forgiveness? No. His freeing them FROM SIN? No. His redemption of them FROM the consequences of the Curse Laws? No.

His TAKING their place TO fulfill the Law? No.
His TAKING their place TO not be subject to the Consequences of Sin? No.
His TAKING their place TO be FREED from Sin? No.

So thus...as you can witness TODAY; Jews CONTINUE "under the Law".
They have to HOPE they are strong enough to KEEP obedience TO THE LAW.
They have to CONTINUALLY ask for FORGIVENESS for violating the LAW.
They have to DO GOOD WORKS, in HOPES to Please God, that HE WILL FIND them WORTHY.........TO BE SAVED, WHEN their physical LIFE ENDS.....THEY must ENDURE TO the end of their LIFE; and HOPE God finds their Obedience to the LAW and Good Works ie THEIR Faithfulness TO GOD, acceptable TO GOD, TO THEN SAVE THEM.

Continued; The Christians...

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Payment is done, it is finished.

What was finished is the method by which God chose to redeem man.
Jesus died on the cross..it was finished. His sacrifice paid the price for all men to be saved.

But one must stay saved. Sorry, I don't believe in OSAS because I don't see it in the N.T. Jesus certainly didn't speak of this. Jesus spoke of good deeds and evil deeds, of sheep who knew His voice, those to His left and those to His right.

 

[Taken]

GodsGrace....

Continued ~

The Christians:

What IS a Christian? A Follower OF Christ's Word, Christ's Teaching? Yes.

Who IS this follower, called a Christian WHO is believing What he is hearing and learning?

WHO? It is an individual WHO is receiving FAITH from the Lord; BECAUSE HE IS BELIEVING what He IS Hearing and Learning.
A Faithful Christian.

AND? WHAT IF, this Christian STOPS following, learning, BELIEVING?
He has FALLEN FROM Faith.
Faith is a gift from God. Stop hearing, learning, BELIEVEING, and one stops RECEIVING FAITH from the Lord.
He jeopardizes his opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation. Called he loses his Salvation...
BECAUSE he didn't follow along believing; TO continued being FILLED with Faith from the Lord.....to come to a point TO SUBMIT TO THE Lord in Faith-fullness.

AND? WHAT IF, a Christian KEEPS following, learning, BELIEVING?
Well.... he is continuously being FILLED with Faith from the Lord.

And....WHERE is all this FAITH from the Lord going?
Straight to the mans "natural spirit, in his natural heart".

And? What about "this gift being given a man"?

It is the mans FREEWILL, to do with it, as he chooses.

It is, as Scripture Says...MANY are Called, Few are Chosen.

When a man IS hearing, learning, believing, receiving Faith from God, to his natural spirit in his natural heart.......He has been Called by the Lord....

IF the man does NOTHING with the gift of faith he has received.....his Calling becomes ineffective.

However IF the man DOES SOMETHING with the faith he has received ..... the Lord Himself has revealed WHAT and HOW "TO DO" with the Faith he has received from the Lord.

It's called a Confession. The Confession is the man himself Confessing TO the Lord; HE DOES; from his heart, believe IN the Lord.

Once a man Confesses TO the Lord...
The Lord does ALL of the Converting of the Man.

THIS is WHAT Christians DO.
And then THEY CLAIM they have RECEIVED the Lords CONVERSION; of
Killing their body of sin.
Cleansing their body of sin.
Sanctifying their body of sin.
Keeping their Sanctified body with Christ.
Justifying their Body to be glorified.
Restoring their soul, saving it to forever Life.
Quickening their natural spirit to a spiritual spirit with Gods Seed, to its forever Life.
Accept the Indwelling Spirit of God, to teach them, be forever with them, Give them Wisdom and Understanding of His Word.

And then what do SUCH Christians DO?

Claim:
They continue to sin; WHILE the Spirit of God IS IN THEM!

They are Under and Subject to POSITIVE Laws, never given them....that Jesus fulfilled.

They are Under and Subject to CURSE/SIN Laws, never given them....that Jesus redeemed men FROM.

Accuse others IN Christ, of commiting Sin.

Continue to try and FIGURE the meaning/understanding of Gods Word, with their MINDS.

Attempt to have debates of the MINDS logical understanding; included with their personal name calling, as if that is justification for their MINDS thoughts to be correct.

IOW - They are claiming TO BE SAFE...they Believe In Christ the Lord Jesus....BUT DO NOT TRUST His CONVERSION IS WHAT HE SAYS IT IS.

The carnal MIND is AGAINST GOD.
Rom 8:7

God does NOT "change" the carnal mind, WHEN He Converts a man.

Changing a CARNAL MIND, is the mans job.

And routinely we find, men CLAIMING they have been CONVERTED; Continuing to USE their natural carnal mind; to SPEAK AGAINST the Lords RESULTS of a mans Conversion.

Sanctification? An on going process?
No it isn't.
The Lords CONVERSION, is NOT an on going process!

A man WHO has Confessed TO the Lord, Belief in his Heart, IN the Lord, and What He has Done.....Becomes Immediately, and Quickly Converted, BY the Power of the Lord.

The man IS forgiven.
His Body IS cleansed, has ALL unrighteousness forgiven, IS sanctifed, IS justifed to belong to the Lord, IS justified to be redeemed and glorified.
His soul IS restored, and has forever life.
His spirit IS quickened, and has forever life.
He has a new heart, a new spirit, and the Spirit of God dwelling IN his new heart, WITH his new spirit....and so HOW ...??

Does a man claiming to BE converted by the Power of the Lord and the Lord and His Power with Him.......Fail to be freed from sin?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace....

Continued ~

The Christians:

What IS a Christian? A Follower OF Christ's Word, Christ's Teaching? Yes.

Who IS this follower, called a Christian WHO is believing What he is hearing and learning?

WHO? It is an individual WHO is receiving FAITH from the Lord; BECAUSE HE IS BELIEVING what He IS Hearing and Learning.
A Faithful Christian.

AND? WHAT IF, this Christian STOPS following, learning, BELIEVING?
He has FALLEN FROM Faith.
Faith is a gift from God. Stop hearing, learning, BELIEVEING, and one stops RECEIVING FAITH from the Lord.
He jeopardizes his opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation. Called he loses his Salvation...
BECAUSE he didn't follow along believing; TO continued being FILLED with Faith from the Lord.....to come to a point TO SUBMIT TO THE Lord in Faith-fullness.

AND? WHAT IF, a Christian KEEPS following, learning, BELIEVING?
Well.... he is continuously being FILLED with Faith from the Lord.

And....WHERE is all this FAITH from the Lord going?
Straight to the mans "natural spirit, in his natural heart".

And? What about "this gift being given a man"?

It is the mans FREEWILL, to do with it, as he chooses.

It is, as Scripture Says...MANY are Called, Few are Chosen.

When a man IS hearing, learning, believing, receiving Faith from God, to his natural spirit in his natural heart.......He has been Called by the Lord....

IF the man does NOTHING with the gift of faith he has received.....his Calling becomes ineffective.

However IF the man DOES SOMETHING with the faith he has received ..... the Lord Himself has revealed WHAT and HOW "TO DO" with the Faith he has received from the Lord.

It's called a Confession. The Confession is the man himself Confessing TO the Lord; HE DOES; from his heart, believe IN the Lord.

Once a man Confesses TO the Lord...
The Lord does ALL of the Converting of the Man.

THIS is WHAT Christians DO.
And then THEY CLAIM they have RECEIVED the Lords CONVERSION; of
Killing their body of sin.
Cleansing their body of sin.
Sanctifying their body of sin.
Keeping their Sanctified body with Christ.
Justifying their Body to be glorified.
Restoring their soul, saving it to forever Life.
Quickening their natural spirit to a spiritual spirit with Gods Seed, to its forever Life.
Accept the Indwelling Spirit of God, to teach them, be forever with them, Give them Wisdom and Understanding of His Word.

And then what do SUCH Christians DO?

Claim:
They continue to sin; WHILE the Spirit of God IS IN THEM!

They are Under and Subject to POSITIVE Laws, never given them....that Jesus fulfilled.

They are Under and Subject to CURSE/SIN Laws, never given them....that Jesus redeemed men FROM.

Accuse others IN Christ, of commiting Sin.

Continue to try and FIGURE the meaning/understanding of Gods Word, with their MINDS.

Attempt to have debates of the MINDS logical understanding; included with their personal name calling, as if that is justification for their MINDS thoughts to be correct.

IOW - They are claiming TO BE SAFE...they Believe In Christ the Lord Jesus....BUT DO NOT TRUST His CONVERSION IS WHAT HE SAYS IT IS.

The carnal MIND is AGAINST GOD.
Rom 8:7

God does NOT "change" the carnal mind, WHEN He Converts a man.

Changing a CARNAL MIND, is the mans job.

And routinely we find, men CLAIMING they have been CONVERTED; Continuing to USE their natural carnal mind; to SPEAK AGAINST the Lords RESULTS of a mans Conversion.

Sanctification? An on going process?
No it isn't.
The Lords CONVERSION, is NOT an on going process!

A man WHO has Confessed TO the Lord, Belief in his Heart, IN the Lord, and What He has Done.....Becomes Immediately, and Quickly Converted, BY the Power of the Lord.

The man IS forgiven.
His Body IS cleansed, has ALL unrighteousness forgiven, IS sanctifed, IS justifed to belong to the Lord, IS justified to be redeemed and glorified.
His soul IS restored, and has forever life.
His spirit IS quickened, and has forever life.
He has a new heart, a new spirit, and the Spirit of God dwelling IN his new heart, WITH his new spirit....and so HOW ...??

Does a man claiming to BE converted by the Power of the Lord and the Lord and His Power with Him.......Fail to be freed from sin?

God Bless,
Taken

Hey Taken,
Have you ever written a book? You sure do have plenty of words in you!!
How to answer you is the problem! It's going to take a whole day.
We agree basically, I think.....
Stay tuned.....

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,
I think I was talking to Hebrews12 and have replied to him.
I'll repeat...

As to sanctification, I explained it in post no. 1781. It seems kind of the same as what you say, except you say it makes one free from sin. I've never heard this before. Do you mean during our lifetime? Do you mean that YOU never sin?
This would go against what the N.T. teaches, as in 1 John 1.
Here is sanctifiction again:
Sanctification is an on-going process which lasts all life-long.
It's a work between us and God and requires our obeying Him.

No. Sanctification is not a process. Sanctification is an act of God.

Hearing and Learning is an ongoing process of a man.

Works are EFFECTED, as a man continues hearing and learning GODS PRECEPTS...

Gods Precepts are things that speak to WHAT Works a man CAN DO, to glorify Gods Name on earth, before other men.

Those Precepts ARE CONTAINED "WITHIN" the Hebrew and Jewsish Laws.

The purpose expressly WHY a Christian studies the Hebrew and Jewish Laws...to FIND what behaviors and works DO PLEASE GOD.

It does not MAKE a Christian SUBJECT TO THOSE LAWS.

Nor is a Christian SUBJECT TO Hebrew and Jewish CURSE Laws FOR NOT DOING Gods Precepts....ie WORKS.

Nor CAN a man DO those Precepts, and WORKS, "acceptable to the Lord", WITHOUT the Lords Spirit with the man.

Now ...CLEARLY...A Christian WHO IS...saved and born again...AND has Learned Gods Precepts, THAT ARE WORKS acceptable TO HIM.....AND "DO THEM", to glorify HIS NAME...

ARE rewarded!
They are NOT forced to do those works.
They are NOT called a SINNER for NOT doing those works. (Like a Jew)
They are NOT SUBJECT to the consequences of a CURSE penalty Law for NOT doing those works. (Like a Jew).

A Christian man, saved and born again, is freed from sin, and freed from the consequences of sin.

Their WORKS are simply Rewarded...or not, if they do no Works.

It has ZERO affect on their already accomplished being Forgiven, accomplished Salvation and accomplished spirit Being Born of Gods Seed. <--- those things ARE finished;
Accomplished; Not an ongoing process.
SIN is no longer part of the equation....
It's forgiven, the man converted, The Lord within the man Once and forever.

We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but to say that Jesus does it all through us is removing our responsibility toward sin.

Jesus IS THEE ONLY forgiver of SIN of a man.
If HIS FORGIVENESS IS your responsibility;
THEN HE is unnecessary.

If we say that Jesus does it all, then He fails when we sin.

You are creating the "IF"..."THEN"..scenario

When it is the Lords Word that reveals the "IF" ... "THEN" ... scenario.

Bottom line; "IF" a man DOES ALL the Scripture reveals FOR a man to Receive Salvation and Receive the SEED of God...

SIN is NO LONGER a consideration.
The man can commit sin no more.
The man can not sin any more.
The man is NOT subject to the consequences of sin.
The man IS KEPT in this NEW CONDITION; BY the POWER of God AND BECAUSE the Lord TOOK all of that mans SIN, ON HIS BODY...
And GAVE His BODY, and SIN, OVER TO DEATH!!!!!

Why do you want to resurrect the SIN, the Lord has KILLED, and Keep it for yourself?

Man ATTEMPTING to KEEP Himself FROM SIN; FAILED!!!!!

As to the Law. The Laws in the O.T. were to create a civil society for the Hebrews, Israelites and Jews. There were civil laws, ceremonial laws, and moral laws. Jesus did away with the ceremonial laws,

And WHEN precisely were YOU a Gentile subject to ANY of those Laws?

This would be the 10 commandments,

Ah yes. The 10 Commandments...given TO..
Hebrews in the OT.
Jews in the NT, less the Sabbath day commandment.

AND? Are you a Hebrew? Are you a Jew?

When did Scripture MAKE Gentiles Subject to those Laws?

It didn't!

the two Great Commandments Jesus left us with.

A Christian SUBJECTS Himself, BY HIS CHOICE, "TO CHRIST"....NOT Hebrew Laws, NOT Jewish Laws.......BUT TO CHIRST!

A man Calls ON Christ the Lord Jesus.
A man becomes IN Christ.
A man becomes Converted BY Christ.
A man IN Christ is a new creature...
ALL of the OLD is passed away.

Why would you keep digging up the OLD?

Why would OLD Laws, that were NEVER given you, BE relevant to a NEW man "IN CHRIST"?

A man WHO is IN Christ, is not subject to the OLD. (Applies to Jews, who accept Jesus).

A man WHO is IN Christ, WHO was NOT subject to the OLD laws, still isn't.
He is a man IN Christ, ONLY subject to Christs commandments.... LOVE the Lord and LOVE other men.....and EVEN that, is accomplished by the POWER of the Lord within a man!

§The fact the His two commandments will naturally cause one to follow the 10 means that the 10 are still in force.

All the LAWS are "still in force". Jesus did not destroy the Law. SO YES, Every Hebrew and Every Jew that rejects Jesus is Lord and the Christ....absolutely THEY are still UNDER THE LAW.

What does THAT have to do with a Gentile?
The Laws didn't apply to Gentiles.
Why do you presume they do?

Just because we're washed by the blood and can be forgiven does not mean we are allowed to lie, murder, steal, etc.

WHAT prevents you from doing such things?

Ink on paper that said to the Hebrews and Jews, don't do that?

A man WHO has subjected himself TO CHRIST, HAS that itty bitty thing within him;
Called the Spirit of the Lord.
The Spirit of the Lord.....IS POWER!
His Power is constantly FEEDING the mans new born spirit with DESIRES to Please God.

AND? Should such a man NOT listen to his new spirit....and INSTEAD listen to his MIND, that can drum up lies, deceit, corruption...
AND such man DOES such things...

THEN WHAT? Has the man SINNED? No.
Has the man been stupid and listened to his MIND instead of his new spirit in his new heart? Yes.

And? Should the man recognize his own mistake and feel stupid and feel embarrassed and feel sorry....Yes.

And? Then do what? Go run and tell the Lord he sinned? Whoops, Sin is not part of the equation.

What is the man SUPPOSED to do?
It depends on what the man DID.
WHO did he LIE TO?
He is supposed to go CONFESS his Lie to the one he LIED TO, and ask THEIR forgiveness.

IOW - A man causing grief, trespassing, harm, whatever TOWARD another man, IS his responsibility to Correct, with apologies, with paying for the expenses of the harm he caused, and that might include CIVIL penalties of money, judgements, jail time...

The SIN of a man (IN CHRIST) TOWARD God is already resolved...BY the Lord.
The TRESPASSES of a man (IN CHRIST) TOWARD other men...IS FOR the MAN to resolve.

I agree that the Old Covenant did not work and we do much better under the New Covenant, being helped by the Holy Spirit

It is the Holy Spirit that HELPS a man COME to the Lord and BECOME Converted BY the Holy Spirit, AND KEPT Converted.

It is the Holy Spirit that WILL guide a man...
IF the man is willing to LISTEN to his new spirit, being fed by the Lord, OVER his carnal mind.

It is the Holy Spirit that WILL Comfort a man, who stupidedly listens to his mind over his spirit and does dumb things, that HE will negatively be affected by.

We all sin or we make God to be a liar.
1 John 1:10

That Scripture is absolutely TRUE!!
And I have already acknowledged numerous times...
Men are naturally born IN SIN.
Men COMMIT SIN.
So, IS THAT MAKING God A liar? No.

Now WHEN a man who is naturally born in sin; GIVES his BODY of SIN for Christ to CRUCIFIY His BODY....
Where IS THAT MANS Natural born SIN that HE Admittedly HAD?

IT'S DEAD!!
Are you hanging on to DEAD SIN?
Keeping it with you?
Claiming if you don't KEEP IT WITH YOU, you making God a Liar?
How is God KILLING your body of SIN, make you a LIAR for not KEEPING your body of SIN?

After God KILLS your body of sin; He washes it in Christ's BLOOD. He sanctifies it with His Power. He keeps your FREED BODY of SIN, cleansed, and sanctified, WITH CHIRST, until the day He shall glorify that body.

So, AFTER God kills your body of SIN, and restores your Soul, quickens your Spirit, dwells within you with HIS SPIRIT....

And NOTIFIES you, you are NOW BORN from HIS incorruptable Seed, Sealed with HIS Power to forever be WITH Him....

Really? This is a man WHO does not have the Truth in Him. WHO is calling God a Liar? WHO is even capable of calling God a Liar? WHO is supposed to be HANGING on to his DEAD BODY of Sin, the the Lord crucified, cleansed, sanctified?

No. You are simply picking a Scripture that DOES NOT APPLY to a man submitted TO CHRIST, and pretending it has applicability, when it doesn't.

So moving on TO a VERSE that DOES have applicability TO A MAN WHO HAS SUBJECTED HIMSELF TO Christ, and Received their Conversion FROM the Lord.

1 John 3:9
WHOSOEVER....
(Jews who do not believe in Christ?
No.
Any Gentile who does not believe in Christ? No.
Any man who believes, BUT HAS NOT submitted to BE Converted by Christ?
No.

They ARE NOT "whosoever"!

WHO IS "whosoever"?
The man WHO believes in his heart and HAS submitted to the Lord, and received His Conversion FROM the Lord.

And WHAT ABOUT THIS SUCH MAN?
He IS FREED FROM SIN.
He has RECEIVED Gods incorruptable SEED,
ONCE, and Forever.
He CAN COMMIT SIN, "NO MORE".
He CAN NOT SIN. "ANY MORE" Period.

So, IS A MAN a LIAR, who does not believe this word of God? Yes.

So, IS A MAN making GOD A LIAR, who Does not believe Gods Word is True? Yes.

So, are you claiming you are born of Gods Seed, and still commit sin?

Wouldn't that be you making Gods Word a lie?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hey Taken,
Have you ever written a book? You sure do have plenty of words in you!!
How to answer you is the problem! It's going to take a whole day.
We agree basically, I think.....
Stay tuned.....

I think most saved and born again Christians agree on what they have received...From the Lord...a saved soul, a quickened born again spirit.

But what is sorely lacking in most Christians IMO, from observations, is Understanding, the fullness of the gifts.

Men can say...I'm saved, I'm born again, I'm not under the laws.....and yet daily claim they violate "the law", thus are sinning.

God wants us to understand the magnitude of His GIFTS. They are not flippant, as here ya go, see ya on resurrection day. His Gifts are filled with HIS Power, to KEEP the man, and allow the man to choose to follow his precepts or make stupid mistakes and He shall be there to pat you on the head, give you a hug, while you are dealing with your stupid mistakes and conseqeunces....and then there with you...to say....How did you do listening to your mind instead of your heart? Eh not so well...did you like the results, the consequences, the embarressment, the sadness, the stress? No? Well what are you going to do next time...the same thing?

THAT is what is ongoing with a man, IN CHRIST. Learning HOW TO listen to his new spirit in his new heart, OVER His mind, that is the same carnal mind.
He does stupid things, he does things he thinks might be a good choice and finds out it wasnt' and has to deal with the consequences, with a hug (comfort) from God. He also continues, IF he chooses, to learn Gods precepts of what pleases God and do them....and shall be rewarded, IF his works glorify God.

Many men testify they ARE committed to and converted by Christ...and still testify they are subject to the Laws, never given them. And testify the Lords Spirit in them is nice, but they still sin. False.

And write a book? I have many of my own journals from my own fellowshiping with the Lord. I have a manuscript I wrote on a history of the School District I attended K-12, it's beginning and progressing history and update it as per the districts changes. Published no. On my to do list, for a gift to the School District and local libraries, one day.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

so He could make payment for us at the end of our life.

ah, "death, more abundantly" ya

 

[bbyrd009]

Payment is done, it is finished.

you should let grownups interpret that for you, wadr, not wolves.

"Pick up your cross" comes first, even if you have ripped that page out of your Bible

 

[GodsGrace]

ah, "death, more abundantly" ya

When do we cash in ?
Now, or at the end of life?
We live more abundantly now, but heaven is at the end.

 

[bbyrd009]

Obeying a LAW,
By a mans effort is a FAIL.

Just bc we might fail at times in keeping a law does not mean that we should not do our best to obey it lol, pls

 

[bbyrd009]

When do we cash in ?

when we stop seeking cash, i guess

you gotta wonder how ppl who supposedly clearly grasp "die daily" could possibly ever be deceived by "your ego can go to heaven after you die."

or, put another way, you might examine where this desire to "cash in" even comes from. Jannes and Jambres are good for this i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Now, or at the end of life?
We live more abundantly now, but heaven is at the end.

this is imo pretty clearly a Mithraist perspective of heaven as a place, "Valhalla" or wherever, that can only be attained after death. The (Roman) cult of Sol Invictus came from this also, and the Roman Emperors joined it with "Christianity." But if the kingdom of heaven is within you or beside you, see, these are both available right now, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

We live more abundantly now

so we say anyway, out of one side of our mouths, or at least at others' expense, yes
seems to be how it generally works anyway

"having fun with no money" is a great test for this imo

 

[Taken]

Just bc we might fail at times in keeping a law does not mean that we should not do our best to obey it lol, pls

You can keep Chinese Laws too if you want. Lol

If you ARE KEEPING a law, YOU ARE UNDER the LAW. AND that includes the Penal (Curse) laws.

Inanutshell, I was never Under the Law.
And certainily do not become subject TO the Law, for having confessed belief IN Christ To Christ, or for having received His Gifts of conversion.

Now, as I have said....absolutely you can read in Scripture WHAT Pleases the Lord, and DO those things that glorify God.

Some of those PLEASING precepts are FOUND within the Jewish and Hebrew Laws....

Which is the same concept if you read Chinese Laws, and said hey, I think this is a good PRECEPT to follow and do.

You can FOLLOW and DO any Precept WITHOUT making yourself subject TO the LAW AND ITS (penal/ curses/punishments) FOR NOT doing such precepts.

If you ARE subject TO the law...that means YOU ARE REQUIRED to do what the law says.
And if you don't, there IS a (curse, penalty, punishment consequence)

If you ARE following it's PRECEPTS, that is by your choice, NOT a requirement, and there IS NOT a punishing consequence if you do not.

The Scripture is FULL of Laws that do not apply to man IN Christ.

The Scripture is FULL of Laws, Hebrews and Jews were Requried to obey.

Within many of the Hebrew and Jewish Laws are Precepts .... works, acts, a man CAN DO, to please God, AND glorify His name.

^ THAT is precisely what a man IN Christ can learn, can do, can receive rewards for glorifying God on earth before other men.

The LAW itself, and the Consequence for NOT doing what the laws says.......IS MOOT, for a man IN Christ.

Men IN Christ have subjected themselves TO CHRIST.......NOT THE LAW, as did the Hebrews and do the Jews.

Men IN Christ are subjected to Christ, and CAN learn the precepts that Glorify Gods name, and thus shall be rewarded according to the Works they HAVE accomplished to Glorify Gods Name.

Point being...a man IN CHRIST is not subject to or required to follow the law or it's precepts.

Point being...a man in CHRIST WHO does follow the Precepts to glorify Gods Name shall be greatly rewarded.

I would say, to a man in Christ, yes follow Gods precepts, Glorify Gods Name....
But don't falsely tell me you are OBEYING a Law you are NOT subject to.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Not under the law anymore. It is embedded in my heart. And all that Christ desires I will know in my heart.

How great is God!...more that we know

APAK

 

[GodsGrace]

when we stop seeking cash, i guess

you gotta wonder how ppl who supposedly clearly grasp "die daily" could possibly ever be deceived by "your ego can go to heaven after you die."

or, put another way, you might examine where this desire to "cash in" even comes from. Jannes and Jambres are good for this i guess

Our ego won't be going to heaven. We're not even supposed to have one here, but maybe we all do --- maybe just a little bit?

Have you been following along?
Someone brought up being sealed in the Holy Spirit.
Sealing is like an "earnest" or a down payment for something that has to be paid in full --- at the end of life. The payment is that we obey Jesus. If we make all payments, at the end we get our "home".
(I like that analogy)