Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Sin under the OT Laws WAS, man AGAINST Gods Law, WAS, man AGAINST God, ie A SIN.
Sin under the OT Laws WAS, ALL SIN WAS AGAINST God, ie ANY violation of the LAW, ie a SIN.
Sin under the OT Laws HAD, Consequences FOR the SINS, AGAINST God.
Sin under the OT Laws WAS, Man Against Man, ie A SIN.
Sin under the OT Laws WAS, Man Against Man, HAD, Consequences For the Sins of man against man.
Under the NEW Covenant ~ ANY man WHO,
WAS AGAINST GOD, in Disbelief, WHO submitted to the Lord IN BELIEF, Has BEEN FORGIVEN ALL of His SINS Against God.
Such man IS CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
Such man IS REDEEMED FROM ALL CURSE SINS "OF THE LAW".
Such man HAS the power to FORGIVE other men OF the "other mans" Trespasses Against him. <--- THAT is between ONE man and another man.
Men do not have the Power to Forgive Sins Against God. <--- THAT is between ONE man and God.

That's NOT what Jesus told the leaders of His Church.

In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:

The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

The Father sent the Son to FORGIVE SIN.
As the Father sent Him - He sent the Apostles to do the SAME thing in His name.

Paul makes no small case for this ministry of reconciliation clearly in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states:
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

In the Greek, the word “presence” in this phrase is Prosopone, which means Person. In the PERSON of Christ is a more correct translation. Paul was indicating that they were forgiving sins in the PERSON of Christ, which is translated into Latin as In Persona Christi.

John 20:22-23).
THE "CHURCH" is not a building, or appointed clergy. The Church is within the individual WHO has the power to or not to Forgive INDIVIDUALS who trespass against the One.
You have given for "supposed" Saved men...declaring "they" are the ones in Violation of the "Law", by not attending Church.
What is their consequence?
You have given for "committing murder" by "supposed" Saved men....a delcaration they have SINNED.....Against WHO?
Apparently God....since you further declared their consequence WOULD BE BY GOD, for them to be CUT OFF FROM GOD.
You give a Declaration and Consequence FOR a Saved man; that Scripture does not.

All saved AND born again men CAN NOT SIN.
Their SIN was NOT believing IN the Lord.
Once they DO, they can NEVER AGAIN, NOT believe in the Lord.
Their SIN affected their SOUL.
The Lord restored their SOUL, that it CAN NOT EVER not believe in the Lord.
1 John 3:9
There IS NO SIN consequence Lodged AGAINST SUCH MAN. THE Lord REDEEMED the man FROM the Consequences of SIN Against God.
Gal 3:13
Men are to forgive men their trespasses against such man.
Luke 17:3
You follow under the OT LAW.
I follow under the Word of God. My Sin against Him is forgiven, period.
There is NO consequence for past Sins of Disbelief and Past commission of Sins Against God.
There is NO future sins Against God, I am capable to commit. Not by my Power, but by Gods Power, to Keep me unto Him only.
I certainly CAN Trespass against men, and men Trespass against me. It is not SIN, and either man can settle the remedy with forgiveness and reparations between themselves. And IF there ARE consequences beyond what can be resolved between the two; that is NOT a SIN consequence; but usually a CIVIL consequence.
Murder is a trespass of one man against another man.
Your teaching and your Church still operate under OT LAWS, sins, consequences, hope you can endure in obedience to the Laws until your ending, so you hope to be saved.
I was never under the OT Laws, nor am now.
I am under the NEW Covenant, and Have already received my Forgiveness, Salvation,
Cleansing, Sanctification, Uncorruptable Seed from God, a quickened spirit, His Indwelling Spirit, direct communication with MY Lord, My God.
While you wait and wonder and continue to SIN....I have elected to be IN Chirst and be Assured to Trust He is Faithful and what He gave me is accomplished.

WRONG.

James emphatically tells his congregation of Born Again believers to CONFESS their SINS (James 5:16).
We know that they are born again members of the Church because he tells them to call their PRESBYTERS to pray over the sick (James 5:14).

What is forgiven when we come to the Lord are all of our PAST sins.
NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture does it say that your FUTURE sins are forgiven without repenting of them.

Your claim that you do NOT sin is anti-Biblical and exposes your counterfeit beliefs.
Good luck with that arrogant, ungodly view . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Direct violations of the 10 Commandments which are contrary to the Church’s moral teachings or contrary to Scripture might include: murder, envy, abortion, artificial contraception, adultery, fornication, stealing, hatred, heresy, drunkenness, drug abuse, gossip, intentionally missing mass, and many others.

We are no longer under the law but under grace. why do religious people put back under the law that nobody can follow? I prefer sanctification over law.

 

[mjrhealth]

Apparently, you didn't read the posts prior to this one, as usual . . .

I did, but as I said has absolutely nothing to do with infant baptism, just you trying to justify a lie and you religions doctrines, these ones

Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and these ones

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

God bless and enjoy teh weekend I am.

 

[tabletalk]

Once saved is forever as long as you keep yourself saved.
I'd like to know where you read that you're saved forever.
Where did Jesus say this?
Even Paul gave conditions to being saved.

And if you have any doubt as to what Paul said or meant, which many theologians and bible scholars do, BTW, maybe you could refer back to Jesus words since He's the one who hung on that cross.

You said: "Once saved is forever as long as you keep yourself saved."

Doesn't it seem as if these two statements below, about being sealed by the Spirit, teach that God keeps us saved?
If they do teach that, then it is forever.

From Ephesians 1:13.... having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14. who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

From Ephesians 4: 30. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[Taken]

That's NOT what Jesus told the leaders of His Church.

Jesus was PREPARING MEN "TO" BE "HIS CHURCH".

A BORN AGAIN MAN, IS Jesus' Church.

In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:

Yes Jesus Breathed "ON" them, giving His Diciples POWER, to Testify OF Jesus, IN TRUTH......Jesus' Truth!

(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.

Yes, ALL POWER stems FROM GOD.
Imagine that: Even Satan HAS POWER!

But Satan DOES NOT HAVE Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT, and NEITHER DID the diciples "at that time"!

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained

."

NOT NEWS;
Scripture TEACHES TO MEN, in a fashion of what IS FAMILIAR TO MEN.

What was familiar to JEWS, was EVERY ACT;
Man Against God...was "called" a SIN.
Man Against man..was "called" a SIN.

You forgot to learn the LESSON, ONLY GOD FORGIVES SIN.

Mark 2:7
Who can forgive sins, but God only?

You forgot to learn the LESSON, MEN can forgive MEN of trespasses Against them.

Matt 18:15

IF thy brother shall TRESPASS Against thee, god and "TELL HIM" his fault "between thee and him alone"

Your religions teaches....to go to a Priest, confess TO HIM, you have commited a SIN Against ANOTHER MAN. Then you ASK the Priest to FORGIVE YOU.

THAT IS NOT BIBLICAL for a Gentile, WHO WAS NOT EVER UNDER THE LAW.

Gentiles ASK GOD for forgiveness of SIN Against God, for having BEEN naturally BORN AGAINST HIM.

Gentiles ASK other men, man to man, to forgive one mans Trespass against the other man.

IF YOU THINK MEN are forgiving MEN of SINS..
You are either operating UNDER the Jewish LAW or
You are MAKING "the Forgiver" God.

I was NOT subject TO THE LAW, nor MADE to be UNDER the LAW, nor pretend or operated AS IF I am UNDER THE LAW! <--- AS YOU DO.

I AM UNDER Grace.
Sin has NO dominion OVER me.

Rom 6:12
Sin shall not have DOMINION over you:
For ye are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE.

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:

The WHY Jesus BREATHED "ON" His disciples is clearly REVEALED. They were being SENT out to begin TESTIFYING of Jesus' ACCORDING TO Jesus' Word ABOUT Jesus Himself. They were given the POWER to testify OF Jesus, ACCORDING TO JESUS!

The first is when he breathed life into Adam.

Not a secret. Gods BREATH HAS POWER.
Not a secret. Adam was created, NOT BORN.
Not a secret. Every earthly man is GIVEN POWER FROM GOD, to bring the earth BODY of DUST, into a living state.
Not a secret. WHEN that POWER of God, departs OUT of an earthly BODY, the BODY becomes Naturally and Physically DEAD!

The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Under Jewish LAW, as Jews knew, as Jews understood, as Jews were teaching Jews...
Acts against men, were "CALLED" SINS.

Not a newsflash, Gentiles were NOT UNDER Jewish Laws.
Not a newsflash, God forgives Gentiles of SIN against God, according to HIS GRACE, NOT according to Jewish LAW.
Not a newsflash, Gentile men forgive men of trespassing against them.

The Father sent the Son to FORGIVE SIN.

Uh huh...And a Gentile WHO receives Forgiveness from the SON, Christ the Lord Jesus.....thereafter Recives the the Seed of God, is re-birthed, and IS KEPT FROM the dominion of Sin, BY THE "INDWELLING" Power of the Holy Spirit.

As the Father sent Him - He sent the Apostles to do the SAME thing in His name.

And? Were the Jewish "disciples", who became the Jewish "Apostles" SENT BY Jesus to Gentiles? Uh NO!
They were SENT TO JEWS, to teach Jews, according to WHAT Jews understood, and TO WHAT had become SOMETHING NEW FOR THEM TO KNOW....and Understand...
The OLD COVENANT; of REPEATED Animal Blood for forgiveness of sin, and atonement BY the earthly Priest.....WAS being REPLACED
BY the ONE TIME given of BLOOD of Jesus for forgiveness of sin, and the atonement was BY Christ Jesus Himself, THEE High Priest of God.

I already ACCEPTED Christ's ONE TIME FORGIVENESS, and HIS atonement, and HIS Restoration of my soul, and HIS Seed quickening my spirit, and His INDWELLING Spirit, and His covering of my sin of darkness with His Light, and His INDWELLING POWER, KEEPING me freed from sin, KEEPING sin from having DOMINION over me.

YOU haven't. That you. You do not operate under Grace. You operate under the Law. You repeatedly ask an earthly man to forgive you of SINS, you commit against other people.

Paul makes no small case for this ministry of reconciliation clearly in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:

Why would Paul make a "small case" for reconciliation? Duh!

Paul was INDWELT with the Holy Spirit, and thus was prepared to Speak AS A MINISTER, the Word of God, teaching other men About Christ and HOW they could become reconciled unto God through Christ the Lord Jesus.

“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and

given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

Not a newsflash. Men WHO are INDWELT with the HOLY SPIRIT are prepared to Speak the Word of God, according to God, to other men, that other men may also elect to be reconciled unto God.

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states:
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

In the Greek, the word “presence” in this phrase is Prosopone, which means Person. In the PERSON of Christ is a more correct translation. Paul was indicating that they were forgiving sins in the PERSON of Christ, which is translated into Latin as In Persona Christi.

You confuse NOTIFYING a man IS FORGIVEN His sins THROUGH Christ; with making MEN the forgiver of sin.

Only God forgives SIN.
Ministering to men ABOUT God, according to God, IS after God has given the man Power to do so.
An earthly man Teaching a man, telling a man his sins are forgiven; is notifying the man .... NOT FORGIVING the man of his SIN.

You do not understand the difference between a man UNDER the LAW, and a man UNDER Grace.

A few, Jews were teach a few Jews, HOW to now longer be UNDER the Law; and to LEARN HOW TO come UNDER Christ the Lord Jesus' GRACE, to be ONCE and FOREVER FORGIVEN their SIN Against God; And the INTERNAL Dwelling of the LORDS Spirit IN THEM, to Saved their souls, quicken their spirits, change their hearts, deal with other men who trespass against them, practice the Lords precepts, lean on the strength of the INDWELLING Holy Spirit, receive wisdom and understanding FROM the indwelling Lords Spirit....

Well dude....a FEW Jews accepted Jesus and His Grace.....BUT MANY Jews DIDN"T...and KEPT themselves UNDER the Law, and still do to this DAY....and thus they must REPEAT over and over asking for FORGIVENSS, hoping in their own ending, they will have BEEN obedient to the Law, DONE enough GOOD WORKS, "TO BE SAVED"!!

THAT is what YOU DO and PREACH!
YOU reject Jesus' GRACE of Forgiveness.
YOU reject Jesus' GRACE of Change.
YOU reject Jesus' Indwelling POWER to KEEP a man FROM SIN.
YOU teach the same, as WHAT YOU DO.

I Don't DO WHAT YOU DO.
I have accepted Jesus' GRACE, and ALL the blessing that go along with HAVING Accepted His Grace, and His gifts He has given me.

 

[Taken]

WRONG.

James emphatically tells his congregation of Born Again believers to CONFESS their SINS (James 5:16).

You don't comprehend Scripture.
James was speaking to a "group".
James was a Jewish disciple of Jesus the Jew.
Every man James was speaking to;
WAS James "Jewish" brother.

But not every man in the "group" was James
"IN CHRIST SPIRIT "brethren"".

James was speaking to BOTH.

You reveal your understanding to be....James was deciding WHO was already IN CHRIST and WHO was not.

YOU ERROR.

James was MINISTERING, teaching, preaching. About men who were still learning,
And About what is expected of men WHO decide to BE IN Christ.

It is the INDIVIDUAL, who KNOWS what words preached to them APPLIES or doesnt' APPLY.

We know that they are born again members of the Church because he tells them to call their PRESBYTERS to pray over the sick (James 5:14).

Oh good grief man....SOME WERE, SOME WERE NOT! They know themselves, IF they have submitted to be IN Christ or Not.

James is teaching in James 4.....TO Submit themselves to God.

He is Teaching. Everyone did not jump up and shout....oooh rah, we submit!

Good grief, have you never sat in a Sancturary with ONE man speaking, and a whole crowd listening?

Are you completly UNAWARE, some HAVE already accepted and submitted TO the Lord, and received His Forgiveness, and His gifts of Salvation and Quickening and Freedom from Sin?..........And others have not?.......And others are just beginning to hear the Word of God for the first time?

What is forgiven when we come to the Lord are all of our PAST sins.

Awesome, You have actually made a TRUTHFUL Statement....

NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture does it say that your FUTURE sins are forgiven

Well NO KIDDING! There are NO FUTURE SINS, to require FORGIVENESS!!

Men WHO HAVE received FORGIVENESS from the Lord....have ALSO received HIS GIFTS...
A body dead to sin.
A restored and saved soul.
A new heart.
The Seed of God
A quickened spirit.
The "INDWELLING" Spirit of God.
The FREEDOM "from" SIN.

Your claim that you do NOT sin is anti-Biblical

LOL, your denseness prevails.

You are STILL dominated BY SIN.
I am FREED from Sin.

You are claiming your parents and a priest caused the Birth of your spirit, and you have no memory of MAKING such a choice, or YOU calling on the Lord.
And you are still waiting to BE saved.

I MADE MY election, I CALLED on the Lord,
I received His HIS GRACE, His GIFTS.
I am claiming I. Received "HIS" Forgiveness.
I am claiming my SOUL is already restored and Saved, BY Christ the Lord Himself.
I am claiming my SPIRIT is already quickened and Kept, By Christ the Lord Himself.
I am claiming My Lords Spirit dwells IN ME, and Keeps me faithful unto Him ONLY.
I am claiming His Power KEEPS me FREE FROM SIN, that I can SIN NO MORE....
JUST AS HE TEACHES, and YOU REJECT...
And YOU FURTHER call it UNBIBLICAL, when it is PLAINLY WRITTEN "IN Scripture".

1 John 3;9.

You CALLING Scripture plainly stated UnBiblical, IS YOUR own FALSE TEACHING of Gods Word.

A man WITH the Spirit of God, Would Have the Power of God within Him, and NEVER speak AGAINST the Word of God; as YOU DO.

We know men by their FRUITS....and their LYING accusations.

Your fruits reveal, You are a Gentile who has adopted being UNDER THE LAW, and Subject to the Consequences of the Law....that's you.

Your fruits reveal, You make FALSE claims about the WORD of God.

You reveal YOUR WAY, is the Catholic WAY.

My WAY, is the Lords WAY.

You reveal you come to Christian forums to lambast ANYONE who does not agree with Catholic teaching.

News pal, NO ONE has to consider Catholic teaching, TO accept the Lord; His Way, His Gifts!

and exposes your counterfeit beliefs.
Good luck with that arrogant, ungodly view . . .

They are NOT counterfeit beliefs, or arroagant, or ungodly...as YOU falsely claim.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is BORN OF GOD....
A) doth NOT COMMIT SIN
B) CANNOT SIN
C) BECAUSE He "IS" Born of God.

Since you repeatedly CLAIM FOR YOURSELF;
THAT you CAN SIN;
THAT YOU DO SIN;

THEN YOU are NOT whosever: BORN OF GOD.

THAT's YOU pal. Not me!

So carry on your merry way....
Keep committing SIN, Keep asking a MAN to Forgive You YOUR sins, Keep teaching AGAINST the Word of God, Keep hoping you will be SAVED, Keep teaching an Individual does NOT have to Confess to the Lord, and all the other nonsense and accusations you babble out of your mouth.

IT means NOTHING to me.
You ARE without Understanding.
You ARE in a position to TEACH Catholic Ways.
You ARE NOT in a position to TEACH the Lords Way.

I don't care about Catholic Ways!
I have ALREADY Learned and Accepted the Lord's Way.

 

[Heb 13:8]

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Non-osas love taking this one out of context, so i did some study.

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas). God bless.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

 

[mjrhealth]

Non-osas love taking this one out of context, so i did some study.

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas). God bless.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

And we can add

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is wht we have faith in Him not of ourselves.

 

[Helen]

And we can add

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is wht we have faith in Him not of ourselves.

Amen to that David!! Yay!!

 

[Heb 13:8]

And we can add

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is wht we have faith in Him not of ourselves.

yupthe gospel is simple, believe. the attack on believelism is prominent its how you know its the truth. it will offend

 

[Dcopymope]

Just wondering, to those who deny we are saved once and for all, at what point in your life did you start sinning? At what age did you become a sinner? Its always asked of the opposite, of when you stopped, but never when you started to sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed, for the most part - except for your comment in RED.
It's not difficult to commit a mortal sin.

Mortal sin requires grave sin, knowledge of the gravity and full consent consent.
People commit mortal sins all the time.

People commit mortal sins all the time.
We know that mortal sin is of grave matter, we must understand that it's grave, and we must, knowing this, still do it.
Could you please list some mortal sins?
A link would be fine.

 

[GodsGrace]

You said: "Once saved is forever as long as you keep yourself saved."

Doesn't it seem as if these two statements below, about being sealed by the Spirit, teach that God keeps us saved?
If they do teach that, then it is forever.

From Ephesians 1:13.... having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14. who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

From Ephesians 4: 30. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God keeps us saved for as long as we want to be saved.
I'm a believer of free will.
I don't believe God keeps us saved if we wish to walk away from Him. If He did it just means that we're a bunch of robots which He controls. I don't believe God wants people to love Him out of force, the bible teaches me that He wants us to love Him freely.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit is true. We are sealed as an earnest. As a down payment, as assurance of an intent to pay. But we must make the payment to receive what was promised in the end. Much like making a down payment for a car, if we don't make the payments every month, in the end the car will not be ours.

The Holy Spirit dwells in us.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is within us. We have been bought with a price, therefore we are to glorify God. And what if I want to stop glorifying God? Am I not allowed to do so by my free will?

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having these promises, we are to cleanse ourselves from all defilement, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Yes. Our salvation is up to us to continue in the word of God.

The sealing is a down payment guaranteeing us what is to come which is far better, our entry into heaven, IF we continue in our salvation, or sanctification.

The bible plainly shows this in many verses.

2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

1 John 2:24
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We are no longer under the law but under grace. why do religious people put back under the law that nobody can follow? I prefer sanctification over law.

We STILL adhere to the Commandments.
If you think that Christians are NOT bound by the Commandments - then you have invented a different god for yourself.

 

[BreadOfLife]

People commit mortal sins all the time.
We know that mortal sin is of grave matter, we must understand that it's grave, and we must, knowing this, still do it.
Could you please list some mortal sins?
A link would be fine.

Some mortal sins may include murder, abortion, rape, fornication, adultery, masturbation, calumny, perjury, etc.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did, but as I said has absolutely nothing to do with infant baptism, just you trying to justify a lie and you religions doctrines, these ones
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
and these ones
1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
God bless and enjoy teh weekend I am.

No - you didn't read the previous posts or you wouldn't have asked such a ridiculous question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus was PREPARING MEN "TO" BE "HIS CHURCH".
A BORN AGAIN MAN, IS Jesus' Church.

Wrong.

A born again man is a MEMBER of Christ's Church. No single person comprises the whole Church because Jesus is the HEAD of that Church. Jesus equated His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

You need to read 1 Cor. 12 very closely before you make such a ridiculous claim . . .

JYes Jesus Breathed "ON" them, giving His Diciples POWER, to Testify OF Jesus, IN TRUTH......Jesus' Truth!

WRONG again, sparky.
READ the following very closely:
John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU retain are retained."

Jesus gave the Apostles the power to FORGIVE sins in His name - not just to "testify of Jesus."

Yes, ALL POWER stems FROM GOD.

Imagine that: Even Satan HAS POWER!
But Satan DOES NOT HAVE Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT, and NEITHER DID the diciples "at that time"!

WRONG again.
". . . he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

NOT NEWS;

Scripture TEACHES TO MEN, in a fashion of what IS FAMILIAR TO MEN.
What was familiar to JEWS, was EVERY ACT;
Man Against God...was "called" a SIN.
Man Against man..was "called" a SIN.
You forgot to learn the LESSON, ONLY GOD FORGIVES SIN.
Mark 2:7
Who can forgive sins, but God only?
You forgot to learn the LESSON, MEN can forgive MEN of trespasses Against them.
Matt 18:15
IF thy brother shall TRESPASS Against thee, god and "TELL HIM" his fault "between thee and him alone"
Your religions teaches....to go to a Priest, confess TO HIM, you have commited a SIN Against ANOTHER MAN. Then you ASK the Priest to FORGIVE YOU.
THAT IS NOT BIBLICAL for a Gentile, WHO WAS NOT EVER UNDER THE LAW.
Gentiles ASK GOD for forgiveness of SIN Against God, for having BEEN naturally BORN AGAINST HIM.
Gentiles ASK other men, man to man, to forgive one mans Trespass against the other man.
IF YOU THINK MEN are forgiving MEN of SINS..
You are either operating UNDER the Jewish LAW or
You are MAKING "the Forgiver" God.
I was NOT subject TO THE LAW, nor MADE to be UNDER the LAW, nor pretend or operated AS IF I am UNDER THE LAW! <--- AS YOU DO.
I AM UNDER Grace.
Sin has NO dominion OVER me.
Rom 6:12
Sin shall not have DOMINION over you:
For ye are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE.
The WHY Jesus BREATHED "ON" His disciples is clearly REVEALED. They were being SENT out to begin TESTIFYING of Jesus' ACCORDING TO Jesus' Word ABOUT Jesus Himself. They were given the POWER to testify OF Jesus, ACCORDING TO JESUS!

WRONG again.
He gave them the power to FORGIVE SINS in His name.

He told them "As the Father sent me, so I am sending YOU."

What did the Father send Jesus here to do?? To FORGIVE SIN.
Yours is simply a denial of what Scripture plainly says . . .

Not a secret. Gods BREATH HAS POWER.
Not a secret. Adam was created, NOT BORN.
Not a secret. Every earthly man is GIVEN POWER FROM GOD, to bring the earth BODY of DUST, into a living state.
Not a secret. WHEN that POWER of God, departs OUT of an earthly BODY, the BODY becomes Naturally and Physically DEAD!
Under Jewish LAW, as Jews knew, as Jews understood, as Jews were teaching Jews...
Acts against men, were "CALLED" SINS.
Not a newsflash, Gentiles were NOT UNDER Jewish Laws.
Not a newsflash, God forgives Gentiles of SIN against God, according to HIS GRACE, NOT according to Jewish LAW.
Not a newsflash, Gentile men forgive men of trespassing against them.
Uh huh...And a Gentile WHO receives Forgiveness from the SON, Christ the Lord Jesus.....thereafter Recives the the Seed of God, is re-birthed, and IS KEPT FROM the dominion of Sin, BY THE "INDWELLING" Power of the Holy Spirit.
And? Were the Jewish "disciples", who became the Jewish "Apostles" SENT BY Jesus to Gentiles? Uh NO!
They were SENT TO JEWS, to teach Jews, according to WHAT Jews understood, and TO WHAT had become SOMETHING NEW FOR THEM TO KNOW....and Understand...
The OLD COVENANT; of REPEATED Animal Blood for forgiveness of sin, and atonement BY the earthly Priest.....WAS being REPLACED
BY the ONE TIME given of BLOOD of Jesus for forgiveness of sin, and the atonement was BY Christ Jesus Himself, THEE High Priest of God.
I already ACCEPTED Christ's ONE TIME FORGIVENESS, and HIS atonement, and HIS Restoration of my soul, and HIS Seed quickening my spirit, and His INDWELLING Spirit, and His covering of my sin of darkness with His Light, and His INDWELLING POWER, KEEPING me freed from sin, KEEPING sin from having DOMINION over me.
YOU haven't. That you. You do not operate under Grace. You operate under the Law. You repeatedly ask an earthly man to forgive you of SINS, you commit against other people.
Why would Paul make a "small case" for reconciliation? Duh!

Paul was INDWELT with the Holy Spirit, and thus was prepared to Speak AS A MINISTER, the Word of God, teaching other men About Christ and HOW they could become reconciled unto God through Christ the Lord Jesus.
Not a newsflash. Men WHO are INDWELT with the HOLY SPIRIT are prepared to Speak the Word of God, according to God, to other men, that other men may also elect to be reconciled unto God.
You confuse NOTIFYING a man IS FORGIVEN His sins THROUGH Christ; with making MEN the forgiver of sin.
Only God forgives SIN.
Ministering to men ABOUT God, according to God, IS after God has given the man Power to do so.
An earthly man Teaching a man, telling a man his sins are forgiven; is notifying the man .... NOT FORGIVING the man of his SIN.
You do not understand the difference between a man UNDER the LAW, and a man UNDER Grace.
A few, Jews were teach a few Jews, HOW to now longer be UNDER the Law; and to LEARN HOW TO come UNDER Christ the Lord Jesus' GRACE, to be ONCE and FOREVER FORGIVEN their SIN Against God; And the INTERNAL Dwelling of the LORDS Spirit IN THEM, to Saved their souls, quicken their spirits, change their hearts, deal with other men who trespass against them, practice the Lords precepts, lean on the strength of the INDWELLING Holy Spirit, receive wisdom and understanding FROM the indwelling Lords Spirit....
Well dude....a FEW Jews accepted Jesus and His Grace.....BUT MANY Jews DIDN"T...and KEPT themselves UNDER the Law, and still do to this DAY....and thus they must REPEAT over and over asking for FORGIVENSS, hoping in their own ending, they will have BEEN obedient to the Law, DONE enough GOOD WORKS, "TO BE SAVED"!!
THAT is what YOU DO and PREACH!
YOU reject Jesus' GRACE of Forgiveness.
YOU reject Jesus' GRACE of Change.
YOU reject Jesus' Indwelling POWER to KEEP a man FROM SIN.
YOU teach the same, as WHAT YOU DO.
I Don't DO WHAT YOU DO.
I have accepted Jesus' GRACE, and ALL the blessing that go along with HAVING Accepted His Grace, and His gifts He has given me.

No - you've rejected His Church and its Authority.
You've rejected what He bestowed upon His Church our of jealousy and hatred - and a LOT of ignorance.

As I educated you - Paul spoke of the Ministry of Reconciliation and forgiving people in his congregation of sins - in the PERSON of Christ.
This wasn't about simply "declaring" them forgiven. It was about forgiving them in Christ's name.

Peter warned that ignorant and unstable people like YOU wouldn't be able to understand Paul's letters - and judging by your verbose rant - he was RIGHT . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

Some mortal sins may include murder, abortion, rape, fornication, adultery, masturbation, calumny, perjury, etc.

See. I was right. Not easy to do.
Not easy to lose salvation, although I do believe in loss of salvation.
Abandon God, you lose salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't comprehend Scripture.
James was speaking to a "group".
James was a Jewish disciple of Jesus the Jew.
Every man James was speaking to; WAS James "Jewish" brother.
But not every man in the "group" was James
"IN CHRIST SPIRIT "bethren"".
James was speaking to BOTH.
You reveal your understanding to be....James was deciding WHO was already IN CHRIST and WHO was not.
YOU ERROR.
James was MINISTERING, teaching, preaching. About men who were still learning,
And About what is expected of men WHO decide to BE IN Christ.
It is the INDIVIDUAL, who KNOWS what words preached to them APPLIES or doesnt' APPLY.
Oh good grief man....SOME WERE, SOME WERE NOT! They know themselves, IF they have submitted to be IN Christ or Not.
James is teaching in James 4.....TO Submit themselves to God.
He is Teaching. Everyone did not jump up and shout....oooh rah, we submit!
Good grief, have you never sat in a Sancturary with ONE man speaking, and a whole crowd listening?
Are you completly UNAWARE, some HAVE already accepted and submitted TO the Lord, and received His Forgiveness, and His gifts of Salvation and Quickening and Freedom from Sin?..........And others have not?.......And others are just beginning to hear the Word of God for the first time?.

You're tripping over your own words.
The text in RED is a giant contradiction.

FIRST, you say that the people that James was writing to weren't born again Christians at all - and NOW you're saying that SOME were and some weren't. James told ALL of them to "confess their SINS" (James 5:16), which means that ALL of them still sinned.

Your shaky house of cards has collapsed once again . . .

Awesome, You have actually made a TRUTHFUL Statement....
Well NO KIDDING! There are NO FUTURE SINS, to require FORGIVENESS!!
Men WHO HAVE received FORGIVENESS from the Lord....have ALSO received HIS GIFTS...
A body dead to sin.
A restored and saved soul.
A new heart.
The Seed of God
A quickened spirit.
The "INDWELLING" Spirit of God.
The FREEDOM "from" SIN.
LOL, your denseness prevails.
You are STILL dominated BY SIN.
I am FREED from Sin.
You are claiming your parents and a priest caused the Birth of your spirit, and you have no memory of MAKING such a choice, or YOU calling on the Lord.
And you are still waiting to BE saved.
I MADE MY election, I CALLED on the Lord,
I received His HIS GRACE, His GIFTS.
I am claiming I. Received "HIS" Forgiveness.
I am claiming my SOUL is already restored and Saved, BY Christ the Lord Himself.
I am claiming my SPIRIT is already quickened and Kept, By Christ the Lord Himself.
I am claiming My Lords Spirit dwells IN ME, and Keeps me faithful unto Him ONLY.
I am claiming His Power KEEPS me FREE FROM SIN, that I can SIN NO MORE....
JUST AS HE TEACHES, and YOU REJECT...
And YOU FURTHER call it UNBIBLICAL, when it is PLAINLY WRITTEN "IN Scripture".
1 John 3;9.
You CALLING Scripture plainly stated UnBiblical, IS YOUR own FALSE TEACHING of Gods Word.
A man WITH the Spirit of God, Would Have the Power of God within Him, and NEVER speak AGAINST the Word of God; as YOU DO.
We know men by their FRUITS....and their LYING accusations.
Your fruits reveal, You are a Gentile who has adopted being UNDER THE LAW, and Subject to the Consequences of the Law....that's you.
Your fruits reveal, You make FALSE claims about the WORD of God.
You reveal YOUR WAY, is the Catholic WAY.
My WAY, is the Lords WAY.
You reveal you come to Christian forums to lambast ANYONE who does not agree with Catholic teaching.
News pal, NO ONE has to consider Catholic teaching, TO accept the Lord; His Way, His Gifts!
They are NOT counterfeit beliefs, or arroagant, or ungodly...as YOU falsely claim.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is BORN OF GOD....
A) doth NOT COMMIT SIN
B) CANNOT SIN
C) BECAUSE He "IS" Born of God.
Since you repeatedly CLAIM FOR YOURSELF;
THAT you CAN SIN;
THAT YOU DO SIN;
THEN YOU are NOT whosever: BORN OF GOD.
THAT's YOU pal. Not me!
So carry on your merry way....
Keep committing SIN, Keep asking a MAN to Forgive You YOUR sins, Keep teaching AGAINST the Word of God, Keep hoping you will be SAVED, Keep teaching an Individual does NOT have to Confess to the Lord, and all the other nonsense and accusations you babble out of your mouth.
IT means NOTHING to me.
You ARE without Understanding.
You ARE in a position to TEACH Catholic Ways.
You ARE NOT in a position to TEACH the Lords Way.
I don't care about Catholic Ways!
I have ALREADY Learned and Accepted the Lord's Way.

WRONG again, sparky.

Paul says that HE, a born again Christian still sinned (Rom. 7:14-25, 1 Tim. 1:15).
Paul says that Peter sinned (Gal. 2:11).
John says that born again Christians still sin and included himself (1 John 1:8).
James says that born again Christians still sin (James 5:16).

YOU'RE the only one who denies that you sin, which means that the truth is NOT in you (1 John 1:8).
Good luck with that when you are being judged by Christ.

I'll continue to pray for your arrogant soul . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

See. I was right. Not easy to do.
Not easy to lose salvation, although I do believe in loss of salvation.
Abandon God, you lose salvation.

Not easy to do??
Sooooo, you don't think that there are millions and millions of people falling into grave sexual sin or gossip??
You NEVER hear people taking God's name in vain??