Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Stranger]

It's not for me OR you to know WHO stopped having faith.
That is between them and God.

I DO know, however, that the Word of God warns us about it . . .
Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

Yes you like to give a long list of verses that 'supposedly' prove your position. But, they don't. Now what do you do?

If faith comes from God, and it does, why would one 'stop' having faith?

It is important for the Roman church and other Protestant churches to always hang over the head of the believer the threat that they will lose their salvation. Supposedly keeps everyone in line. Keeps the money coming in. And they, these churches, can glory in your flesh. I am a great priest or pastor for see how those in the pews are being obedient.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

That's completely false...

Perhaps according to your belief system.

However, according to the Word of God -- which is inspired, inerrant, and infallible -- it is God's truth. Those who are children of God through the New Birth are guaranteed to be perfected and glorified.

ROMANS 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together...

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[LC627]

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

A M E N !

 

[Triumph1300]

Jesus Christ died for past, present and future sins. Do you not believe? God bless.

Absolutely.
But the problem is you folks promoting OSAS forget to mention REPENTANCE.
There is no forgiveness without REPENTANCE.

You guys are preaching: "GO AND SIN "SOME MORE" - We'r saved anyways. We are under the blood."

(A doctrine right out of the pit of hell and it's leading people to the pit.)

Scroll back on this thread and see how often OSAS promoters mentioned "repentance" !!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Sanctification is a PROCESS - not a one-time event.

Of course sanctification is a process. Coming to faith in Christ is the one time event, Rom 10:9.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Actually - this is a blatant LIE.
Scripture teaches the exact opposite is true . . .

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE (epignosis) of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and OVERCOME by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who are BORN AGAIN and have had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS– who can be OVERCOME by the defilements of the world fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

No, these people heard and had knowledge of the Gospel but never believed.

Nowhere is the word "believed" in this chapter, not even in the KJV.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No - just because GOD is faithful forever doesn't mean that WE are automatically faithful forever.
HE'S perfect - you're not . . .

and is exactly why His blood covers all sin.

 

[Heb 13:8]

OSAS is a false doctrine based on Luther's scrupulosity and Calvin's arrogance . . .

You gotta blame someone I gues, otherwise you couldn't keep your pride.

Why not blame Peter and Paul and all the others who wrote the NT.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I just gave you a laundry list of verses that warn us that we CAN lose everything.
Your denials don't make them "magically" go away . . .

The wolves lose everything because they never had it to begin with, they belong to a different father Matt 7:15-23

 

[Heb 13:8]

ONLY a born again person has an epignosis of Christ. BOTH Heb. 10:26-27

Heb 10 is using figurative language to give encouragement to the believer.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

Heb 10:25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Heb 12:5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

=================================================

Hearing and not receiving represents nonbelievers, but those in Heb 10 received the knowledge.

I do believe Heb 10:19-39 is referring to believers in Christ, but it is in fact using figurative language like all the warnings in Hebrews.

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:19-39 are both referring to maturity in Christ, they simply worded it in a different way (Heb 6:6 and Heb 10:26 hold to the same language of crucifixion).

I had stated a while back that Heb 6:4-6 is referring to maturity in Christ, thus starting at Heb 5:11. Can that not be applied to Heb 10 also? If it wasn't figurative then God would be changing His mind of eternal security in one verse to the next. In this case one section to the next, Heb 10:1-18 vs Heb 10:19-39.

Another way to look at the warnings in Hebrews is that the author is encouraging us by using figurative language to run the race and fight the good fight. The religious see the warnings as literal, but true believers see it as encouragement.

Do believers not have a word of encouragement when we're disciplined, Heb 12:5-6.

Heb 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

1 Jhn 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

adelphos: a brother
Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: adelphos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')
Short Definition: a brother
Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.

God bless.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The wolves lose everything because they never had it to begin with, they belong to a different father Matt 7:15-23

The "wolves" in Matt. 15-20 are false prophets.
The lost people on Matt. 7:21-23 are false disciples.

Good grief - do your homework . . .

 

[Taken]

I've given the official definition at least 5 dozen times on this thread alone.
It means a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge.

You cannot have a full, experiential knowledge of Christ and NOT be born again.

So you are claiming, Jews who heard a Jew speak to them one or more times, were all Full of the knowledge of Christ and all experienced the knowledge of Christ. Eh?

And you deduced they all became Born Again, Eh?

And they all became Saved? Eh? But they can lose their Salvation.........IF they do what?

And do they ALSO lose their Born Again Quickening? Eh?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Perhaps according to your belief system.
However, according to the Word of God -- which is inspired, inerrant, and infallible -- it is God's truth. Those who are children of God through the New Birth are guaranteed to be perfected and glorified.
ROMANS 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together...
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And those He is said to have "called" and "predestined" are those who CHOSE Him of their own free will.
God simply knew in advance because He is outside of time He didn't make the choice FOR us.

Once again - God doesn't drag ANYBODY kicking and screaming against their will into Heaven - NOR does He send anybody kicking and screaming against their will into Hell.
WE make the choice - not Him.

 

[LC627]

You guys are preaching: "GO AND SIN "SOME MORE" - We'r saved anyways. We are under the blood."

Any believer in Christ would not think like this. Our desire is to follow Christ. I believe in OSAS but I do not live my life with a "license to sin". I hate my past life of sin and do not desire to practice a willful life of sin. When I do sin I feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of that sin and ask for forgiveness. OSAS is not a license to sin and if anyone believes that then I would ask them to examine their faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you are claiming, Jews who heard a Jew speak to them one or more times, were all Full of the knowledge of Christ and all experienced the knowledge of Christ. Eh?
And you deduced they all became Born Again, Eh?
And they all became Saved? Eh? But they can lose their Salvation.........IF they do what?
And do they ALSO lose their Born Again Quickening? Eh?

No - I never said that they "ALL" became saved.
The verses I provided show that SOME who are saved will fall back into darkness and be LOST.

That's Scriptural truth - not MY opinion.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Any believer in Christ would not think like this. Our desire is to follow Christ. I believe in OSAS but I do not live my life with a "license to sin". I hate my past life of sin and do not desire to practice a willful life of sin. When I do sin I feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of that sin and ask for forgiveness. OSAS is not a license to sin and if anyone believes that then I would ask them to examine their faith.

And that's great - for YOU.

However, there ARE those who do fall back into a life of willful sin and LOSE their salvation - and THAT is what the verses I provided warn against.

 

[Triumph1300]

Any believer in Christ would not think like this. Our desire is to follow Christ. I believe in OSAS but I do not live my life with a "license to sin". I hate my past life of sin and do not desire to practice a willful life of sin. When I do sin I feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of that sin and ask for forgiveness. OSAS is not a license to sin and if anyone believes that then I would ask them to examine their faith.

Yes. But that's you.
I know a few that are not like you.

 

[LC627]

Yes. But that's you.
I know a few that are not like you.

Anyone who gets pleasure from willful sin - clearly does not love Jesus - loving God = keeping the commandments.

Someone who preaches "sin away" never really had their "sins washed away"

 

[BreadOfLife]

Heb 10 is using figurative language to give encouragement to the believer.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

Heb 10:25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Heb 12:5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

=================================================

Hearing and not receiving represents nonbelievers, but those in Heb 10 received the knowledge.

I do believe Heb 10:19-39 is referring to believers in Christ, but it is in fact using figurative language like all the warnings in Hebrews.

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:19-39 are both referring to maturity in Christ, they simply worded it in a different way (Heb 6:6 and Heb 10:26 hold to the same language of crucifixion).

I had stated a while back that Heb 6:4-6 is referring to maturity in Christ, thus starting at Heb 5:11. Can that not be applied to Heb 10 also? If it wasn't figurative then God would be changing His mind of eternal security in one verse to the next. In this case one section to the next, Heb 10:1-18 vs Heb 10:19-39.

Another way to look at the warnings in Hebrews is that the author is encouraging us by using figurative language to run the race and fight the good fight. The religious see the warnings as literal, but true believers see it as encouragement.

Do believers not have a word of encouragement when we're disciplined, Heb 12:5-6.

Heb 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

1 Jhn 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

adelphos: a brother
Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: adelphos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')
Short Definition: a brother
Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.

God bless.

Nice try - but you are still ignoring the most important word in the warning: EPIGNOSIS.

Epignosis is the Greek ford for “knowledge” that used here. It is NOT the usual word, which is Oida. This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge. This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

You cannot have Epignosis of Christ and NOT be born again.

 

[Triumph1300]

Someone who preaches "sin away" never really had their "sins washed away"

How would you know.
I have seen exactly that thing happening.