Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
Jesus didn't need to be brought to his senses, and He didn't teach the false doctrine of OSAS.
Surely, you can't be that stupid. James does not say Abraham was justified instantly.

And James 2 has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Rom 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

I think it's better to show mercy on the spiritually blind, tell them that God loves them anyways.

Here are some examples of justification as an on-going process, and not a one-time event:

Gen. 12:1-4 – Abram is justified here, as God promises to make his name great and bless the families of the earth through his seed. Abram is justified by his faith in God. Heb. 11:8-10 confirms Abraham’s justification occurred here, before Gen. 15:6 (later) by referring to Gen. 12, not Gen. 15. Abraham’s justification increased over time because justification is not a one-time event, but an ongoing process of growing in holiness.

Gen. 14:19, 22-23 – Abram is also justified here, by being blessed by the priest-king Melchizedek. Melchizedek calls Abram blessed and Abram gives him a tenth of everything.

Gen. 15:6 – Abram is further justified here, as God promises him that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. Because the Scripture says, “He believed the Lord, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness,” Protestants often say this was Abram’s initial justification, and cite Rom 4:2 to prove Abram was justified by his faith. Yes, it is true Abram was justified by his faith, but he was justified 25 years earlier in Gen. 12:1-4, as Heb. 11:8-10 proves.

Gen. 22:1-18 – Abraham is further justified here, this time by works, when he offered his son Isaac as a sacrifice to God. James 2:21 proves this as James writes, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” James then confirms this by writing, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (James 2:23). These verses prove that justification before God is an on-going process, not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, and is accomplished by faith and works.

You are recycling the same losing arguments you gave a few weeks ago. I won't waste my time refuting them a third time.

Ah yes the OT, before Pentecost and the seal of God.

That has nothing to do with the quote of mine. I said: "Believers in Christ cannot fall away if they endure to the end." Perseverance, found in the NT 11 times, destroys the OSAS myth. If salvation is assured, you don't need to persevere.

Enduring to the end in Matt 24 is referring to martyrdom in the 70th week, it has nothing to do with our dispensation. The only way to Heaven is through His blood. Either you are born again or not, Either you believe and confess or not. The Gospel is based on believism, is probably why so many hate the message. People would rather be God and saves themselves than humble themselves to Jesus Christ and the cross. God bless.
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
The Catholic religious surrender their lives to Jesus Christ daily.. If this is all that is required, i guess im puzzeled why you wouldnt join us?

Edited to add:
Or do you not know what we do at Mass?

Peace!

Hi Philip, surrendering to Jesus Christ daily is sanctification and discipline, Heb 12. What's the point of surrendering daily without believing in your heart first, John 3:3, Rom 10:9. God bless.
 

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Wow, did your parents teach you that? It's time to grow up BOL.
No, Jesus taught the Apostles that, who taught their successors who taught BoL. The evidence is there for anyone who wishes to see it.

Yup, and believing in the resurrection is the hard part, wouldn't you say BOL?
So does the word "maturity", but you don't see God sending believers to hell because of lack of maturity.
Oh my obedience and faith is just fine, I'm more concerned for you and where this doctrine is taking you.
and you keep quoting James 2 as if it's speaking of losing salvation. Alzheimer's is tough.
I believe Alzheimer's does hit around 3 million cases per year.
All of your recycled arguments have been refuted so you resort to childish insults and stupid zingers.
 

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
That's because the author is referencing believers in Christ who have already confessed their sins. :rolleyes:
So what. So does most of the Bible.

Eph 2:1-3 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
The subject here is Eph. 2:8-9 , not Eph. 2:1-3.

And if they sit back they don't lose salvation, they are sanctified and disciplined, Heb 12. The accusing spirit doesn't change the Gospel message no matter how many times you log on.
God wouldn't bother disciplining anyone who is guaranteed salvation, no matter how many times you log on.

Well, let me ask you this first. Do you believe spiritual water is biblical?
There is no such thing as physical, wet spiritual water. You are being ridiculous.

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
This has nothing to do with wet, physical water. It's a non sequitur fallacy.

Read again BOL. Notice HOW we become children of God, it is through belief.
No one denies this. We can't please God without faith. But believing is only the beginning of the life long process of justification, as I have shown you twice with Abraham.

Galatians 5:6 the faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith.

Rom. 11:20-23 – in expounding on Jesus’ teaching in John 15, Paul teaches that the Jews (the natural branches) were broken off by lack of faith (v.20), but says that the Romans stand fast through faith (v. 21). So the Romans are justified. However, Paul then says that the Romans can also be cut off if they don’t persevere in faith and kindness (v. 22-23). Hence, those justified before God can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation (be “cut off”). Paul also says that those who are cut off can be grafted back in if they do not persist in their unbelief, for God has the power to graft them in again (v.23). These verses are devastating to the “once saved, always saved” position.

Jhn 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
All who never heard the gospel, through no fault of their own, spend an eternity in hell, according to Calvin.
They don't have faith in what exactly?
Proving a negative is a tactic of atheists.
James 2:19 "...the demons also believe, and tremble."
What part of "the demons also believe, and tremble" don't you understand?
If you were smart you would leave this one alone instead of harping on it.

Because you take the word "works" out of context. You're using it to save yourself instead of believing on the finished work of the cross. It's His works that save us, not ours. The devil is forever trying to be God, wouldn't you say BOL?
That is a classic straw man fallacy. You should use quotes instead of making things up.


Once-Saved-Always-Saved-quote.jpg


devil.png
 
Last edited:

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,276
3,092
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hi Philip, surrendering to Jesus Christ daily is sanctification and discipline, Heb 12. What's the point of surrendering daily without believing in your heart first, John 3:3, Rom 10:9. God bless.

Do you know many who surrender their lives to Jesus daily that dont believe in their hearts?

Peace!
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,323
10,043
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is evident that many folks have a difficult time understanding scripture in general. They tend to make porridge out of it to make it stick on the wall, like glue. It is a clever ploy and can convince many, those natural minded. The truth in scripture is already written on the walls without human effort. One just needs to understand its spiritual language and stop obscuring it with graffiti.

Gaining Salvation to immortality for many is apparently a difficult task. And it will always be a difficult and even an impossible task if one keeps trying their own way to get there. God knows the heart and the desires of it. When the time is right, and the heart and mind is ready, the soil for planting the seed for salvation in fertile soil shall occur. We don’t work for salvation, we first BELIEVE is the requirements of salvation as described in scripture.

The classic rebuttal that the demons ‘also believe expression,’ is very a childish one, indeed. Yes, and one is to also believe that they belief to salvation as well. They believe in their fate and understand more and therefore have knowledge or epignosis of such things as the gospel and scripture. Of course, they clearly believe, that they also are condemned. This worn-out useless expression that ‘the demons also believe.’ need to be retired.

Paul says work out your salvation not because you are in jeopardy of losing salvation, it is to keep the measure of faith and pace of growth in this faith throughout a believer’s life. Working out and not working for is cooperating with God as we walk in spirit, and in holiness (sanctification) we exercise our salvation status. These are the spiritual works that given fruit.

When Paul says work out one’s salvation with ‘fear and trembling’ he speaks to having complete reverence and respect for God in doing so. Be completely serious in the matter. Paul is not wanting a believer to be physical scared in mind and body leaving many doubts about their ‘works.’ That is the old cruel pagan stance was deliberately used as leverage to make many well in servitude, be penniless and in constant fear of the officials and leaders representing their ‘Church.’ These tyrants played these people ‘like a fiddle.’

When Paul was speaking of confirming one’s calling and election in 2 Peter 1:10, he was simply saying, in what you are doing for God, please ensure you are doing it from the heart, in spirit, in sound-mind, in faith, in love, in reverence for God; the right reasons. Your heart must be in the ‘game.’ (2 Perter 1:3-11)

Folks take scripture out of context as common as the liberal press or any politician likes to find anything in words to gain traction for their cause that usually is not an honest quest.

As an example, the expression ‘but he (those) that endures to the end will be saved.’ It does not mean someone in their life-time, work for salvation with self- endurance and self-triumphs. That goes against scripture in many places.

Jesus replied to the disciples about his return. He was speaking of many hundreds of years in the future. Jesus was speaking of folks throughout the centuries becoming saved up to his return (‘to the end’). They endured and became believers in their life-time and have salvation. They never believed the many false teachers that arose as many did and did not endure.

APAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,977
3,416
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wow, did your parents teach you that? It's time to grow up BOL.
No - the Bible and Christ's Church taught me that (Matt. 28:16-20).
If by "growing up", you mean that I should distance myself from Christ as YOU have - no thanks.
So does the word "maturity", but you don't see God sending believers to hell because of lack of maturity.
But He will for a rejection of epignosis - which is apostasy . . .
and you keep quoting James 2 as if it's speaking of losing salvation. Alzheimer's is tough.
Can you do me a favor and SHOW me where I said that James 2 is about losing salvation??
As a matter of fact - I have told you on more than one occasion that it is NOT about losing salvation - but you insist n lying about this.

I wonder why that is . . .
I believe Alzheimer's does hit around 3 million cases per year.[/QUOTE]
Translation: "I have no intelligent response for your comment about the definition of true faith."

That's what I thought . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,977
3,416
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's because the author is referencing believers in Christ who have already confessed their sins.
Eph 2:1-3 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

And if they sit back they don't lose salvation, they are sanctified and disciplined, Heb 12. The accusing spirit doesn't change the Gospel message no matter how many times you log on.
Tell that to Jesus who said just the opposite in the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats . . .

Matt. 25:41-43
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Well, let me ask you this first. Do you believe spiritual water is biblical?
Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
Yup, but YOUR problem - as always - is CONTEXT.

The first 3 chapters of the Gospel John show a contextual use of water and transformation of spirit.
In John 7 - He is clearly talking about something else.
Read again BOL. Notice HOW we become children of God, it is through belief.
Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Jhn 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
MAKING peace is a work, Einstein . . .
They don't have faith in what exactly?
They have BELIEF in God but they aren't saved.
YOU keep stating that we are saved by "belief". The Bible, however, says that we are saved by FAITH.

It ALSO shows us what TRUE faith is (James 2:14-26):
It is a marriage of Belief + Obedience (works)
Yeah, it's called false belief. Honoring God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him, Luke 8:13. No root in apostates, not even those who own laptops.
RUBBISH.

Apostasy is the repudiation of faith.
In other words, sparky - you must HAVE faith in order to turn away from it.

Look - you can deny the the truth of the Church - but you can't change the definition of "apostasy" just because you don't agree with it . . .
Because you take the word "works" out of context. You're using it to save yourself instead of believing on the finished work of the cross. It's His works that save us, not ours. The devil is forever trying to be God, wouldn't you say BOL?
And there you go again with your lies.
I never said we are saved by our "works".
Work out, not work for.
Yes, another one of your favorite mantras.
Now - explain the difference.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,672
13,049
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No - tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines while claiming they were ALL led by the Holy Spirit is not "silly". It's tragic and it's an abomination before God.

You are claiming tens of thousands of Protestant sects are teaching there is a different WAY to become Saved and Born Again other than THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus?

I disagree.

Not only does this have NOTHING to do with what we were talking about - you just PROVED my point again . . .

Funny. Nothing to DO with the point but proved your point...? LOL

, YOU indicated what happened to the other Apostles yet you have absolutely ZERO evidence for your claims except for what you have heard from CATHOLIC TRADITION.

They lived, they became saved and born again, they spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they died. Their body returned to dust. Their soul went to heaven and they await the descent of the Son to the clouds to call them up in their glorious body's. Not particularly news for any converted man.
I have NOT Catholic tradition to credit for the Truth, but rather Christ the Lord Jesus.

Scripture DOESN'T tell us what happened to them . . .

Scripture notifies us they were human man who became Converted. The same happened to them as it does for every Spiritually Converted man.

...Protestant sects that YOU refer to as "The Church."

Yet another of your FALSE ACCUSATIONS...
No surprise.

Why do YOU consider it to be the "Lord's Word" if its canonicity was decided upon by a "false" church??

You are yet again attempting to bestow credit upon your Catholic Church, FOR Scriptural Writings. The Hebrews and the Jews were the ones with the pen in hand writing.

Copying and Compiling, breaking into books and chapters and verses DOES NOT CREDIT them with original writing as you imply.

This is hypocrisy at its WORST . . .

You are noted as implying hypocrisy. I will note that is applicable to you.

I'm not a "false accuser".

Yes, you are. You make up junk, and say that is others claims, when it is false.

It is YOU who cannot accept the word "Epignosis" that is used TWELVE times in the New Testament to describe born again believers in Christ.

Identify these TWELVE born again believers, and WHEN they became UNBORN....according to Scripture....
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,977
3,416
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are claiming tens of thousands of Protestant sects are teaching there is a different WAY to become Saved and Born Again other than THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus?

I disagree.
You can "disagree" all you want because that's NOT what I said.
I said they they were teaching different doctrines - many of them on the ESSENTIALS.

You need to pay attention to the conversation . . .
They lived, they became saved and born again, they spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they died. Their body returned to dust. Their soul went to heaven and they await the descent of the Son to the clouds to call them up in their glorious body's. Not particularly news for any converted man.
I have NOT Catholic tradition to credit for the Truth, but rather Christ the Lord Jesus.
Scripture notifies us they were human man who became Converted. The same happened to them as it does for every Spiritually Converted man.
WRONG.

Not only do you have ORAL Catholic Tradition - you have the Canon of Scripture which was compiled and declared by the Catholic Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the FOURTH century.

No matter HOW you slice it - everything you heard about the Apostles came from the Catholic Church . . .
Yet another of your FALSE ACCUSATIONS...
No surprise.
WRONG.
I said:
Yet, it was the CATHOLIC CHURCH who sifted through the hundreds of Books and declared WHICH ones wee inspired under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This was NOT left up to ANY of the tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that YOU refer to as "The Church."

Exactly WHICH part of that is a "false accusation"??
You are yet again attempting to bestow credit upon your Catholic Church, FOR Scriptural Writings. The Hebrews and the Jews were the ones with the pen in hand writing.

Copying and Compiling, breaking into books and chapters and verses DOES NOT CREDIT them with original writing as you imply.
The Catholic Church DECLARED which Books were inspired and which Books were NOT inspired.
this took place in the 4th century. at the Council of Rome in 383 and reiterated at the Councils of Carthage in 393 and Hippo in 397.

Now, I ask you AGAIN: WHY would you trust a "false" pagan church to declare which Books were inspired?
Yes, you are. You make up junk, and say that is others claims, when it is false.
Then, name ONE false statement I have made.
Just ONE . . .
Identify these TWELVE born again believers, and WHEN they became UNBORN....according to Scripture....
I said that the WORD "Epignosis" is used 12 times in the NT.
I didn't say that this word was used to identify 12 individuals who had LOST their Epignosis.

Nice try - but now, you're getting desperate . . .
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,672
13,049
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,977
3,416
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Already identified. Pay attention.
....protestant sects that you refer to as the Church.

Soooooo, you DON'T refer to Protestant sects as the Church??
You DON'T believe that you are the Church??
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,672
13,049
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Soooooo, you DON'T refer to Protestant sects as the Church??


Soooooooo, did you quote me making "your" claim? Uh no.

You DON'T believe that you are the Church??

I have stated my views of what I DO believe.
If that is not satisfactory for you, that is not my problem.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,672
13,049
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
APAK ~

Sadly it is obvious, some do not comprehend
Conversion is a ONE TIME Spiritual and Holy event that occurs during a mans natural life. And ONCE the Conversion occurs, it is forever the Lord who IS the Truth, says He will be with and IN the Converted man.
And THAT no one can UNDO what the Lord has accomplished in that man.

It simply appears some men have no basic understanding of what A Conversion Means.

Very Strange that what is accomplished in a Conversion appears to not "be" paramount in "some" church teaching.

God Bless you my brother IN Christ,
Taken
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,672
13,049
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Where exactly is EASY in OSAS ?

Be SURE of your Election of God.
Because you are making a choice of your own FREEWILL.
Freely choose the Lord God to be your God FOREVER
And for your True Confession
He will Give you what you Asked for;
A ONCE and FOREVER Conversion
BY and THROUGH CHRIST.



This is a meme presented by a Catholic....calling the Lord's Word a lie from Satan. Shameful!

Jude 24
To HIM who is able to you from falling...

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish,
NO ONE can snatch them out of my hand.

Eph 4:30
Sealed FOR the day of redemption...
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
No, Jesus taught the Apostles that, who taught their successors who taught BoL. The evidence is there for anyone who wishes to see it.


All of your recycled arguments have been refuted so you resort to childish insults and stupid zingers.

Jesus taught that you must be born again and believe, Rom 10:9 John 3:3. The Gospel hasn't changed in 2000 years. God bless.
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
There is no such thing as physical, wet spiritual water. You are being ridiculous.

epostle1, I'm referring to spiritual water that flows from the kingdom of God into the hearts and minds of believers in Christ. Where do you think anointing comes from? This is spiritual water that the world cannot see.

God wouldn't bother disciplining anyone who is guaranteed salvation, no matter how many times you log on.

And those that are guaranteed are those who have believed and confessed, Rom 10:9.

No one denies this. We can't please God without faith. But believing is only the beginning of the life long process of justification, as I have shown you twice with Abraham.

Proving justification is a process in the OT is the same as using the life of Judas to prove loss of salvation, both occurred before Pentecost and the seal of God.

Rom. 11:20-23 – in expounding on Jesus’ teaching in John 15, Paul teaches that the Jews (the natural branches) were broken off by lack of faith (v.20), but says that the Romans stand fast through faith (v. 21). So the Romans are justified. However, Paul then says that the Romans can also be cut off if they don’t persevere in faith and kindness (v. 22-23). Hence, those justified before God can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation (be “cut off”). Paul also says that those who are cut off can be grafted back in if they do not persist in their unbelief, for God has the power to graft them in again (v.23). These verses are devastating to the “once saved, always saved” position.

Rom 11 and John 15 both are using metaphorical language, similiar to how Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-31 are using metaphorical language to describe maturity in Christ.

All who never heard the gospel, through no fault of their own, spend an eternity in hell, according to Calvin.

Rom 1:20

Proving a negative is a tactic of atheists.
James 2:19 "...the demons also believe, and tremble."
What part of "the demons also believe, and tremble" don't you understand?
If you were smart you would leave this one alone instead of harping on it.

Well, you're actually taking it out of context. James 2 has nothing to do with losing salvation, it's referring to Godly righteousness or lack thereof. Are demons righteous and friends of God? Demons believe Jesus is God, but they don't believe He is their savior.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

God bless
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
No - the Bible and Christ's Church taught me that (Matt. 28:16-20).
If by "growing up", you mean that I should distance myself from Christ as YOU have - no thanks.

And the Bible doesn't teach that a believer can fall away and go to hell. The only people that will be in hell are those who haven't believed and confessed, Rom 10:9.

But He will for a rejection of epignosis - which is apostasy . . .

Which in context is using metaphorical language in Heb 6 and Heb 10.

Can you do me a favor and SHOW me where I said that James 2 is about losing salvation?? As a matter of fact - I have told you on more than one occasion that it is NOT about losing salvation - but you insist n lying about this.

Well that's what you believe (loss of salvation), so since you're believing in a false doctrine you're basically taking all scripture out of context, not just James 2. God bless
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
Yup, but YOUR problem - as always - is CONTEXT.

I'm not the one preaching works salvation dude.

In John 7 - He is clearly talking about something else.

Only those in Christ understand spiritual water, water that the world cannot see. This is anointing from the Kingdom of God itself.

MAKING peace is a work, Einstein . . .

No, peacemakers is a title given to believers in Christ. It's who they are and not something to work for to keep your salvation secure.

Matt 5:1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him,

YOU keep stating that we are saved by "belief". The Bible, however, says that we are saved by FAITH.

And your faith is a result of your belief, Rom 10:9 was written before Eph 2:8-9.

It ALSO shows us what TRUE faith is (James 2:14-26):
It is a marriage of Belief + Obedience (works)

And that's wut believers have is a marriage BOL, less you accuse the brethren?

Apostasy is the repudiation of faith.
In other words, sparky - you must HAVE faith in order to turn away from it.

Nope, faith is the subject in which to obtain. Apostates never had that faith, they never had the root which is Jesus Christ.

Look - you can deny the the truth of the Church - but you can't change the definition of "apostasy" just because you don't agree with it . . .

No, I accept the truth of the church, Rom 10:9. Apostasy refers to those who do not have the root of Christ.

And there you go again with your lies.
I never said we are saved by our "works".

Ok, so if we're not saved by works, what makes you think works will keep us saved in the end?