Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[Philip James]

Yes, it's called religion, or should I say wolves? Matt 7:15.

So you can judge our hearts?
Shame on you!

 

[Heb 13:8]

So you can judge our hearts?
Shame on you!

1 John 4:1

 

[Philip James]

1 John 4:1

Do you really want to go there? You'll not find any faithful Catholic that will meet any of the descrptions of the antichrists that John mentions...

You will however find them in some others who claim to be Christian

 

[BreadOfLife]

And the Bible doesn't teach that a believer can fall away and go to hell. The only people that will be in hell are those who haven't believed and confessed, Rom 10:9.

The Bible absolutely teaches this - as I have shown you on NUMEROUS occasions (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

Which in context is using metaphorical language in Heb 6 and Heb 10.

NOTHING could be further from the truth.

It's funny how many verses in Scripture magically become "metaphorical" when YOU and your fellow OSAS myth enthusiasts disagree with them.
"Epignosis" is a very real word and is use sparingly in Scripture to relate a very REAL condition.

Well that's what you believe (loss of salvation), so since you're believing in a false doctrine you're basically taking all scripture out of context, not just James 2. God bless

And you have YET to show me HOW I'm taking these verses "out" of context.
Simple denial and finger-pointing is NOT evidence, son . . .

 

[epostle]

The classic rebuttal that the demons ‘also believe expression,’ is very a childish one, indeed. Yes, and one is to also believe that they belief to salvation as well. They believe in their fate and understand more and therefore have knowledge or epignosis of such things as the gospel and scripture. Of course, they clearly believe, that they also are condemned. This worn-out useless expression that ‘the demons also believe.’ need to be retired.

Then get a black marker and cross James 2:19 out of your Bible. It illustrates the futility and uselessness of faith alone, faith in your faith. Justification by faith alone is a man made tradition, the verse has nothing to do with refuting OSAS. Faith without works is dead faith. James 2:24, which refutes "faith alone" stronger than James 2:19. It's not a slogan, it's scripture. JBFA is a slogan.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not the one preaching works salvation dude.

And neither am I - and neither is the Church.
Why you keep claiming that is BEYOND me.

Try to stay honest here . . .

Only those in Christ understand spiritual water, water that the world cannot see. This is anointing from the Kingdom of God itself.

And, as I pointed out - YOU have a problem with CONTEXT.

In John 1 through John 3, we see the use and symbolism of WATER (H2O).
In John 7, Jesus is clearly talking about another context. You should know better than that . . .

No, peacemakers is a title given to believers in Christ. It's who they are and not something to work for to keep your salvation secure.
Matt 5:1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him,

No - "Peacemakers" is a TITLE given to those who WORK for peace.
The Beatitides are about ACTION - not just "belief."
And your faith is a result of your belief, Rom 10:9 was written before Eph 2:8-9.
WRONG.
Faith is a marriage of Belief + Obedience.

And that's wut believers have is a marriage BOL, less you accuse the brethren?

Unless you have a marriage of belief + obedience - you do NOT have true faith.
I'm using the word "marriage" here as 2 things perfectly joined - NOT as a man and wife.

Nope, faith is the subject in which to obtain. Apostates never had that faith, they never had the root which is Jesus Christ.
No, I accept the truth of the church, Rom 10:9. Apostasy refers to those who do not have the root of Christ.

That is an absolute falsehood based on a real ignorance of the English language.
Apostasy is the repudiation of a once-held belief or creed or ideology.

Ok, so if we're not saved by works, what makes you think works will keep us saved in the end?

Jesus said it - I believe it . . .

Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven."

Matt. 25:34-45
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you DID for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, YOU DID FOR ME.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you DID NOT DO for one of the least of these, you DID NOT DO FOR ME.’


That's called "OBEDIENCE", which is True faith

 

[epostle]

I'm not the one preaching works salvation dude.

The never ending LIE mantra that infects most of Protestantism. "works salvation" is called Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born. Who duped you into that?

James 2:24 – the phrase “faith alone” (the Greek “pisteos monon”) only occurs once in the Bible. “Man is justified by works and NOT faith alone.” Unlike what many Protestant churches teach, no where in Scripture does it say that man is justified or saved by “faith alone.” To the contrary, man is not justified by faith alone. In Catholic theology, a person is justified by faith and works acting together, which comes solely from God’s divine grace. Faith alone never obtains the grace of justification . Also, the word “justified” (dikaiow) is the same word Paul uses for justification in Rom. 4:3 in regard to Abraham (so Protestants cannot argue James is not referring to “justification” in James 2:24 unless they argue Paul wasn’t in Rom. 4:3 either).

Heb. 11:6 – faith is indeed the minimum requirement without which we cannot please God. But this is just the beginning of the process leading toward justification. Faith alone does not justify a person. Justification is only achieved by faith and works, as we see below. Also, this gratuitous gift of faith from God also includes the grace of hope and love the moment the person is justified.

Eph. 2:8-9 – Paul teaches us that faith is the root of justification, and that faith excludes “works of law.” But Paul does not teach that faith excludes other kinds of works, as we will see below. The verse also does not say we are justified by “faith alone.” It only indicates that faith comes first. This, of course, must be true, because those who do works outside of faith are in a system of debt, not of grace (more on that later). But faith alone does not justify. A man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. James 2:24

Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30 – the faith we have must be a repentant faith, not just an intellectual faith that believes in God. Repentance is not just a thought process (faith), but an act (work) by which we ask God for His mercy and forgiveness.

Psalm 51:17 – this means we need a “broken and contrite heart,” not just an intellectual assent of faith. Faith in God is only the beginning.

Gal. 5:6 – thus, the faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19.
Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith.

Heb., you have seen this more than once, yet you still come up with this same stupid "works salvation" insult. And you will again next week.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Do you really want to go there? You'll not find any faithful Catholic that will meet any of the descrptions of the antichrists that John mentions...

You will however find them in some others who claim to be Christian

aside from multiple catholic posters preaching non-osas on here?

 

[Heb 13:8]

The Bible absolutely teaches this - as I have shown you on NUMEROUS occasions (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

And numerous occasions you take them out of context, every single day.

It's funny how many verses in Scripture magically become "metaphorical" when YOU and your fellow OSAS myth enthusiasts disagree with them.
"Epignosis" is a very real word and is use sparingly in Scripture to relate a very REAL condition.

No, not magical. God is not in contradiction. He doesn't give us Eph 1:13-14 or Rom 8:33-39 just to change His mind in a split second when were disobedient. The blood of Christ is not flimsy, it is STRONG.

And you have YET to show me HOW I'm taking these verses "out" of context.
Simple denial and finger-pointing is NOT evidence, son . . .

Show you how? BOL, that's what spiritual blindness is. I've showed you multiple times, but to you what I say is not the truth. There's only so much I can do because God is the one that wakes people up.

 

[Heb 13:8]

In John 7, Jesus is clearly talking about another context.

It's funny how you can't describe to me Jhn 7. I wonder why that is?

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The never ending LIE mantra that infects most of Protestantism. "works salvation" is called Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born. Who duped you into that?

So why are you preaching it. Do you not know what you preach? I preach Grace Salvation epostle1.

James 2:24 – the phrase “faith alone” (the Greek “pisteos monon”) only occurs once in the Bible. “Man is justified by works and NOT faith alone.” Unlike what many Protestant churches teach, no where in Scripture does it say that man is justified or saved by “faith alone.” To the contrary, man is not justified by faith alone. In Catholic theology, a person is justified by faith and works acting together, which comes solely from God’s divine grace. Faith alone never obtains the grace of justification . Also, the word “justified” (dikaiow) is the same word Paul uses for justification in Rom. 4:3 in regard to Abraham (so Protestants cannot argue James is not referring to “justification” in James 2:24 unless they argue Paul wasn’t in Rom. 4:3 either).

James 2 is not about losing salvation.

Heb. 11:6 – faith is indeed the minimum requirement without which we cannot please God. But this is just the beginning of the process leading toward justification. Faith alone does not justify a person. Justification is only achieved by faith and works, as we see below. Also, this gratuitous gift of faith from God also includes the grace of hope and love the moment the person is justified.

And nowhere in Heb 11 is the word "justification" found. In fact, it's only mentioned four times in the NT, and all these passages are OSAS.

Act 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Rom 5:16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

This, of course, must be true, because those who do works outside of faith are in a system of debt, not of grace (more on that later)

You mean, like the religious.

Heb., you have seen this more than once, yet you still come up with this same stupid "works salvation" insult. And you will again next week.

Is because you think believers can fall away and go to hell. You don't even know what you're doing or what you're preaching. That's spiritual blindness. Only the blood of Christ keeps you from hell, not whatever snake oil you're swallowing.

 

[epostle1]

So why are you preaching it. Do you not know what you preach? I preach Grace Salvation epostle1.

I'm sure you do. Grace salvation is a doctrine you borrowed from the CC.
What you also preach is a false accusation.

 

[epostle1]

Is because you think believers can fall away and go to hell.

I never said that. I said, repeatedly, that believers can fall away. "go to hell" is a consequence of a false dichotomy. We don't pretend to know who goes to hell. Besides, people are not sent to hell, they send themselves. Everybody "falls away" in varying degrees, in thought, word and deed. As John says, are are sins that kill the soul and sins that don't. Those who partially fall way don't deserve hell, and they are not ready for heaven. Eliminating God's justice and mercy by denying purification after death turns God into a monster. There is something terribly wrong with Protestant eschatology; but it won't change the reality.

You mentioned several times that God disciplines His children, and that is true. That is purgatory on earth, but the "p" word gives you fits.

You don't even know what you're doing or what you're preaching. That's spiritual blindness. Only the blood of Christ keeps you from hell, not whatever snake oil you're swallowing.

How the blood of Christ is applied is not determined by human opinion.

 

[Taken]

Grace salvation is a doctrine you borrowed from the CC.

Wow. The Arrogance.

The Lord provides a man WITH Grace.
The Lord provides a man WITH Salvation.
The Lord provides a man WITH His Seed.
The Lord provides a man WITH His Seal.

The Lord is the PROVIDER of Life.
The Lord is the PROVIDER of All things.

It was NOT Catholics or the Catholic Church given exclusive Knowledge of the Lord as you imply, without the Catholic Church Gentiles could not be reconciled unto God with His Knowledge and His Spiritual Provisions.

 

[Taken]

And you have YET to show me HOW I'm taking these verses "out" of context.
Simple denial and finger-pointing is NOT evidence, son . . .

On a Christian Forum, when one CLAIMS to BE born again, the CLAIM signifies, they have BEEN CONVERTED. Thereafter "BELIEVER" in application TO THEM, also signifies, "CONVERTED".

Your teaching is corrupt.
You claim to BE "born again".... but then teach "Salvation" requires "cooperation", BY the man, To the ending of his life, BEFORE Salvation is ASSURED.

THAT IS FALSE.
Receiving the Gift of Salvation IS PART OF A MANS CONVERSION!!!!

The "so called" "cooperation" you speak of ...
IS THE CHOICES AN "UNCONVERTED" man of SIN MAKES...."TO BECOME CONVERTED"!!!

Your further Corruption IS TEACHING "UNCONVERTED MEN", can BECOME "CONVERTED", and THEN "UNCONVERTED".

Salvation IS "ONLY" LOST to an UNCONVERTED man, BECAUSE He NEVER RECEIVED a CONVERSION!

All day long UNCONVERTED MEN CAN BELIEVE.

All day long UNCONVERTED MEN CAN receive FAITH from God.

NOTHING WHATSOEVER, forces such men TO REACH OUT TO THE Lord and CONFESS and RECEIVE "HIS GIFT" of Conversion!

A man IS NOT CONVERTED, "because he believes, because he has received faith, because he teaches, because he preaches, because he was sprinkled or dipped in water, because he joined a man-made Church, because he has knowledge of the Lord, because he calls himself a Christian, a Catholic, a Protestant, ....."

A MAN IS CONVERTED; WHEN....
He has believed in HIS HEART;
REPENTED TO the Lord for HIS DISBELIEF;
Willingly GIVEN His LIFE "TO" the Lord;
Received Forgiveness, Received Salvation, Received Gods Seed, Received a Quickened Spirit, Received Spiritual Cleansing, Received Sanctification, Received Justification, Received a New Heart, Receive the INDWELLING Spirit of God, Received Freedom FROM Sin.

Your REJECTION of What ENTAILS a CONVERSION is REJECTED.

Your REJECTION of the Lords CONVERSION IS completely Satisfactory TO Him.....BY YOUR TEACHING, AFTER Conversion a man MUST maintain 'OBEDIENCE' and "COOPERATION" to the Lord....IS REJECTED.

A MAN IS NOT EQUIPPED to MAINTAIN his OWN "CONVERSION"!!!

The Lord Himself FOREVER "MAINTAINS" a mans CONVERSION, and such Converted man, SHALL NEVER BE LOST or DEPARTED from The Lord....(in CONTRAST to what you teach that IS Corrupt, and REJECTED).

 

[BreadOfLife]

On a Christian Forum, when one CLAIMS to BE born again, the CLAIM signifies, they have BEEN CONVERTED. Thereafter "BELIEVER" in application TO THEM, also signifies, "CONVERTED".

Your teaching is corrupt.
You claim to BE "born again".... but then teach "Salvation" requires "cooperation", BY the man, To the ending of his life, BEFORE Salvation is ASSURED.

THAT IS FALSE.
Receiving the Gift of Salvation IS PART OF A MANS CONVERSION!!!!

The "so called" "cooperation" you speak of ...
IS THE CHOICES AN "UNCONVERTED" man of SIN MAKES...."TO BECOME CONVERTED"!!!

Your further Corruption IS TEACHING "UNCONVERTED MEN", can BECOME "CONVERTED", and THEN "UNCONVERTED".

Salvation IS "ONLY" LOST to an UNCONVERTED man, BECAUSE He NEVER RECEIVED a CONVERSION!

All day long UNCONVERTED MEN CAN BELIEVE.

All day long UNCONVERTED MEN CAN receive FAITH from God.

NOTHING WHATSOEVER, forces such men TO REACH OUT TO THE Lord and CONFESS and RECEIVE "HIS GIFT" of Conversion!

A man IS NOT CONVERTED, "because he believes, because he has received faith, because he teaches, because he preaches, because he was sprinkled or dipped in water, because he joined a man-made Church, because he has knowledge of the Lord, because he calls himself a Christian, a Catholic, a Protestant, ....."

A MAN IS CONVERTED; WHEN....
He has believed in HIS HEART;
REPENTED TO the Lord for HIS DISBELIEF;
Willingly GIVEN His LIFE "TO" the Lord;
Received Forgiveness, Received Salvation, Received Gods Seed, Received a Quickened Spirit, Received Spiritual Cleansing, Received Sanctification, Received Justification, Received a New Heart, Receive the INDWELLING Spirit of God, Received Freedom FROM Sin.

Your REJECTION of What ENTAILS a CONVERSION is REJECTED.

Your REJECTION of the Lords CONVERSION IS completely Satisfactory TO Him.....BY YOUR TEACHING, AFTER Conversion a man MUST maintain 'OBEDIENCE' and "COOPERATION" to the Lord....IS REJECTED.

A MAN IS NOT EQUIPPED to MAINTAIN his OWN "CONVERSION"!!!

The Lord Himself FOREVER "MAINTAINS" a mans CONVERSION, and such Converted man, SHALL NEVER BE LOST or DEPARTED from The Lord....(in CONTRAST to what you teach that IS Corrupt, and REJECTED).

Yes, "born again" means "converted" - just as later rejecting Christ means "Apostasy".

As for the "maintenance" of salvation - that is up to US.
God gives us the grace to faithfully endure - but it is ultimately up to US to cooperate with that grace in order to faithfully endure. God doesn't do it FOR you - He gives you the tools . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's funny how you can't describe to me Jhn 7. I wonder why that is?

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

WHO said that I can't explain it??

He was talking about the Holy Spirit who had NOT yet been sent.
"Drinking" from this spiritual water is receiving the Holy Spirit. Being Baptized is the washing away of sin.

Interestingly, though - the text in RED is NOT a direct quote from the OT.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And numerous occasions you take them out of context, every single day.

And it's funny that you cannot tell me HOW I've taken them "out" of context.

Lie I said before - empty accusations and finger-pointing are NOT evidence, son . . .

No, not magical. God is not in contradiction. He doesn't give us Eph 1:13-14 or Rom 8:33-39 just to change His mind in a split second when were disobedient. The blood of Christ is not flimsy, it is STRONG.

As I educated your friend Taken - God gives us the grace to faithfully endure - but it is ultimately up to US to cooperate with that grace in order to faithfully endure. God doesn't do it FOR you - He gives you the tools. He NEVER forsakes US - it is WE who sometimes forsake HIM.

Show you how? BOL, that's what spiritual blindness is. I've showed you multiple times, but to you what I say is not the truth. There's only so much I can do because God is the one that wakes people up.

And that's just another lie.

You haven't "shown" me anything. You keep saying that I've taken Scripture "out" of context - but you have failed to show me HOW.

I'll make it EASY on you. I'll give you TWO passages that prove OSAS wrong.
It is up to YOU to show me HOW I am taking these "out" of context . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Justification is a process

And nowhere in Heb 11 is the word "justification" found. In fact, it's only mentioned four times in the NT, and all these passages are OSAS.

Act 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Rom 5:16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

WHO said that I can't explain it??

He was talking about the Holy Spirit who had NOT yet been sent.
"Drinking" from this spiritual water is receiving the Holy Spirit. Being Baptized is the washing away of sin.

And being baptized is through the Holy Spirit by believing and confessing only, not H2O. Only the blood of Jesus can wash away sin. BOL, you're not sacrificing goats for sin in your backyard are you?

Rev 7:14 "Sir," I answered, "you know." So he replied, "These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 12:11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

 

[epostle1]

And nowhere in Heb 11 is the word "justification" found. In fact, it's only mentioned four times in the NT, and all these passages are OSAS.

Use quotes instead of making things up. I said:
Heb. 11:6
But this is just the beginning of the process leading toward justification. Faith alone does not justify a person. Justification is only achieved by faith and works, as we see below. Also, this gratuitous gift of faith from God also includes the grace of hope and love the moment the person is justified.
"...leading toward..." is a foreign concept to a dichotomous mind set. Worse, it's foreign to a Pharisaical nit picker. I know the word "justification" is not in Heb.11:6, because it doesn't have to be. What I said went over your head like a Boeing 747; you missed the point. You jump to conclusions because you don't know when to read scripture with a microscope or a telescope.

Act 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

This is no guarantee that everyone who believes will remain justified.

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

This is no guarantee that everyone will remain justified.

Rom 5:16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

This is no guarantee that everyone who believes will remain justified.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

This is no guarantee that everyone who believes will remain justified.

You have been throwing scripture around for several weeks. I suggest you go back over all your posts and find what you think is an iron clad argument. From what I've seen so far, you haven't got one.
Defending the truth is much easier than defending a lie.

And being baptized is through the Holy Spirit by believing and confessing only, not H2O. Only the blood of Jesus can wash away sin. BOL, you're not sacrificing goats for sin in your backyard are you?

What does that have to do with the heresy of OSAS?

Rev 7:14 "Sir," I answered, "you know." So he replied, "These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

BECAUSE THEY PHYSICALLY DIED ON EARTH

Rev 12:11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

BECAUSE THEY PHYSICALLY DIED ON EARTH
How many times have I told you we are guaranteed salvation if we persevere and DIE! NOT BEFORE!!!
What a sucker for punishment. That's forum masochism IMO.