Modern Day Tongue Speakers Roll Call Poll

[JesusIsFaithful]

Dreams are not a spiritual gift, so your comparison is flawed. Tongues are a spiritual gift.

Never said that dreams was a spiritual gift, Stranger. Not every dream comes from the Lord for why we are to prove all things by the scripture.

Your experience with 'cussing' is yours alone and cannot be transferred to Bible interpretation.

My hearing God speaking to me has to be proven by the scripture and that is the point for every believer in discerning a supernatural encounter.

Your experience doesn't prove ones experience who has the gift of tongues.

That experience has nothing to do with the experience with tongues; that reference was about why we are to prove every supernatural encounter by the scriptures.

That tongues can be for just the believer is proved in Scripture. (1 Cor. 14:4) "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself..." And there is nothing wrong with that. Where does Scripture say there is?

Scripture does say plainly, "Wherefore brethren, ...forbid not to speak with tongues."

Stranger

As you read 1 Corinthians 14th chapter from the beginning....

Paul begins exhorting believers to desire spiritual gifts, but to exhort them to seek after the gift of prophesy, and began explaining why by comparing the gift of tongues with the gift of prophesy by showing why tongues is not a stand alone gift for why prophesy is better because it needs no interpretation.

So Paul concludes why believers zealous for spiritual gifts should seek the gift of prophesy over tongues.

Next, Paul is explaining why he was demoting tongues as the gift to seek after by explaining the necessity for that tongue to be interpreted in order for that tongue to edify the assembly.

Having said that in verse 12, Paul explains the proper use of tongues in that the tongue speakers are to pray that someone else may interpret that tongue so that the tongue speaker may understand it and be fruitful to the tongue speaker too.

So his closing to verse 14, is just re enforcing why prophesy is the gift to seek after over the gifts of tongues because tongues is not a stand alone gift for why it needs to come with interpretation from another to benefit the tongue speaker and not just the assembly.

1 Corinthians 12:7-13 pretty much is Paul's premise for what tongues can only be used for. The breakdown is below.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Per Strong's Concordance;

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

"divers" was inserted from the Greek word "glwsswn" meaning "of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue."

The grouping of 3 Greek words in the blue in paralleling that verse runs as "genh glwsswn allw" with genh meaning "from ginomai - ginomai 1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):--born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock."

And the third Greek word "allw" meaning "a primary word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications):--more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise)."

It is the same as saying someone will get a different kind of tongues from another country than what he is normally familiar with for why interpretation of that foreign tongue will follow in the context of that verse 10 above.

 

[Stranger]

Never said that dreams was a spiritual gift, Stranger. Not every dream comes from the Lord for why we are to prove all things by the scripture.



My hearing God speaking to me has to be proven by the scripture and that is the point for every believer in discerning a supernatural encounter.



That experience has nothing to do with the experience with tongues; that reference was about why we are to prove every supernatural encounter by the scriptures.



As you read 1 Corinthians 14th chapter from the beginning....

Paul begins exhorting believers to desire spiritual gifts, but to exhort them to seek after the gift of prophesy, and began explaining why by comparing the gift of tongues with the gift of prophesy by showing why tongues is not a stand alone gift for why prophesy is better because it needs no interpretation.

So Paul concludes why believers zealous for spiritual gifts should seek the gift of prophesy over tongues.

Next, Paul is explaining why he was demoting tongues as the gift to seek after by explaining the necessity for that tongue to be interpreted in order for that tongue to edify the assembly.

Having said that in verse 12, Paul explains the proper use of tongues in that the tongue speakers are to pray that someone else may interpret that tongue so that the tongue speaker may understand it and be fruitful to the tongue speaker too.

So his closing to verse 14, is just re enforcing why prophesy is the gift to seek after over the gifts of tongues because tongues is not a stand alone gift for why it needs to come with interpretation from another to benefit the tongue speaker and not just the assembly.

1 Corinthians 12:7-13 pretty much is Paul's premise for what tongues can only be used for. The breakdown is below.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Per Strong's Concordance;

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

"divers" was inserted from the Greek word "glwsswn" meaning "of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue."

The grouping of 3 Greek words in the blue in paralleling that verse runs as "genh glwsswn allw" with genh meaning "from ginomai - ginomai 1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):--born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock."

And the third Greek word "allw" meaning "a primary word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications):--more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise)."

It is the same as saying someone will get a different kind of tongues from another country than what he is normally familiar with for why interpretation of that foreign tongue will follow in the context of that verse 10 above.

The point is your comparison is flawed.

Your personal experience does not interpret Scripture.

It doesn't matter if prophecy is a greater gift than tongues. The gift of tongues is still real and important to the believer who has it.

The interpretation is not needed for the one having the gift of tongues. It edifies them. Interpretation is for the assembly.

Your dancing with the Greek changes nothing I said.

Stranger

 

[Truth]

Well at the end of the 1st paragraph in the OP, I did say that I did not have God's gift of tongues and so that was why I was not voting in the poll for modern day tongue speakers. So don't feel bad when there is no place for you to vote, because it is a poll for modern day tongue speakers.

I do thank you for sharing. It is important for others to discern by...

But since you did speak of "an encounter with the Lord" in the Assembly of God, what do you mean by that? Explain what had happened at that encounter. Did you fall backward or fell down or felt something?

Was that when you were saved or had you believed in Him long before that encounter when you had felt what you had believed was the Holy Spirit coming over you, but didn't bring tongues? Some clarification is needed, brother. Just wondering how you experience relates to the OP if at all.

I was not a believer, I was an Addict to, too many things!!!

About three weeks before I had my encounter with our Savior, I was all tied up in great depression, all I wanted to do was end it! And then a person I new of, but didn't rely know confronted me and asked me if they could pray for me, well I have always been a person that tried to be kind to other's, So I accepted the offer. Well low and behold it wasn't 10 minuets my depression went away! So after that another, a lady invited me to a bible study so being interested I went, that was a joke, they were some what of the wealthy crowd! But the same lady and her husband asked me to go to Church with them, so I went, Now at the Church, the Pastor was preaching, but It was about end time nuclear possibility's and after a while I was more interested in getting home and getting HIGH!!
Please I had no clue what went on in Churches, So I stayed as to finish to ordeal, trying to be Polite, AND Then He Made An Alter Call!!! I didn't know what that was at the time OK, But I stood up, Made my way to the outside isle and walked up to the Pulpit and stood right next to the Pastor! I can only express what it was like, it was if I was on a conveyor belt, I do not remember my feet ever stepping, one in front of the other, all the way to the Pulpit. So the Pastor had to instruct me to step down to the front of the Sanctuary, and then asked me if I wanted to except Jesus as my Savior, and I did! I do not even recall making the decision to stand up, let alone go forward. My life has not been the same sense that day. Latter I found out that the person that prayed for me in the first part of this statement, Said that God had asked that they should intercede and pray for me, I think God knew my intentions, So He Saved me to get Me Saved!

I hope this is enough! TO GOD AND SAVIOR BE ALL GLORY-ANM

 

[Truth]

Agree with you Truth. God help those who propagate such erroneous hurtful teaching. I have many friends who speak in tongues ( as do I ) and just as many friends who do not speak in tongues. Neither group are more saved than the other...and neither group are more spiritual than the other.
If I was in the congregation in that meeting or meetings where you heard that taught...I would have jumped up out of my seat and rebuked him for such wrong teaching!! ( I have been known to 'speak up' in services. )
That is one reason that I no longer attend mans "church" most of them are on ego trips.
I really hope that some mature soul came along side you at that time in your life and encouraged your heart.
For God does not look at how good or pure our doctrine is, God always looks at the intent of our heart.

Bless you...Helen

( I have not forgotten your wife Cheryl...I trust her faith is still strong x )

THANK YOU, and yes she is still an OX in Faith

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You presume a lot ...who said " without interpretation"? YOU!!

NO!!

What is the matter with you...you are just raving now.
I said just the very opposite to @Truth ....

Anyone reading my post...( except you) can see I was and always will be in opposition to that line of thinking.

I know that you have said that and you seem to believe that, but there were times you had posted differently as opposing what you had just posted.

Did you not infer a separation of spirituality here in this post from another thread?

Again, a reminder that God has put into our own hands the means of inner strengthening in the Lord= "Giving thanks" at all times for all things.
The speaker said that when it says here above "be not drunk with natural wine but we filled with the Spirit ( wine from above) he said the "be filled with the Spirit " in the original language shows a constant action...and reads "be being filled"....ie a continual ...not a one-off.
I guess much like we are to drink daily of the Living Water of Life.
And we don't end up like the foolish virgins where they allowed the oil to run out. ( again, oil in scripture being a type of the Holy Spirit )

So the foolish virgins are the ones not seeking to be filled again thus allowing the oil to run out.

And when you said this below later on in that same thread:

Yes we have His Spirit. But I can't quote agree with your statement above in blue. ? Don't you ever find in your walk with God a dryness tries to settle over us..and we 'feel' disconnected and dry as a bone spiritually?

You may not, but my walk seem to go through spiritual patches ...mountain tops and valleys ...God does not always lead us on the flat...

At my dry times I have to pull away...and praise, worship and thanks the Lord for all things until my weary souls begins to raise again .

This old world can cause the oil so settle at the bottom...and even in testing time to even leak our ( burn out, like the foolish virgins...) The wise kept their lamps full of oil. And the place to go is the Holy Spirit...when we 'get quiet' with Him, he 'restores our soul' and gives us times of refreshing.

Is that place to go is the Holy Spirit also done by tongues for private use or not?

And when you think about it, there was a post of you defending tongues for private use and you did not care what other believers say about it because of how it has "what" in relation to God? You remember that? I can keep searching, but you ought to know how you believe about your tongues in how you value it personally in your relationship with God.

I know I have said things I do not mean to say, and I will own up to it, but then, by His help, I shall either make clarification or amend my statement in order to be a better witness.

So can you see why I can read what you had posted @Truth and yet those other posts does openly oppose what you had posted @Truth ? I can believe that you meant everything you had posted, but I do not necessarily see you actually meaning what you had posted @Truth .

I love you as my sister. But I cannot gloss over how you guys as tongue speakers, separate yourself by your testimonies and you don't see it.

 

[Helen]

Whatever you say...

....you seem to have 'the gift of interpreting' what people mean when they post!!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The point is your comparison is flawed.

Only because you want it to be.

Your personal experience does not interpret Scripture.

Still missing the point. Scripture are used to discern personal experiences to see if they are of God or not. If what you had learned or assumed runs against anything in scripture and not the selected taken out of context scripture because you want it to be of God, then that is how you discern your personal experience by the scripture.

It doesn't matter if prophecy is a greater gift than tongues. The gift of tongues is still real and important to the believer who has it.

It matters when Paul was explaining why prophesy was better gift than tongues because it is not a stand alone gift and thus in need of interpretation whereas prophesy does not. That means tongues was never meant as a stand alone gift.

The interpretation is not needed for the one having the gift of tongues. It edifies them. Interpretation is for the assembly.

Paul was explaining why prophesy was better by pointing out how tongues by itself does not edify any one else per the assembly; and yet for that person to be speaking in tongues as in mysteries, it is because he is doing so in the assembly for why by itself, it is a mystery.

Then Paul pointed out for himself as a tongue speaker and for how others that use that gift of tongues, in how they were to pray that somebody else would interpret that tongue so that Paul would understand it and that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker. Now if Paul says he does not understand it until somebody else interprets that tongue, then how can he really mean that in verse 2 that he edifies himself? He can't. Paul's point in verse 2 was to point out that although God's gift of tongues in that tongue speakers could edify himself but it is still mysteries, because that is why prophesy is better when that tongue needs interpretation.

Your dancing with the Greek changes nothing I said.

Stranger

If you consider it a dance, then you pretty much allowing scripture to run against scripture. Paul sets the premise for how the manifestations of the gifts would be used in the assembly in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter for how you are to read verse 2 in the 14th chapter, because Paul said no tongue speaker can say they do not need the body of Christ as if they can do tongues for private use.

So you can zoom in on verse 2 all you want like so many tongue speakers do, but you do so at the expense where Paul prayed that another interpret that tongue being manifested in him so he may understand it for that tongue to be fruitful and he gave the bottom line on what tongues were for in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 and that it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

And there is a forbidding of speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:28. Go figure when it comes without interpretation. So there is a forbidding of tongues when it is not done decently nor in order.

And there is a supernatural tongue in the world that is just vain & profane babbling nonsense as confirmed in Isaiah 8:19. This was prophesied to happen in the latter days in droves per 1 timothy 4:1-2.

So you best go before that throne of grace, brother, because you are ignoring scripture reproving tongues for private use.

In any Bible in John 16:13, Jesus testified that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears and so there is no way He can use God's gift of tongues for His own use in uttering His own intercessions in spite of the errant contrary translation of most modern Bibles that Romans 8:26 implies sounds are being uttered but the KJV testifies plainly & correctly as aligning with John 16:13 that even His groanings CANNOT be uttered hence no sound at all.

So you go before that throne of grace and pray, brother Stranger. The gifts of tongues were never meant for private use when it has been prophesied to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

So try not to take verse 2 in dancing around the truths in other parts of scripture when the other parts of scripture is proving you are reading verse 2 out of context for the purpose of why Paul was comparing tongues by itself against prophesy for why prophesy is the better gift to seek.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I was not a believer, I was an Addict to, too many things!!!

About three weeks before I had my encounter with our Savior, I was all tied up in great depression, all I wanted to do was end it! And then a person I new of, but didn't rely know confronted me and asked me if they could pray for me, well I have always been a person that tried to be kind to other's, So I accepted the offer. Well low and behold it wasn't 10 minuets my depression went away! So after that another, a lady invited me to a bible study so being interested I went, that was a joke, they were some what of the wealthy crowd! But the same lady and her husband asked me to go to Church with them, so I went, Now at the Church, the Pastor was preaching, but It was about end time nuclear possibility's and after a while I was more interested in getting home and getting HIGH!!
Please I had no clue what went on in Churches, So I stayed as to finish to ordeal, trying to be Polite, AND Then He Made An Alter Call!!! I didn't know what that was at the time OK, But I stood up, Made my way to the outside isle and walked up to the Pulpit and stood right next to the Pastor! I can only express what it was like, it was if I was on a conveyor belt, I do not remember my feet ever stepping, one in front of the other, all the way to the Pulpit. So the Pastor had to instruct me to step down to the front of the Sanctuary, and then asked me if I wanted to except Jesus as my Savior, and I did! I do not even recall making the decision to stand up, let alone go forward. My life has not been the same sense that day. Latter I found out that the person that prayed for me in the first part of this statement, Said that God had asked that they should intercede and pray for me, I think God knew my intentions, So He Saved me to get Me Saved!

I hope this is enough! TO GOD AND SAVIOR BE ALL GLORY-ANM

Sounds good. Amen.

Not like I am saying nobody can be saved in the Assembly of God churches or whatever, but it is the the focus on receiving the Holy Spirit after a sign apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel that scripture demands to not believe and to discern the spirits by as not of the Lord at all.

This phenomenon happens in other denominations and not just Pentecostals and Charismatics; it can happen in Catholic and other Protestant churches.

So I am glad that the Lord directed your foot steps into receiving His Son by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel when you had gotten saved.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Whatever you say...

....you seem to have 'the gift of interpreting' what people mean when they post!!

I did ask a question, sister. Feel free to answer. But I did give cause for why I had posted the way I had done to you, have I not?

 

[Truth]

Sounds good. Amen.

Not like I am saying nobody can be saved in the Assembly of God churches or whatever, but it is the the focus on receiving the Holy Spirit after a sign apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel that scripture demands to not believe and to discern the spirits by as not of the Lord at all.

This phenomenon happens in other denominations and not just Pentecostals and Charismatics; it can happen in Catholic and other Protestant churches.

So I am glad that the Lord directed your foot steps into receiving His Son by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel when you had gotten saved.

One can be Saved in a Chariot in the Gaza Desert, According to the Scripture's. LOL
I wasn't giving any Church credit for Salvation, Credit goes to the Lord, any time any where, Right! I was just truly Blessed to meet Him there!

 

[Stranger]

Only because you want it to be.



Still missing the point. Scripture are used to discern personal experiences to see if they are of God or not. If what you had learned or assumed runs against anything in scripture and not the selected taken out of context scripture because you want it to be of God, then that is how you discern your personal experience by the scripture.



It matters when Paul was explaining why prophesy was better gift than tongues because it is not a stand alone gift and thus in need of interpretation whereas prophesy does not. That means tongues was never meant as a stand alone gift.



Paul was explaining why prophesy was better by pointing out how tongues by itself does not edify any one else per the assembly; and yet for that person to be speaking in tongues as in mysteries, it is because he is doing so in the assembly for why by itself, it is a mystery.

Then Paul pointed out for himself as a tongue speaker and for how others that use that gift of tongues, in how they were to pray that somebody else would interpret that tongue so that Paul would understand it and that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker. Now if Paul says he does not understand it until somebody else interprets that tongue, then how can he really mean that in verse 2 that he edifies himself? He can't. Paul's point in verse 2 was to point out that although God's gift of tongues in that tongue speakers could edify himself but it is still mysteries, because that is why prophesy is better when that tongue needs interpretation.



If you consider it a dance, then you pretty much allowing scripture to run against scripture. Paul sets the premise for how the manifestations of the gifts would be used in the assembly in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter for how you are to read verse 2 in the 14th chapter, because Paul said no tongue speaker can say they do not need the body of Christ as if they can do tongues for private use.

So you can zoom in on verse 2 all you want like so many tongue speakers do, but you do so at the expense where Paul prayed that another interpret that tongue being manifested in him so he may understand it for that tongue to be fruitful and he gave the bottom line on what tongues were for in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 and that it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

And there is a forbidding of speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:28. Go figure when it comes without interpretation. So there is a forbidding of tongues when it is not done decently nor in order.

And there is a supernatural tongue in the world that is just vain & profane babbling nonsense as confirmed in Isaiah 8:19. This was prophesied to happen in the latter days in droves per 1 timothy 4:1-2.

So you best go before that throne of grace, brother, because you are ignoring scripture reproving tongues for private use.

In any Bible in John 16:13, Jesus testified that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears and so there is no way He can use God's gift of tongues for His own use in uttering His own intercessions in spite of the errant contrary translation of most modern Bibles that Romans 8:26 implies sounds are being uttered but the KJV testifies plainly & correctly as aligning with John 16:13 that even His groanings CANNOT be uttered hence no sound at all.

So you go before that throne of grace and pray, brother Stranger. The gifts of tongues were never meant for private use when it has been prophesied to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

So try not to take verse 2 in dancing around the truths in other parts of scripture when the other parts of scripture is proving you are reading verse 2 out of context for the purpose of why Paul was comparing tongues by itself against prophesy for why prophesy is the better gift to seek.

You said a whole lot but have proved nothing. The verse you want to use to prohibit speaking in tongues, (1 Cor. 14:28), proves just the opposite. "But if there be no interpreter , let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." Did you see that? Let him speak to himself and God. In other words, if there is no interpreter in the Church then the one speaking in tongues confines it to himself and to God. No need for an interpreter there.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful All of this stuff you posted is why I am not responding to you fully on every point again. You are repeating yourself without responding to what I said. You have already decided and nothing I can say will convince to really seriously consider that I might be correct and/or to talk to the Lord about it as I have suggested. The Bible can be misused as you yourself have shown. Anyone, including yourself, can be deluded, can be wrong. Only God can help you with that IF you would allow it.

I responded here not to engage you again on this thread but primarily for our dear Sister @Mayflower and any others who might not understand the gift that they have or could have. I wanted to be certain that they could receive whatever it is that God wants to give them in spite your words that try to box God in. Logic is useful but it does not rule and is not the way to all of God's truth. The Way we are to travel is by faith and the quickening of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise our studies of the scripture remain a weariness of the flesh.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You said a whole lot but have proved nothing.

Only God can cause the increase. Him making full proof of the ministry is by using scripture to expose the works of darkness by.

The verse you want to use to prohibit speaking in tongues, (1 Cor. 14:28), proves just the opposite. "But if there be no interpreter , let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." Did you see that? Let him speak to himself and God. In other words, if there is no interpreter in the Church then the one speaking in tongues confines it to himself and to God. No need for an interpreter there.

Apparently you need to see how to read 1 Corinthians 14th chapter by reading the premise as set by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter.

Stranger

Try not to be a stranger by going to this link for that Bible study.

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...1-corinthians-14th-chapter.26459/#post-428670

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful All of this stuff you posted is why I am not responding to you fully on every point again. You are repeating yourself without responding to what I said.

I am responding to what you had said. You just don't like what I had said because it goes against what you are saying. We are to prove everything by the scripture and you want everybody to take you at your word as gospel. Nope. No can do.

You have already decided and nothing I can say will convince to really seriously consider that I might be correct and/or to talk to the Lord about it as I have suggested. The Bible can be misused as you yourself have shown. Anyone, including yourself, can be deluded, can be wrong. Only God can help you with that IF you would allow it.

I responded here not to engage you again on this thread but primarily for our dear Sister @Mayflower and any others who might not understand the gift that they have or could have. I wanted to be certain that they could receive whatever it is that God wants to give them in spite your words that try to box God in. Logic is useful but it does not rule and is not the way to all of God's truth. The Way we are to travel is by faith and the quickening of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise our studies of the scripture remain a weariness of the flesh.

Problem is you let God out of the box to dwell outside of us to be received again and again and again as if we are not a new creature in Christ unable to hold that promise of the Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So this other calling for already saved believers to seek after in receiving the Holy Spirit again and again and again is in hypocrisy when He is already in you as promised and that other calling is after the rudiments in the world in how they receive spirits by seeing that reception.

The only way you can test the spirits in knowing the real Holy Spirit is by Him dwelling in you since you had come to & believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. That is the tradition taught of us and to disregard that tradition is to fall away from that steadfastness.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

I can only hope that God is peradventuring to recover you from that snare of the devil, but if not with you, maybe with others.

 

[Stranger]

Only God can cause the increase. Him making full proof of the ministry is by using scripture to expose the works of darkness by.



Apparently you need to see how to read 1 Corinthians 14th chapter by reading the premise as set by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter.



Try not to be a stranger by going to this link for that Bible study.

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...1-corinthians-14th-chapter.26459/#post-428670

So, you want to blame God for your inability to interpret the Scripture?

I have read it. It changes nothing I have said, and does not prove what you are trying to make it say.

I am not interested in 'links'.

Stranger

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

So, you want to blame God for your inability to interpret the Scripture?

No. I blame you for seeking to please tongue speakers for private use rather than pleasing God. You can't even see how they are making themselves as the elite by their own testimonies. Wake up. Go to that thread at the link provided below and see Willie T's response in that thread speaking of having something we do not have by wishing we would have it.

I have read it. It changes nothing I have said, and does not prove what you are trying to make it say.

If you keep reading verse 2 & 4 as the premise for reading chapters 12 thru 14 as tongue speakers would lead you to believe, then you do so at great expense to chapter 12.

I am not interested in 'links'.

Stranger

It was just to a thread in Bible Study forum of this forum. Chapter 12 serves as the premise for how you are to read and understand the hard sayings of Paul in chapter 14. Scripture is the only way to prove if someone is taking scripture out of context which they are doing by those 2 verses.

If you want to maintain your stance of proving everything by the scripture with Him then check that thread and maybe you can point out where I am wrong at and why, but remember, scripture cannot go against scripture as no lie can be of the truth.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/how-to-understand-1-corinthians-14th-chapter.26459/

Below are the scriptures that supports what I have shared above for why you need to go to that thread at that link in the Bible Study section of this forum.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[amadeus]

We are to prove everything by the scripture and you want everybody to take you at your word as gospel. Nope. No can do.

It really is not final according to the man who know the written scriptures the best and draws the most logically conclusions from them. That is according to the wisdom and knowledge of men. It is not the one with the brain equivalent to an Einstein that will rise to the top with the Lord... God is no respecter of persons and His judgment on each of us is fair according to what He knows has been available to each one of us. This includes IQ and education and time and the lack thereof for each one of these and more. Do we really suppose that the apostle Paul was closer to God than any one of us? That man had an education in the scriptures long before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, but before that meeting for what did he use his education, his knowledge of the scriptures? To do the work of the adversaries of God and His Son presuming that he was on the Lord's side. Again I am really not trying convince you that my doctrine or my way of serving God is right although you may think that that is my purpose. What does God want from each of us? Who is leading each of us? Who should be leading each of us?

Problem is you let God out of the box to dwell outside of us to be received again and again and again as if we are not a new creature in Christ unable to hold that promise of the Spirit.

One day maybe, hopefully, you will be interested in really discussing what I believe instead of what you have decided that I believe.
As I see God is in me [not outside], but so also is the old man who once ruled me. That is the new man versus the old man. This is why James speaks of double mindedness. It is why John the Baptist says this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

You speak of again and again, but what really should be happening is that each of us is repenting those things uncovered or discovered anew within us of which we were unaware previously. That is what should be but too often what is happening is we are mimicking the children of Israel who daily needed to go back to the outer court and have the priest make the sacrifice again and again for the same old sins repeated again and again. We have more than they had so that should not be how it is, but nonetheless... we keep wanting to put Jesus back on the cross to suffer again for that he has already suffered.

You my friend are hung up on speaking in tongues and what it is and what it is not. Whatever it is, God most certainly knows. Anyone who is really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God will be filled properly... without regard to your foolish attempts to help God.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

I agree with the verses cited above. What is it that will cause the Holy Spirit to leave us, that will cause the containers to break, for us to lose our place with God? The same thing that caused Adam and Eve to lose what they had: following our own ways for our own purposes instead of yielding ourselves to God and following Him wherever He leads. If we decided yesterday where He is leading us today and go ahead rush right in according to yesterday's decision instead of waiting on Him today, it is a pit into which we will be falling of our own choosing.

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So this other calling for already saved believers to seek after in receiving the Holy Spirit again and again and again is in hypocrisy when He is already in you as promised and that other calling is after the rudiments in the world in how they receive spirits by seeing that reception.

I already responded to this thing of "again and again". That which often is, is not what should be, but it still is until we have surrendered everything to Him. Who has done it? You? Me?

The only way you can test the spirits in knowing the real Holy Spirit is by Him dwelling in you since you had come to & believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. That is the tradition taught of us and to disregard that tradition is to fall away from that steadfastness.

The one who tests is the one who knows. It is not the old man in us that knows although he thinks he does but he is deceived. The answer for us lies at the bottom or in that lowest room. If you never go there the deception, the delusion, will continue.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

I can only hope that God is peradventuring to recover you from that snare of the devil, but if not with you, maybe with others.

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Yo Brother @Stranger

Read how you are compromising with the modern day tongue speakers for.... in this very thread.

Do we really suppose that the apostle Paul was closer to God than any one of us?

Nope, but you guys do by referring to another drink of the One Spirit by which you gained that tongue by as a sign of that receiving.

One day maybe, hopefully, you will be interested in really discussing what I believe instead of what you have decided that I believe.
As I see God is in me [not outside], but so also is the old man who once ruled me. That is the new man versus the old man. This is why James speaks of double mindedness. It is why John the Baptist says this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

If you really believe He is in you since your salvation, then you cannot receive Him again supernaturally, and so you oppose yourself there.

You speak of again and again, but what really should be happening is that each of us is repenting those things uncovered or discovered anew within us of which we were unaware previously. That is what should be but too often what is happening is we are mimicking the children of Israel who daily needed to go back to the outer court and have the priest make the sacrifice again and again for the same old sins repeated again and again. We have more than they had so that should not be how it is, but nonetheless... we keep wanting to put Jesus back on the cross to suffer again for that he has already suffered.

How many christians out there that can testify to being led to repentance by the scripture rather than by falling down by a spirit coming over them? So there is no need for that and no one having fallen down has said anything in testifying to a repentance other than vouching & thus promoting that one can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign. That's hardly repentance for how you are applying it to mean in uncovering within.

You my friend are hung up on speaking in tongues and what it is and what it is not. Whatever it is, God most certainly knows. Anyone who is really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God will be filled properly... without regard to your foolish attempts to help God.

What do you call believers helping other believers so that they too may know the baptism with the Holy Ghost by prompting them to seek to receive Him again apart from salvation by that sign of tongues? How can you not see them as helping God?

I agree with the verses cited above. What is it that will cause the Holy Spirit to leave us, that will cause the containers to break, for us to lose our place with God? The same thing that caused Adam and Eve to lose what they had: following our own ways for our own purposes instead of yielding ourselves to God and following Him wherever He leads. If we decided yesterday where He is leading us today and go ahead rush right in according to yesterday's decision instead of waiting on Him today, it is a pit into which we will be falling of our own choosing.

You are a new creature in Christ; it cannot break nor leak. You can defile the Temple of God, but you cannot cause the Holy Spirit to leak as in to leave your body. That is why we are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us, because He will never leave us.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I already responded to this thing of "again and again". That which often is, is not what should be, but it still is until we have surrendered everything to Him. Who has done it? You? Me?

So by your promotion of surrendering everything to Him on a continual basis is how you are helping God for how believers are to be filled, are you not?

The one who tests is the one who knows. It is not the old man in us that knows although he thinks he does but he is deceived. The answer for us lies at the bottom or in that lowest room. If you never go there the deception, the delusion, will continue.

The strong delusion that God will permit is for when they believe the lie by departing from the tradition taught of us.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

You believe a believer can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign of tongues which 1 Corinthians 14:22 specifically states that tongues is not to serve as a sign towards the already saved believers for anything.

See @Stranger ? That is why that tongue for private use cannot be of Him at all. It is they that has departed from us as prophesied in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 . See Isaiah 8:19 for why that supernatural tongue is not coming with interpretation.

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful
You've done it again. You are still making your declarations instead of discussing anything. Sorry but that is what you are doing. You keep mentioning to me things I have never discussed or mentioned as if I had. You put words in my mouth and then expect me to respond...

 

[Stranger]

No. I blame you for seeking to please tongue speakers for private use rather than pleasing God. You can't even see how they are making themselves as the elite by their own testimonies. Wake up. Go to that thread at the link provided below and see Willie T's response in that thread speaking of having something we do not have by wishing we would have it.



If you keep reading verse 2 & 4 as the premise for reading chapters 12 thru 14 as tongue speakers would lead you to believe, then you do so at great expense to chapter 12.



It was just to a thread in Bible Study forum of this forum. Chapter 12 serves as the premise for how you are to read and understand the hard sayings of Paul in chapter 14. Scripture is the only way to prove if someone is taking scripture out of context which they are doing by those 2 verses.

If you want to maintain your stance of proving everything by the scripture with Him then check that thread and maybe you can point out where I am wrong at and why, but remember, scripture cannot go against scripture as no lie can be of the truth.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/how-to-understand-1-corinthians-14th-chapter.26459/

Below are the scriptures that supports what I have shared above for why you need to go to that thread at that link in the Bible Study section of this forum.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Again, none of the verses you give say what you are trying to make them say.

Is there a gift of tongues? Yes. Does it operate among the assembly of believers,? Yes. Is there a gift of an interpretation of tongues? Yes. If there is none in the assembly with the gift of interpretation, is the believer to exercise the gift of tongues in the assembly? No. Can the believer exercise the gift of tongues to himself wherever he is at. Yes.

That is the simple explanation of the gift of tongues given in (1Cor. 12-13).

Stranger