Are We Required to Tithe?

[GodsGrace]

I am a big believer in helping the needy. But why CAN'T the Church be involved? My goodness... I have a long discourse to give but I really don't want to go through all the scriptures that support it.

The PRIMARY purpose of the Church is to preach the gospel and provide orderly worship. But a strong secondary purpose is to help thr poor.

Do you not trust your church to do so? If not you should find another Church. Most Churches have Beneficiary Committees which judge the needs of its members. I would hope they consider all the evidence and make a wise decision.

Finally, yes I know 10% is burden. But once aagain, I looked to turn to simply being a giver. I thi k a tithe is a good place to start, but if you can't make it, at least commit to being a giver.

I feel that a church could help out but cannot sustain the poor.
It takes a lot of money to sustain and not only HELP.
Persons have a lot of expenses: rent/mortgage, food, clothing, electric, heating, taxes!, etc.

I DO feel that churches should help, I just don't know how much they help.
If I give someone 10$ however, I know they have $10 to spend.
I do feel that the govt helps more than the churches do.
This is my personal feeling...I have no statistics.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you read and studied Paul's teachings on Christian giving ("liberality")? They will clearly show that the principles of Christian giving are not the same as those for tithing under the Old Covenant. Indeed, Acts 15 will confirm that also.

While 10% may be applicable to some, 90% may be applicable to others. And when you closely examine the OT tithe, it was more like 30%.

The real issues are different:
1. Are NT principles being taught to Christians or not?
2. Are the churches disbursing the offerings according to biblical principles or not?
3. Should Christians even take advantage of tax deductions in this connection?

It was when I was reading and studying the book of Ruth that I learned of gleaning and the threashing floor, etc. Ruth teaches a lot about culture in her time.

Those threashing were to leave a part of the grain on the threshing floor so that the poor could pick it up and use it for food or they would have gone hungry.
Also owners of the fields were to leave the crop around the edges of the field for the same reason.

Was it 10%? No. This was not established.
So what is easier to do?
Just give 10% of all you receive, or give what you will?

I believe it's easier to just give 10% because it's a law that can be followed.

But Jesus asks of our heart decision...so it becomes more difficult. Does one give 10% or less or more? Now it's up to US and our willingness to give to make the decision.

And I'm happy for this...I don't think I could ever give 10% to ANY church because I'm never sure what they do with it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you read and studied Paul's teachings on Christian giving ("liberality")? They will clearly show that the principles of Christian giving are not the same as those for tithing under the Old Covenant. Indeed, Acts 15 will confirm that also.

While 10% may be applicable to some, 90% may be applicable to others. And when you closely examine the OT tithe, it was more like 30%.

The real issues are different:
1. Are NT principles being taught to Christians or not?
2. Are the churches disbursing the offerings according to biblical principles or not?
3. Should Christians even take advantage of tax deductions in this connection?

P.S.
As to your questions:

1. Hardly any. All I hear is Love,,,but hardly ever HOW to love.
2. ??? This is my problem.
3. No. Because it gives the government the opportunity to make laws regarding churches AND their income. Churches should be totally separate from govt.

 

[ScottA]

I don't really know what you mean.
Explain?

Every monetary law or debt was paid in full by Christ on the cross, in blood.

Now we give simply for the good of the saints.

 

[GodsGrace]

i seem recall a "support who feeds you spiritually" v but cannot find it, has it come out here yet? ty

Is this what you had in mind?

1 Corinthians 9:3-18
3My defense to those who examine me is this:
4Do we not have a right to eat and drink?
5Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
6Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?
7Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?
8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?
9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?
10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.
11If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
12If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.
13Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar?
14So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.
15But I have used none of these things. And I am not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case; for it would be better for me to die than have any man make my boast an empty one.
16For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
18What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

 

[GodsGrace]

If that is what you feel, then you are wrong. I have a wife of 48 years, two children and 11 grandchildren all of whom love us visiting them because they know that with us comes presents.

Actually, this is what I thought.

Presents is one thing.
Helping to support a family is another thing.
Some of us could help others. and some of us help our families.
It's difficult to do both...this was my only point.

 

[bbyrd009]

Is this what you had in mind?

1 Corinthians 3-18
3My defense to those who examine me is this:
4Do we not have a right to eat and drink?
5Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
6Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?
7Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?
8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?
9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?
10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.
11If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
12If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.
13Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar?
14So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.
15But I have used none of these things. And I am not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case; for it would be better for me to die than have any man make my boast an empty one.
16For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
18What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

i thought i remembered it being more direct.

As we can see here, Paul is doing another syntax thing in this passage where what we are reading is not what he is really saying imo; here he is rebutting an accusation that he is taking advantage of his office, right, and he is stating that while he has the right to do what he was being accused of anyway, he actually was doing exactly the opposite, iow providing a template for true pastors of the Gospel imo, as one cannot preach the Gospel if they are worried about offending tithers

 

[bbyrd009]

that is 1 Corinthians 9 right, but really 1Cor8 is the beginning for that passage i guess

7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk?

the answer, in this case, is "Paul, that's who!" as he makes, um, "clear" in v18, where he states what his reward is while still managing to not state what his reward really is, right, i mean pls tell me what his reward actually is in
What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

 

[Helen]

But too many it seems to me are embezzlers!

Haha!!.. Good one John ....and sadly very true!!

 

[bbyrd009]

And I'm happy for this...I don't think I could ever give 10% to ANY church because I'm never sure what they do with it.

but if you give it all away to the poor as we are directed then you will have treasure in heaven, right

 

[bbyrd009]

But too many it seems to me are embezzlers!

Haha!!.. Good one John ....and sadly very true!!

pastors do not assume office in a vacuum, usually at least, and you can't cheat an honest man, right. We reap what we sow, after all.

 

[GodsGrace]

but if you give it all away to the poor as we are directed then you will have treasure in heaven, right

LOL
I CAN'T give it all away!
Can you??

 

[GodsGrace]

pastors do not assume office in a vacuum, usually at least, and you can't cheat an honest man, right. We reap what we sow, after all.

I went to a church many years ago whose pastor was changed with stealing the intake. He worked on a salary basis and was given the parsonage as a nice home.
Guess it wasn't enough for him..and most persons there tithed.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't tithed.
Jews don't tithe either, they know they can't.
But Christian leaders have found it a good way to extract money from their congregations.
The Apostle Paul gives us a different way to give.
Read it and learn.

 

[bbyrd009]

LOL
I CAN'T give it all away!
Can you??

well, i know a guy who tried, but the funniest thing happens when you try to give everything away i guess. Anyway 20 years have gone by now and he is still trying with a vengeance to give it all away, every single bit, and i am not exaggerating even a little i don't think

 

[bbyrd009]

I went to a church many years ago whose pastor was changed with stealing the intake. He worked on a salary basis and was given the parsonage as a nice home.
Guess it wasn't enough for him..and most persons there tithed.

it didn't work then, and it doesn't work now, and it won't ever work imo, despite the principle being sound enough.
Imo find out where the temple is now, where is the building iow, and tithe to that!

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't tithed.
Jews don't tithe either, they know they can't.
But Christian leaders have found it a good way to extract money from their congregations.
The Apostle Paul gives us a different way to give.
Read it and learn.

What should we read??

 

[Helen]

LOL
I CAN'T give it all away!
Can you??

If any of us can do it..I am sure that he can...he is un-encumbered and on foot.
I am sure he does "live it " because he does believe it.

 

[GodsGrace]

If any of us can do it..I am sure that he can...he is un-encumbered and on foot.
I am sure he does "live it " because he does believe it.

Well, we have bills to pay and others to help out.
But I do feel like I should be giving more.

 

[Episkopos]

it didn't work then, and it doesn't work now, and it won't ever work imo, despite the principle being sound enough.
Imo find out where the temple is now, where is the building iow, and tithe to that!

We are the temple now. In Acts...the believers helped each other, sharing all they had with those in need. We need to INVEST in each other. We need to build each other up in the faith.