Jesus and Commands
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The ones I've met do not have a moral compass. But what do I really know of them. They are of the world, and for God to judge.
We're all meeting atheists. I find some are better than some christians I know. But some call themselves christians and then don't live it.
I guess we shouldn't concern ourselves with this...
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Those who call themselves Christians but don't live it are generally from a particular doctrine neither of us cares for. ;)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Well, you just said it. "visible sign of God's presence." That should mean that everything they teach is truth, but we know it's not. What did the desposyni wear? Humble clothes. More like the Catholic monks (St. Francis of Assisi), than the Catholic bishops. As far as buildings, the 1st century believers met in each other's homes for intimate fellowship. That intimacy is how people grew as they were accountable to one another. (The Amish in America do that.)
In your studies have you every studied Jesus' letters to the seven churches of Revelation 2 and 3?
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
There's a hierarchy in the CC and I don't particularly care for it because pride goes to mens heads no matter who they are...even christians. But the way they're set up, and due to the size of the church, it's needed.
I like the idea of houses, but I don't think it would work anymore.
I don't understand the logistics of it. There weren't so many Christians in the beginning.
OTOH, it would kind of weed out the "fake" Christians!
The Amish have kept to their lifestyle and I admire them for it.
I did read somewhere that the new generation is changing, allowing for technology.
As to Revelation. I've never studied Revelation and don't feel I know anything about it. I have read about the 7 churches, but that's about it. I'm told I'm missing a lot....
Since the Sabbath is always called the Sabbath is Scripture, the Lord's Day is definitely not the sabbath. And since Christians have overwhelmingly recognized the first day of the week as the Lord's Day since apostolic times, this is patently false.
Furthermore, Paul makes it crystal clear that the sabbath was A SHADOW and that the reality is Christ Himself. So why would Christ call a shadow the Lord's Day, since Jesus gave that term to John?
COLOSSIANS 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
It is Christ Himself who is the Christian's true Sabbath. We find our eternal rest in Him. But the 7th day sabbath was merely a shadow. Therefore the Lord's Day is the day on which Christ rose from the dead -- the first day of the week ("the morrow after the sabbath" applicable to the first fruits).
The Holy Spirit is very PRECISE in the terminology He uses. "The Day of the LORD" is consistently called "the Day of the LORD" in both the Old and New Testaments, and it is a terrible period of Divine judgments. See Joel 2 and other passages.
But Christians -- in the Spirit and led by the Spirit -- have always recognized "the Lord's Day" as the first day of the week -- the day on which the Lord was resurrected.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I did a lot of study on the 7 letters. Eyeopening stuff. It is interesting to note that Thyatira is the Catholic and Orthodox churches, there is a reference to Jezebel. Jezebel represents paganism. All paganism religions worshiped a mother goddess and her child. Like Venus and cupid, Ishtar and Tammuz, of which Ishtar was called "the queen of heaven." Sound familiar? To make Christianity popular when paganism was outlawed, and all their temples and priest paraphernalia were brought in, they also brought in the pagan goddess and child mystery religion of Babylon, superimposing Mary and Jesus into the imagery. And like the pagan religions, the goddess is loved more than the child.
Sardis is the age of the Reformation and all those dead doctrines excusing sin. But some, like John Wesley did not stoop so low. I believe he is one who it is written "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy."
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I believe that also; I'm just saying what it could have been meant as. You can't prove it meant the first day of the week, only as tradition says.
Have you looked at the churches of Philadelphia and Laodicea through the parallel with Eliakim and Shebna? (Is. 22)
Also as Scripture says (Acts 20:6,7):
6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Why did Paul wait for seven days? Because the disciples would come together UPON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK to "break bread" (the Lord's Supper). The Lord's Supper was observed on the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week. This is very significant. The Word of God was also preached on the first day of the week. And the gifts and offerings of the saints were also collected on the first day of the week (1 Cor 16:1,2).
Now please note what Justin Martyr wrote about the first day of the week in the 2nd century, by which time this practice was well established:
“On the day called Sunday” by Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165)
“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the overseer verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the overseer in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.
And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the overseer, who provides for the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.”
–Justin Martyr, 1 Apol. LXVII in Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, Vol. 1, Ed. A. Cleveland Coxe (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001), 186.
Yes, I know the above. Christmas was also celebrated in December to detract from pagan customs.
There are writings from early Christianity that refer to Mary and it does appear that she was much respected by the early fathers. I do believe that if it were that important and if HER role were so important, the writers of the N.T. would have at least mentioned it. I do have a problem with Mariology although I'm not so against HER as some protestants are...I AM against what is taught about her.
As to Wesley, I attended a Weslyan church for about 10 years or more.
They believed in the trichotomy of man and also that we retain the sin nature but that it comes under subjegation, to some extent, to the Holy Spirit.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
No I haven't. Go ahead...
At first glance I see doors that no man can shut, etc. What else?
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The Catholic Catechism, the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Baptist Confession of Faith and a great many others freely admit that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.
The overly simplistic "here let me make something up about what Seventh-day Adventist believe" -- solves nothing.
The entire chapter of Col 2 is of interest "for context".. for "accuracy" and to avoid "creative writing" and your "tiny-snip-half-verse" quote of it. Col 2 is about "not making stuff up" via the "commandments of men" as the text says.
Then maybe you might consider "The Bible" instead of sticking to "creative writing".
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I do stick to the Bible. You do too, though you don't understand what the authors mean. I do.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, I like holiness churches as a doctrine from scripture. Though I don't know what they believe about the sin nature. I go straight to the Bible on that.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
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