MATTHEW 3:11 BAPTISMS

[BreadOfLife]

That was John the Baptizer's baptism, exclusively for Israel.

But Christian baptism is different, in that repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ is followed by baptism (immersion) in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and the gift of the Holy Spirit is given BEFORE water baptism. Also Christian baptism is a command, not an option.

ACTS 10
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There are two things to be noted:
1. Speaking in tongues is not normative, but had a special significance here for the Jews.

2. "In the name of the Lord" is assumed to mean "In the name of Jesus" but can also mean "In the name of God" (since Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all "Lord").

There are 3000 people on the day of Pentecost who prove you WRONG:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And (then) you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They were baptized BEFORE being forgiven and BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit.
Also - NOWHERE in the New Testament doe it actually describe a Baptism - nor does it require full immersion.

 

[Enoch111]

They were baptized BEFORE being forgiven and BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit.

Not if you study all the other passages regarding baptism, which follows believing on Christ. See below.

Also - NOWHERE in the New Testament doe it actually describe a Baptism - nor does it require full immersion.

Evidently you have failed to study Romans 6. Also when Philip baptized the Ethiopian, here is what we find:

ACTS 8
THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED (ALONG WITH THE NECESSITY FOR BAPTISM)
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

THE GOSPEL IS RECEIVED AND THE MAN ASKS FOR BAPTISM
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

THE NECESSITY OF FAITH BEFORE BAPTISM IS PROCLAIMED
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest...

THE LORD JESUS IS CONFESSED WITH THE MOUTH* BEFORE BAPTISM
...And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

THE BELIEVER IS BAPTIZED BY FULL IMMERSION
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

THAT IS WHY THEY BOTH CAME UP OUT OF THE WATER
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

* In this connection Paul stated: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom 10:9-11)

So the man was saved BEFORE he was baptized, and the moment he was saved he received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Something else to note is that all the modern version EXPUNGED Acts 8:37 because it thoroughly refuted the Catholic and Orthodox teachings on baptismal regeneration.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not if you study all the other passages regarding baptism, which follows believing on Christ. See below.

Evidently you have failed to study Romans 6. Also when Philip baptized the Ethiopian, here is what we find:

ACTS 8
THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED (ALONG WITH THE NECESSITY FOR BAPTISM)
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

THE GOSPEL IS RECEIVED AND THE MAN ASKS FOR BAPTISM
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

THE NECESSITY OF FAITH BEFORE BAPTISM IS PROCLAIMED
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest...

THE LORD JESUS IS CONFESSED WITH THE MOUTH* BEFORE BAPTISM
...And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

THE BELIEVER IS BAPTIZED BY FULL IMMERSION
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

THAT IS WHY THEY BOTH CAME UP OUT OF THE WATER
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

* In this connection Paul stated: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom 10:9-11)

So the man was saved BEFORE he was baptized, and the moment he was saved he received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Something else to note is that all the modern version EXPUNGED Acts 8:37 because it thoroughly refuted the Catholic and Orthodox teachings on baptismal regeneration.

WRONG.
That's not "Faith" - that's BELIEF.

The DEMONS also believe that Jesus is the Son of God (James 2:19) - but they have no FAITH (belief + obedience).
That is the WHOLE point of James 2:19-26.

As for "going down" into the water and "coming up" out of the water - that doesn't imply full immersion.
That simply means they walked down to the river, stream or lake. Since when do you walk UP to a river, stream or lake?? River banks and lake shores are ALWAYS higher than the water itself.

Full immersion was the PREFERRED method of Baptism - but NOT the "only" method.
According to the 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles), Baptism was accomplished by full Immersion or pouring over the head THREE times. It even says that if "living" water is not available (river, stream, lake) - ANY water will do - warm or cold.

The Bible is SILENT on the particulars.
We get the procedure from TRADITION . . .

 

[LC627]

River banks and lake shores are ALWAYS higher than the water itself.

Lol, ok.

Baptism is a BURIAL, do you don't bury someone by sprinkling dirt on them. Baptism is a complete submersion.

And you can't use Acts 2:38 as a proof text because you believe in baptizing infants who can't have faith or repent.

 

[Enoch111]

Baptism is a BURIAL, do you don't bury someone by sprinkling dirt on them. Baptism is a complete submersion.

BOL was directed to Romans 6, but that would destroy his arguments.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Matthew 3:16 (KJV)
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus was the example

John's baptism was good

 

[Grams]

You know, people say we ought to be water baptised, because Jesus was. Why? Do you want to be a priest? And why was all the nation of Israel being baptised? Remember the covenant God made with the nation of Israel: “Ye shall be a kingdom of Priests” Exodus 19:6. That’s why water baptism belongs to the nation of Israel.

 

[Enoch111]

That’s why water baptism belongs to the nation of Israel.

Really? So you are telling people to ignore Christ's commandment for Christians to be baptized? Amazing!

 

[LC627]

BOL was directed to Romans 6, but that would destroy his arguments.

Sure would! John the Baptizer was not called John the Sprinkler!

 

[LC627]

Not if you study all the other passages regarding baptism, which follows believing on Christ. See below.

Evidently you have failed to study Romans 6. Also when Philip baptized the Ethiopian, here is what we find:

ACTS 8
THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED (ALONG WITH THE NECESSITY FOR BAPTISM)
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

THE GOSPEL IS RECEIVED AND THE MAN ASKS FOR BAPTISM
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

THE NECESSITY OF FAITH BEFORE BAPTISM IS PROCLAIMED
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest...

THE LORD JESUS IS CONFESSED WITH THE MOUTH* BEFORE BAPTISM
...And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

THE BELIEVER IS BAPTIZED BY FULL IMMERSION
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

THAT IS WHY THEY BOTH CAME UP OUT OF THE WATER
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

* In this connection Paul stated: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom 10:9-11)

So the man was saved BEFORE he was baptized, and the moment he was saved he received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Something else to note is that all the modern version EXPUNGED Acts 8:37 because it thoroughly refuted the Catholic and Orthodox teachings on baptismal regeneration.

Very well put together!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol, ok.
Baptism is a BURIAL, do you don't bury someone by sprinkling dirt on them. Baptism is a complete submersion.
And you can't use Acts 2:38 as a proof text because you believe in baptizing infants who can't have faith or repent.

WRONG.
Show me where Scripture tells us that Baptism is a PHYSICAL “burial” in water.

Show me ONE explicit example of a Baptism in the NT. You can’t because there ISN’T one. We only know HOW to baptize from Tradition. As a matter of fact – the prophecy about Baptism that we read in Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of SPRINKLING:

Ezekiel 36:25-27
I will SPRINKLE clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees(I) and be careful to keep my laws.

As for Acts 2:388 – YOU can’t see how children are involved because you are so used to cherry-picking verses to support your unbiblical doctrines. We Catholics read ALL Scripture in its proper context. In the very NEXT verse, Peter says:

Acts 2:39
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”

Paul Baptized the ENTIRE households of Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer.
Peter Baptized the ENTIRE household of Cornelius.

If you had ANY knowledge of 1st century culture – you would know that an “entire household” included parents, grandparents, children of ALL ages, servants, etc. The Early Church Fathers UNANIMOUSLY taught that this was a teaching handed down by the APOSTLES. Not ONE ECF taught contrary.

WHY is that??

 

[Doug]

I am not disagreeing with you, but could you explain in light of what you have said and quoted what these verses mean?

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-6

Off the top of my head I think Paul was calling for unity between the church members at the time which consisted of saints that believed the gospel of the kingdom and those that believed the gospel of grace...unity between Jew and Gentiles per say.
There is one body of believers, one faith and one baptism of the Holy Spirit upon belief in Christ.

 

[Doug]

The fire is the Holy Ghost. Reference Acts 2:3 for context.

Bible study Mary

Maybe the fire is the Holy Ghost as well but the verse in Acts says like fire

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Acts 2:3

 

[ScottA]

And YOUR point is that all you have to do is "believe" was squashed by James when he made this statement in the 2nd chapter of his Epistle:

James 2:19-26
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

In other words – “belief” is NOT enough.
TRUE Faith = Belief + Works (obedience)

Anything less is easy-believism . . .

This is an argument of semantics given to those who prefer the law, not of what saves.

Works is simply the evidence of faith in God. This is the message given by James. But the evidence is only evidence and nothing more. It is not the works that save. For without Christ we can do nothing, and therefore, it is not the fruit that bears fruit, but the Vine only.

 

[LC627]

WRONG.
Show me where Scripture tells us that Baptism is a PHYSICAL “burial” in water.

Show me ONE explicit example of a Baptism in the NT. You can’t because there ISN’T one. We only know HOW to baptize from Tradition. As a matter of fact – the prophecy about Baptism that we read in Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of SPRINKLING:

Ezekiel 36:25-27
I will SPRINKLE clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees(I) and be careful to keep my laws.

As for Acts 2:388 – YOU can’t see how children are involved because you are so used to cherry-picking verses to support your unbiblical doctrines. We Catholics read ALL Scripture in its proper context. In the very NEXT verse, Peter says:

Acts 2:39
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”

Paul Baptized the ENTIRE households of Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer.
Peter Baptized the ENTIRE household of Cornelius.

If you had ANY knowledge of 1st century culture – you would know that an “entire household” included parents, grandparents, children of ALL ages, servants, etc. The Early Church Fathers UNANIMOUSLY taught that this was a teaching handed down by the APOSTLES. Not ONE ECF taught contrary.

WHY is that??

Not every household has an infant in it. Why would the Holy Spirit lead Paul to write in Romans 6 that we are "buried" with Christ in baptism if it was just an act of sprinkling?

Also, please answer me this. Where in Scripture do we see John the Baptist baptizing infants?
He only baptized those who repented. No where is it recorded that those who confessed their sins to John brought their infants to be baptized also by him. Repentance / faith / belief come before baptism.



Ezekiel 36:25-27... Every time you see the word "water" you think it's baptism? God is the One Who sprinkles us - not some priest. Water is symbolic to the Word of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not every household has an infant in it. Why would the Holy Spirit lead Paul to write in Romans 6 that we are "buried" with Christ in baptism if it was just an act of sprinkling?

Also, please answer me this. Where in Scripture do we see John the Baptist baptizing infants?
He only baptized those who repented. No where is it recorded that those who confessed their sins to John brought their infants to be baptized also by him. Repentance / faith / belief come before baptism.

Ezekiel 36:25-27... Every time you see the word "water" you think it's baptism? God is the One Who sprinkles us - not some priest. Water is symbolic to the Word of God.

First of all - where does the bible say there WEREN'T children in these households. Peter said that the promise was for them AND their CHILDREN (Acts 2:39). WHY are the Early Church Father UNANIMOUS in stating that this was a teaching passed down by the Apostles themselves??

Secondly - we're NOT talking about John's Baptism - but the Baptism of CHRIST. This is the Baptism of regeneration - of REBIRTH (John 3:5).

Finally - as to Ezekiel's prophecy - it parallel's what Peter wrote about BAPTISM (1 Pet. 3:21).
Sorry - but you don't have a Scriptural or historical leg to stand on here . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is an argument of semantics given to those who prefer the law, not of what saves.

Works is simply the evidence of faith in God. This is the message given by James. But the evidence is only evidence and nothing more. It is not the works that save. For without Christ we can do nothing, and therefore, it is not the fruit that bears fruit, but the Vine only.

WRONG.

The SAME word that is used for "Belief" is used for "Faith".
James 2:24 states: You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
This could just as easily and honestly be rendered as: You see that a person is justified by works and not by BELIEF alone.

James's ENTIRE point was that TRUE faith is a perfect marriage of belief AND works - not just belief.

 

[ScottA]

WRONG.

The SAME word that is used for "Belief" is used for "Faith".
James 2:24 states: You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
This could just as easily and honestly be rendered as: You see that a person is justified by works and not by BELIEF alone.

James's ENTIRE point was that TRUE faith is a perfect marriage of belief AND works - not just belief.

Either your interpretation is wrong, or you are calling the rest of the scriptures lies.

The point is, you have not reconciled all the scriptures, and therefore have no business saying one way or the other. You are one who uses the word against the Word, the shame of which is against Christ. Do you not know that you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

"Woe unto you lawyers!"

 

[BreadOfLife]

Either your interpretation is wrong, or you are calling the rest of the scriptures lies.

The point is, you have not reconciled all the scriptures, and therefore have no business saying one way or the other. You are one who uses the word against the Word, the shame of which is against Christ. Do you not know that you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

"Woe unto you lawyers!"

WRONG again.
James uses the SAME root word for "believe" (v. 19) as he does "faith" (pisteuo) in verse 24. and in ALL the other verses in this chapter.

YOUR problem is your rejection of CONTEXT . . .

 

[Enoch111]

Why would the Holy Spirit lead Paul to write in Romans 6 that we are "buried" with Christ in baptism if it was just an act of sprinkling?

That would be just another attempt to negate Bible truth in favor of the doctrines of men. This will confirm what you are saying:

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism* into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)

*Strong's Concordance (908)
baptisma: (the result of) a dipping or sinking
Original Word: βάπτισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: baptisma
Phonetic Spelling: (bap'-tis-mah)
Definition: (the result of) a dipping or sinking
Usage: the rite or ceremony of baptism.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 908 báptisma – baptism (note the -ma suffix, emphasizing it is a result, i.e. of sincere repentance.)908 (báptisma) indicates submerging (dipping,immersion).

Christian baptism is by full immersion for the simple reason that the one being baptized is proclaiming through that act that he died with Christ and rose again with Him to walk in newness of life, as stated in Rom 6:4.