justbyfaith
Well-Known Member
Unless God meets their self-righteous demands, they will never bow to Him. Unless He agrees with them on everything, He is not worthy of their praise and worship.
You seem to be suggesting that you believe that those who believe in free will have never bowed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This is simply untrue. My own heart is bowed to Him, and for intellectual and biblical reasons, I believe in free will. It has nothing to do with a heart issue for me.
It is clear from reading much of this thread that Christians cannot agree on even how we are saved. Wouldn't god clear this up somehow? It seems to be the most important thing ever.
Hi Vince, this only goes to show that there is a very real devil who works to bring discord and confusion, especially among his enemies, who are obviously the church
Other Christians use other verses to say repentance is not required, or god saves everyone or ..... The reason that sincere Christians come to different conclusions about salvation is because the bible is not clear. An example is this thread.
The Bible is very clear; however even those who claim faith in Jesus can get it wrong because of a hardened heart or whatnot. They reject certain doctrines and favour others because it suits their fancy. God inspired the Bible to be written in such a way that these concepts could be explored and in such a way that those who have the truth might be victorious over those who do not when contending for the faith, see Luke 21:15 and Acts of the Apostles 6:10. The Bible alone is not the source of the truth; but Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit to those who would believe and obey Him (cf. Acts of the Apostles 5:32) and that He would guide them into all truth (John 16:13).
You like others here must ridicule and call other liars to maintain your theology in tact. Its not a gotcha question but a reasonable question based on the difference of opinion shown on this thread.
I'm in agreement with you Vince; and if I were not already radically saved, things like this would deter me from the faith. Christians are supposed to represent Christ; and some who claim to have faith represent Him in rather a lousy manner.
By their fruits you will know them.
Even as Paul called out Hymenaeus and Alexander, I think I should call out @Preacher4Truth on his bearing of bad fruit. I can mention it here and everyone will say, Amen, I see that, except for @Preacher4Truth himself; and a few of his cohorts may try to defend his honour since they are of the same doctrine and they would lose some kind of power if he is discredited. Nevertheless he is already discredited; I do not even have to say a word: his bad fruit is evident to all except the one who is spiritually blind to his own sin. But I say these things for his sake, in the hopes that he might see the truth and repent of his iniquity.
But you are here to sow discord. Not once have you actually wanted to learn anything new; you are perfectly content sitting there feeling self-justified and poking fun at those who refuse to join in your self back-patting.
I would mention that having a hyper-critical spirit is a sign of bearing bad fruit; but unfortunately, I am becoming like the fool in his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes (Proverbs 26:4-5).
If you don't do this and this and this you are not a Christian.
I believe that even in Calvinism, if you do not repent and believe in Jesus Christ, it is a sign that you are not saved, even though for the Calvinist regeneration comes first. Is it not true that repentance and faith are inevitable if one is truly saved? Therefore if you have not repented and placed your faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross, you ought to question as to whether you are one of God's elect, see 2 Corinthians 13:5. Because if you have not done so, you have definitely not been saved yet from the perspective of time.
He chooses some and not others because it brings Him glory to do so.
This kind of concept does NOT bring God glory, as a matter of fact. It makes Him out to be some kind of cosmic Monster who arbitrarily puts some in hell and then saves others so that being in hell will sting all the more. Those who go to hell do not have any choice in the matter; they are simply murdered over something that they didn't have any control over. Adam sinned and they inherited sin from Adam; and they have to pay for Adam's sin with their own burning flesh. The God who gives man free will is much more just and merciful; those who go to hell in His order have only themselves to blame: but in the Calvinistic order they can blame that god for all kinds of things: God's sovereign choice of them not having heard, God putting the tree in the garden so that inevitably Adam and Eve would partake of its fruit, God's sovereign choice of electing them to damnation so that even having heard they could not make a choice to receive Him and be saved, because it was all His choice: and therefore those who are in hell can just say to the God who put them there, that they are satisfied because he will not be able to live with himself in his conscience having murdered them, or that those whom he has chosen to live with in heaven cannot have a good conscience and therefore that evil will eventually turn in on itself and those populating heaven will end up fighting amongst themselves over wrongs that they commit against each other. Because they have no conscience.
I am not disputing this. I am asking why god would allow such variations in salvation theology since it is such a serious thing to get right.
I believe that Jesus said it best in Matthew 7:13-14 and in Jeremiah 29:13 and Deuteronomy 4:29:
Mat 7:13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Deu 4:29, But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
God wants people who will love Him for who He is; and in this He created a system in which men must seek Him with all of their hearts in order to be able to find Him.
In this way the Lord siphons out those who would be unworthy.
Last edited: